Pakistan has offered Afghanistan US $20 million for training of ANSF

[RescueRanger]

WOW, the hatred towards Pakistan is disgusting here... I was going to walk away when i saw children acting like children but i just want to show the hate mongers on both sides the different side the Af-Pak military relations:

A Pakistani Officers perspective of closer Afghan / Pakistani cooperation for defeating IED threats:
"A lot of people think there is a rift between our two countries; there isn't," said Flight Lt. Akhtar Abbas of the Pakistan air force. "The leaders might not always agree with this or that, but we are working together towards the same goal -- to eliminate the insurgents and IEDs from here in Afghanistan and in Pakistan."

The following are pictures taken in 2010 at Bagram Air Field during a JOINT U.S. /Afghan/Pakistan EOD training exercise: (all photo's belong to Task Force Paladin):

Measuring "seat of the blast" = Post Blast Investigation

Post Blast Investigation: Examination of pressure plate and evidence collection.

Afghan Army EOD Technician - Rendering an IED safe.

US Instructors demonstrating a scenario to their Pakistani students.

The Pakistani EOD program, which began in 1967, instituted an IED speciality program in the early 2000s to keep current with ever-changing threats. Pakistan is hoping to strengthen and expand the current program through training and dialog with U.S. EOD personnel.

"We have been achieving small successes over the past seven or eight years, but it hasn't been well organized," said Maj. Imran Javaid, Pakistan Corps of Engineers. "I think these training opportunities will enhance our capabilities and efficiency, which will enable us to quantify the probability of success."

This mutual conclusion resulted in the first counter-IED training event between U.S. and Pakistani forces, Ges said.

"These are 12 of the best Pakistani EOD operators that they have. We found very quickly that they are very competent. They know their stuff, and are very professional,"

- Training Team Lead: Watson

Read more at: DVIDS - News - U.S., Pakistani forces combine to counter common enemy

 

[Neptune]

I disagree here. How do you say that the co-ed Turkish Harp Okuls Academy is much 'superior'? You seem to have no idea about The National Defence Academy in India which is one of the finest and the only defence academy in the world imparting joint training for all three services after which there is specialised training at respective Army/Navy/Air Force academies.

Scores of cadets from countries across the world are imparted training here since inception.

So please don't make sweeping statements!

Turkish War Colleges are the primary officer academies. But War Academies can't be compared with any Asian nation.

I was in Heybeliada Naval school, and been in Navy War College and Navy War Academy due to official visits and projects. There were cadets mostly from US, UK, Pakistan, South Korea, Netherlands, France, Spain, Italy. I'm not counting the dozens of other nations. Just don't swim in dreams.

Besides the PhD level War Academies, we already have a Joint Forces Academies, but only NATO participations are approved. I can go on all the day with our training doctrines.

 

[Armstrong]

Well sir much has change since than.I hope you might agree with me as i know much more than you about FATA than you do.

back in 2004 when nek muhammad Wazir was killed in my village baka khel wazir people were shouting anti pakistan and army slogans.

But they have seen what kind of barbarian ttp's are.

Today or (infact even in 2009 when Bait ullah mehsud was killed).I just can't tell you that the local uneducated people were happy about his death.Despite the fact that he was born and raised in bannu.has still his brothers in bannu(one of them killed a couple of months after his death in bannu,He was the owner of Global computer in Bannu and dera ismail khan)
The hate for the Talibans is much much more than Pakistan state or army.

We are minority in Pakistan.And i am sure you must know that under democracy majority is the authority.and one should always respect the mandate of people.

But still even being less than 15% of Pakistan population they presence in army as of the official estimate is 22% while there are sources even indicating more than 30%.

Ghulam ishaq khan from bannu was president of Pakistan for 6 long years and ayub khan for 9years.But leave it.

Yes we do have Problems but we are minority in our own country while your majority in your country but still the country is occupied by tajiks/uzbeks.

