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Pakistan must reassess ties with Israel: Saleem Mandviwalla

They are not direct neighbours.

I believe Turkiye assemble's cars but don't actually produce on their own yet. If Israel really needs cheaper European cars they have plenty of options from other cheaper countries like Hungary, Czech Republic, Romania, and Bulgaria where brands like Mercedes, BMW, VW, Renault, FIAT and Skoda etc already have plants operating and manufacturing at cheaper costs. Besides, Israel is a small market. Car imports are not really a huge demand.

We may not be competitive on anything related to manufacturing but the least we can do is start establishing diplomatic channels and begin from somewhere. You can start with exporting as basic as mangoes. At least it's something and will lead you to other areas of cooperation.

We have an underrated potential nobody acknowledges. That is we have a population which is capable of speaking English. The fact that Israel's IT and other service industry is huge, our cheap costs and communication makes us an attractive partner.

I'm aware of the fact that Israel is incredibly efficient in water management. This is one of the huge things to learn from.
Israel doesn't need cheaper cars, it needs to reduce tax on cars, cars are 2-3 times more expensive in Israel than in the US.
In Israel it's normal to buy a Toyota or a Skoda at 45,000$ or more, which is insane.

Cars assembled in Turkey (Toyota i.e.) are of notably poorer quality than those assembled in Japan.
Turkish busses are good though.

Pakistan has good building materials like Onyx/marble floors
 
Wouldnt it make more sense to sort issues with before going ahead with israel its next door neighbour, and houses over billion people
Heck forget even india
Hows the trade between Pakistan and China the best friends.
And uncle sam the scapegoat is the biggest trade partner lol

Others aren't the problem its Pakistan itself which has nothing to offer to world
We have plenty of racist mass murderers we can send to Norway, not that you need any as you have enough.
 
It seems the some Arab countries and NATO bloc has promised billions $$ to establishment of Pakistan, hence tons of foreign delegation visits to US/EU/ME lately. This is highest level of treason against against public of Pakistan. Even the founder Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah sternly rejected Zionist settlements in Palestinians lands. The final verdict of Pakistanis is: There is no such thing as Israel, it's built on occupied Palestinian lands. Recognizing Israel would also mean that we give up on Kashmir.
How tho, we recognize india right
 
Disclaimer: I am not advocating for establishing relations with Israel.

For those who are asking where Israel can help us, Israel can help us a lot in IT and agriculture. Once again let me remind you that I am not advocating for establishing relations with Israel.


You sound like cherry 🍒 blossom..

He also stated that he didn’t go to GCC counties to beg for money but have to beg out of circumstances

China turns you into its vassals


Better Chinese puppet then a western puppet
 
Kashmir is an integral part of Pakistan. Palestine is NOT. These are two different issues. Pakistan should re-consider its ties with Israel, especially economic ties for it's benefit.
But Israel bombs Palestinian territory. Why trade with a fascist government. Even your passport restricts travel to Israel.
 
Considering we've got a hostile neighbor on our Western border developing nuclear weapons, it's not a bad idea.

I can get along with Indian & Iranian people just fine, but not their regimes or their nationalists. Those are no friends of Pakistanis. Quite the opposite.
 
#Bitchwa might be looking to build such ties, Pakistan and Pakistanis don't.
 
There will not a single weapon system is going to come to Pakistan from the Israel only good wishes that's the fact due to the Indian factor. As regard to the civilian technologies what Israel have got to offer to the Pakistan which Pakistan can't get it from else where. Agriculture drip technology which some people are making song and dance about is so basic even one can copy it from the You tube.
What's wrong with the Israel??????????? The list is that long probably I will fall asleep. How about Israel is occupying some one else land and its an illegal state transplanted by the US/West when Muslim countries were weak. Still making people homeless and refugees in this day and age in there own country, killing stone throwing kids giving 2 fingers to the international and UN laws and is a terrorist country. Now don't give me one sided speech or and try to sell me some Israeli version of milk and honey which I never heard before or other Jewish faith people have not told me where I live in the UK. I got no problem with the Jewish faith or Jewish people as I live in the Jewish area I got work colleagues who are Jewish but with the state of Israel yes I have a principled stance.
I don't think you understand how large Israel's high-tech sector is, anything from the world's best spying software Pegasus to lab grown meat (for example the company Future Meat Technologies) getting billions of dollars worth of investments and purchases from countries like the US, China etc. one of the densest in the world high tech sectors.
Israel ranks first in the world for both R&D intensity and researcher concentration,
It's one of the most innovative countries. Multiple multi-billion dollar start ups.

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Israel is one of the most politically influencing countries in this world.

If you think all Israel has is water drip technology you're just being naive or a fool.
 
Founder of Pakistan wasn't anti Israel because of Arab States. It was because of Israelis treatment of Palestinians even before the establishment of Israel
The Arabs also used to make tall claims against Israel. My point is... God forbid we are stranded/isolated in 2035 when all Arab nations are engaging with Israel and we will look fool by still having the same stance.

I am not asking to have fully Israeli embassy in Islamabad but just like India is engaging with Taliban now… we need to engage with Israel to have a dialogue.
 

Israel Tried To Derail Pakistan Nuclear Program In 1980s – OpEd​

January 5, 2022 Shabbir H. Kazmi 0 Comments
By Shabbir H. Kazmi

Reportedly, Israeli intelligence agency, Mossad is suspected of detonating bombs and issuing threats to German and Swiss companies in the 1980s that helped Pakistan in its nascent nuclear weapons program.
Lately, the prominent Swiss daily Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ) reported on the findings. According to the paper, “The suspicion that the Mossad might be behind the attacks and threats soon arose. For Israel, the prospect that Pakistan, for the first time, could become an Islamic state with an atomic bomb posed an existential threat.”
The paper reported that Pakistan and Iran worked closely together in the 1980s on the construction of nuclear weapons devices. According to the NZZ, the intensive work of companies from Germany and Switzerland in aiding Iran’s nuclear program “has been relatively well researched.”
The paper quoted the Swiss historian Adrian Hänni who said the Mossad was likely involved in the bomb attacks of Swiss and German companies added, there was no “smoking gun” to prove the Mossad carried out the attacks.
The Organization for the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons in South Asia, a previously unknown entity, claimed credit for the explosions in Switzerland and Germany.
The NZZ reports on the role of the late Pakistani nuclear scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan, the father of Pakistan’s atomic weapons program. He crisscrossed Europe during the 1980s to secure technology and blueprints from Western institutions and companies. The paper wrote that Khan met in a Zurich hotel with a delegation of Iran’s Organization for Atomic Energy in 1987. The Iranian delegation was led by the engineer Masud Naraghi, the chief of Iran’s nuclear energy commission.
Two German engineers, Gotthard Lerch and Heinz Mebus, along with Naraghi, who earned his PhD in the USA, met with Khan’s group in Switzerland. Additional meetings took place in Dubai.
With the fast-moving efforts by Pakistan to jumpstart its nuclear weapons program, the US government sought, without success, to get the German and Swiss governments to crack down on companies in their countries that were aiding Pakistan. Suspected Mossad agents allegedly took action in Switzerland and Germany against the companies and engineers involved in aiding Pakistan.
According to the NZZ, “A few months after the unsuccessful intervention of the US State Department in Bonn and Bern, unknown perpetrators carried out explosive attacks on three of these companies: on February 20, 1981 on the house of a leading employee of Cora Engineering Chur; on May 18, 1981 on the factory building of the Wälischmiller company in Markdorf; and finally, on November 06, 1981, on the engineering office of Heinz Mebus in Erlangen. All three attacks resulted in only property damage, only Mebus’s dog was killed.”
The paper highlighted, “The explosives attacks were accompanied by several phone calls in which strangers threatened other delivery companies in English or broken German. Sometimes the caller would order the threats to be taped. ‘The attack that we carried out against the Wälischmiller company could happen to you too’ – this is how the Leybold-Heraeus administration office was intimidated.
Siegfried Schertler, the owner of VAT at the time, and his head salesman Tinner were called several times on their private lines. Schertler also reported to the Swiss Federal Police that the Israeli secret service had contacted him. This emerges from the investigation files, which the NZZ was able to see for the first time.”
Schertler said an employee of the Israeli embassy in Germany named David, contacted the VAT executive. The company head said that David urged him to stop ‘these businesses’ regarding nuclear weapons and switch to the textile business.
Swiss and German companies derived significant profits from their business with the Khan nuclear weapons network. The NZZ reported “Many of these suppliers, mainly from Germany and Switzerland, soon entered into business worth millions with Pakistan. Leybold-Heraeus, Wälischmiller, Cora Engineering Chur, Vakuum-Apparate-Technik (VAT, with the chief buyer Friedrich Tinner) or the Buchs metal works, to name a few. They benefited from an important circumstance. The German and Swiss authorities interpreted their dual-use provisions very generously. Most of the components that are required for uranium enrichment, for example, high-precision vacuum valves, are primarily used for civil purposes.”
The NZZ reported that recently the National Security Archive in Washington published diplomatic correspondence from the US State Department from Bonn and Bern in 1980.
“This shows how the US resented the two countries’ casual handling of the delicate deliveries to Pakistan. In a note from an employee, Bern’s behavior was described as a ‘hands-off approach’ – the local authorities were accordingly accused of turning a blind eye. In the now released dispatches, which were previously classified as secret, those companies are listed for the first time that the US has accused of supporting the Pakistani nuclear weapons program with their deliveries. The list included around half a dozen companies each from Germany and Switzerland.”
 