Well we certainly care about the afghan pashtuns(atleast i do care about the karlani pashtuns in afghanistan) and i know what they are upto.today half of khost lives in bannu.some sources shows that pashtun population is strongly decreasing and might decrease to below 30% within this decade as they are moving to balochistan.

i was watching Ayaz wazir program.Where he was asked what would you prefer for FATA?being a new province or merged with KPK?

He said if we form new province under Qablistan name i am sure within only few years millions of afghan pashtuns will move to qablistan and get the local domicile and later Pakistani citizenship

He said if we merged it with KPK under referendum,all the adjacent states within Afghanistan will also be declared disputed or pakistani territory and than it will depend it on Pakistan whether to take them by force or Go to UN.

He said all though i prefer its mergence with KPK but Pakistan should give off the disputed claim as all the pashtuns dominated region within Afghanistan are as good as DUD.and are of no significance.

best of luck but Don't pretend that your something super duper

(i) Why ? (for the bold part)

(ii) How ? (for the green part)

(iii) When has Pakistan claimed any Afghan territory on the other side of the Durand Line ? (for the red part)

(iv) When have we made Pukhtoons feel like a minority in Pakistan ? (for the blue part)

Wrror, teriii baatooon neiii dilll tooor diyaaa !

 

[farhan_9909]

(i) Why ? (for the bold part)

(ii) How ? (for the green part)

(iii) When has Pakistan claimed any Afghan territory on the other side of the Durand Line ? (for the red part)

(iv) When have we made Pukhtoons feel like a minority in Pakistan ? (for the blue part)

Wrror, teriii baatooon neiii dilll tooor diyaaa !

Bold part=Well sir i do have soft heart for atleast the karlani pashtuns..There are very less karlani pashtuns in Afghanistan and very close the pak afghan border.i have many relatives in khost.and they are not like the persianized pashtuns in internet we see.

Blue part=No but i was just giving him a example that even being minority(community wise) we still have alot of say in Pakistan.Pashto might not be the national language but so is the punjabi.

Urdu is common for all which we are very happy to accept

the minority word was only used as an example

Red part:on 1dec 2013 in an interview with ayaz wazir,the Geo anchor quoted pakistan constitution which included that if Referrendum of FATA or merger is done with Pakistan.Pakistan will have not only FATA but the historic Beyond Fata region within Afghanistan which include many afghanistan provinces such as khost upto nangahar and parts of kandahar.

The program was most probably after 9PM.the anchor is a famous anchor in geo tv but i dont know his name

 

[Armstrong]

Bold part=Well sir i do have soft heart for atleast the karlani pashtuns..There are very less karlani pashtuns in Afghanistan and very close the pak afghan border.i have many relatives in khost.and they are not like the persianized pashtuns in internet we see.

Blue part=No but i was just giving him a example that even being minority(community wise) we still have alot of say in Pakistan.Pashto might not be the national language but so is the punjabi.

Urdu is common for all which we are very happy to accept

the minority word was only used as an example

Red part:on 1dec 2013 in an interview with ayaz wazir,the Geo anchor quoted pakistan constitution which included that if Referrendum of FATA or merger is done with Pakistan.Pakistan will have not only FATA but the historic Beyond Fata region within Afghanistan which include many afghanistan provinces such as khost upto nangahar and parts of kandahar.

The program was most probably after 9PM.the anchor is a famous anchor in geo tv but i dont know his name

Dunno yaaar you're one of a kind !

Every other Tribal that I've met (from Bajaur to Darra Adam Khel) & I've met quite a few Tribal Pukhtoons with some of them even being my family members, they don't like Afghans at all !

I'm a Kashmiri - we're less than 3% of Pakistan - never called myself a minority !

Neither should you - We're all Pakistanis....no minority...no majority !