Problem is in our duplicity we condemn killing of Israelis in Palestine

But why when myanmare do even worst genocide than Israel we supply them with more military hardware like thunder jet

I agree with saleem we need to change if we have to survive

Either condemn both or do same with Israel trade as we do with mayanmar
We trade with India who commits bigger genocide, so what?
 
Again! what is the gain here? what unique can Israel do for us that our allies cant do? We r already getting even better agricultural benefits from China through CPEC that too almost for free! in IT Huawei has its biggest regional center outside China in Islamabad, Where they r even testing and have out source a few application for their upcoming 5G too. Here they keep on testing these networks times and again. It even made it to the news too. Google it....


This is where our IT sector is heading.......And what gain u think we can get from this tiny Country of Israel? NSO group's Pegasus spyware? to pervert on little girl's mobile phones and heck and leak their data? :azn:

And on top of that they r bloody expensive. In agriculture, we are going infect are developing hybrid seeds, genetically modified seeds with the help of researchers in China. To double, triple our production. What Israel can offer, which is worth buying is their drip irrigation system. Which BTW if u dont know is already being practiced in Southern Punjab and Sindh since atleast a decade. We already have its tech. and knowledge....And few years ago under CPEC, Pakistan signed a deal to make it more efficient with a Chinese company.

Now abt my dear Israel, its an extremely small and insecure country who is just happy with making onesided relations with its fellow small GCC countries who monarchies are as insecure as it is. We know abt them since we had been playing around with them for more then 70 years.

Abt Defense, well israelis are completely in the indian camp and US camp, they aint going sell anything worthwhile in fear of aggravating their long time friend India and then they have an abnormally high American influence as well almost as if its their vessel state. And we know how they feel abt selling weapons or abt countries who try to sell to us who has either direct or indirect American input in those weapons examples r of those ATAK helicopter deal with Turkey who had American Engines as well as stopping Germany to sell us marine engines for our Chinese subs. And in the past Americans have influenced infect have practically stopped them from forget abt selling weapons to countries like china in 80s but actually in the same decade stopped them from developing their own fighter jet ie Lavi so it doesnt give competition to their f16 in international market. Lavi, if u dont know was the world only 3rd 4th gen aircraft of the time after f15 and 16. These Israelis really would have done something big, beyond their imagination with its sales rather then selling mere drones and subsystems etc and being happy and content abt it.

But Alas! their American aide was more important to them rather then their national pride, prestige as well as of the hardwork and burning midnight oil of their own countrymen. And now Pakistan has ended up buying it in the shape of its modern highly modified foam called J10.
And yes, J10 IS THE MODERN face of Lavi........Since Pak has brought it, Chinese had to share its entire project genesis to us inorder to convince us into buying it.......I dont care what these few West based ''experts'' say or these defense youtubers r saying. But the truth is that CHINA SIMPLY HAD NO EXPERIENCE WITH CONCEPT OF CANARDS OR OF DELTA DESIGNS prior to this project. Nor did their Soviet backers. So how it was able make a design which was completely different to the usual Soviet designs in the first place given Chinese aviation and even defense sector wasnt as developed back in 80s as it is today?? It was actually purchased (designs of Lavi) by Chinese. Israeli engineers even had came to China to physically being there to guide them and modifying that design of Lavi into its new evolution ie J10.


And now Pak has got it on deferred payments, meaning u pay them when u can! AGAIN ALMOST FOR FREE! for better CPEC protection since india got Rafales. When a design which is extremely new, build by an aviation complex which had not much of a prior exp with such a complex design ie canard-delta and unstable design.....and it gets brought up buy a proper modern experienced airforce like Pakistan's who has successful air to air kills exp. even against its inventors, a country who now also has a taste of the modern, highly complex air to air kills exp in highly saturated EW/ECM, EO/IO, jamming environment of the modern warfare ie op. swift retort 2019, but still ends up buying it that too to counter an aircraft like Rafale which is selling like hot cakes in market.......

Then it truly shows how good that Lavi could have been had Israelis persisted with it. And given the fact they made it in early 80s. Then seeing its sales, success, Pakistan could have even recognized them way back in 80s or 90s or in 2000s. Because that was that real gain i was talking abt which was worth and could have been realistically justifiable to the people of Pakistan.

But Israel is Israel, its insecurity and small size gets them played by other countries in the west.


Israel really really needs to become an independent country first! If it really wishes to impress a country like ours which is 5th largest in terms of population with 223 million, a fastest growing nuke power, and yes its a nuke power now, a country which has what 4th or 5th largest arsenal of nukes in the whole wide world? That aint a country with mere nukes anymore. And a power which have slayed two superpowers in Afghanistan! The latter by using its own money and expertise against them! So much so that they had to run away being humiliated here and their tails b/w their legs before the due date of September 11 2021, because somebody had wrongfully planted this in their ears that Pakistan is about to close down their supply lines again due to their constant delays.:lol:

And Israelis,,,,, well yr an ally and depend on a superpower as amateur as that! which btw is also in decline This something, that they themselves need to think abt. But the bitter truth is that it takes a man like me, who is foreigner, shares nothing in common with them or even recognizes them as a legitimate country is telling them that today! But is telling only because its also an ideological country as ours and hence its existence justifies ours as well on the World map, hence a soft corner for them...... This is really really shameful if think abt how much these jews r educated, aware, knowledgeable and sophisticated on their own. But even a Country like theirs can be played by taking advantages of its insecurities, security concerns and above all its small size!

So these things, these relations with other US laky countries in GCC or in Balkans like Albania/Bosnia which are equally insecure if not more, this wont impress us since these benefits they r getting from israel in return arnt for the crude reason of benefitting their own people and for their national development rather r for only ensuring that the monarchies in those countries stay in power in times to come.

So the only realistic way to recognized by a country like Pakistan is to agree to what Pakistan has been saying all along ie GO BACK TO THE BODERS OF PRE 1967 WAR, LET PALESTIANIANS ALSO MAKE THEIR HOMELAND AND COUNTRY, BOTH RECOGNIZING EACHOTHER AND ENSURE THE CONTINUED EXISTENCE AND RESPECTING OF OUR RIGHT TO OUR 3RD HOLLIEST SIGHT IN ISLAM. THEN PAKISTAN CAN ALSO RECOGNIZE AND LEGITIMIZE THESE 2 COUNTRIES AS WELL... Afterall its about them not about us. only 45 out of a total of 223+ countries in the world recognize Israel in the first place.


And for Israel specially, try to mend yr relations with China, and finding common ground with them and by extension with Russia too. Find friendships and alliances within this continent where u live and where u belong! and work towards the betterment of Asia itself instead of working with those who r against this resurgence of Asiatic Country back into the Global forefront!

Think about what can be more beneficial for yr own country instead of trying to find common grounds with extra regional and extra continental nations to satisfy yr false sense of insecurity, security. You already r powerful enough, yr country is secured there is no need to live the life of a spider. Find common ground with Asiatic powers in this very continent where u belong just as all of us! not with the interests of Europe, North America to ensure their continued dominance in the world!

@Beny Karachun @Zaki read this post, but plz read it fully...i made several points here. It might interest u guys.
 
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PPP Senator Saleem Mandviwalla on Saturday said Pakistan must reassess its ties with Israel and take the deal that is in its own best interest.

Mandviwalla, whose party is a part of the government, said: "We should not stop dialogue and trade with any country. People criticise Israel [but] we have to look after our own interests."

He said all the Middle East nations were negotiating and trading with Israel, adding that Pakistan must also do what suits its own interest.

Similarly, he indicated that the door for dialogue should not be closed on Pakistan's immediate neighbours, including India. "We have a border with India. Families live here. All three countries (India, Iran and Afghanistan) are important to us."

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@waz @muhammadhafeezmalik @Jungibaaz @RescueRanger @Areesh @Zarvan @Jango @Patriot forever @ziaulislam @Ssan @SIPRA @Beny Karachun @dani191 @sammuel @Zaki @Wood @HRK @PakSword @VCheng @ghazi52 @Ghazwa-e-Hind @Indus Falcon @Indus Pakistan @koolio @Verve @Dual Wielder @El Sidd @Falcon26
Zardari love cinema owners and this Mandiwala used to own a cinema in Karachi and now ....filthy rich ... just like Zardari father use to black tickets outside cinema .
 
Kashmir is an integral part of Pakistan. Palestine is NOT. These are two different issues. Pakistan should re-consider its ties with Israel, especially economic ties for it's benefit.
what economic benefit can we get? i dont see any.... care to explain?
 

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