I dunno I'd check that interview but I don't see how or why there would be a Referendum in FATA seeing that the different Jirgas in FATA decided to join Pakistan so...so many years ago here read this : Soon after Independence, the various tribes in the region entered into an agreement with the government of Pakistan, pledging allegiance to the newly created state. Some 30 instruments of accession were subsequently signed, cementing this arrangement. To the tribal agencies of Khyber, Kurram, North Waziristan and South Waziristan were later added Mohmand Agency (in 1951), and Bajaur and Orakzai (in 1973).
Accession did not subsume the political autonomy of the tribes. The instruments of accession, signed in 1948, granted the tribal areas a special administrative status. Except where strategic considerations dictated, the tribal areas were allowed to retain their semi-autonomous status, exercising administrative authority based on tribal codes and traditional institutions. This unique system, given varying degrees of legal cover in each of the country earlier constitutions, was crystallized in Pakistan Constitution of 1973. ( History of FATA )

 

[farhan_9909]

Dunno yaaar you're one of a kind !

Every other Tribal that I've met (from Bajaur to Darra Adam Khel) & I've met quite a few Tribal Pukhtoons with some of them even being my family members, they don't like Afghans at all !

I'm a Kashmiri - we're less than 3% of Pakistan - never called myself a minority !

Neither should you - We're all Pakistanis....no minority...no majority !

I dunno I'd check that interview but I don't see how or why there would be a Referendum in FATA seeing that the different Jirgas in FATA decided to join Pakistan so...so many years ago here read this : Soon after Independence, the various tribes in the region entered into an agreement with the government of Pakistan, pledging allegiance to the newly created state. Some 30 instruments of accession were subsequently signed, cementing this arrangement. To the tribal agencies of Khyber, Kurram, North Waziristan and South Waziristan were later added Mohmand Agency (in 1951), and Bajaur and Orakzai (in 1973).
Accession did not subsume the political autonomy of the tribes. The instruments of accession, signed in 1948, granted the tribal areas a special administrative status. Except where strategic considerations dictated, the tribal areas were allowed to retain their semi-autonomous status, exercising administrative authority based on tribal codes and traditional institutions. This unique system, given varying degrees of legal cover in each of the country earlier constitutions, was crystallized in Pakistan Constitution of 1973. ( History of FATA )

Ofcourse i don't consider myself a minority.the minority word was used as a example

And not only afghan's but i don't even hate Indians.yaar we should not hate a complete country just because of few retarded trolls.

I am a Pakistani first and than a Pashtuns.And i feel proud to say so.
As earlier said i may have soft heart for Afghan pashtuns but to me a Pakistani hindu/christian/jews or any other minority only if they are pakistanis are more closer to me than a muslim from afghanistan or India or KSA.

Pakistan sab se pehle




About the FATA part.i will confirm it later.i clearly remember he quoted from the constitution of pakistan

 

[Armstrong]

Ofcourse i don't consider myself a minority.the minority word was used as a example

And not only afghan's but i don't even hate Indians.yaar we should not hate a complete country just because of few retarded trolls.

I am a Pakistani first and than a Pashtuns.And i feel proud to say so.
As earlier said i may have soft heart for Afghan pashtuns but to me a Pakistani hindu/christian/jews or any other minority only if they are pakistanis are more closer to me than a muslim from afghanistan or India or KSA.

Pakistan sab se pehle




About the FATA part.i will confirm it later.i clearly remember he quoted from the constitution of pakistan

Yeah I just saw that interview !

 

[farhan_9909]

Yeah I just saw that interview !

so what does he mean by that?

i mean either pakistan will have to take the land back or do what?

 

[Armstrong]

so what does he mean by that?

i mean either pakistan will have to take the land back or do what?

No I don't think that it means taking back that land - All it meant was that the Princely States or Federating Units who'd want to be included in Pakistan as Provinces would have the right to do so !

 

[OrionHunter]

Turkish War Colleges are the primary officer academies. But War Academies can't be compared with any Asian nation.

I was in Heybeliada Naval school, and been in Navy War College and Navy War Academy due to official visits and projects. There were cadets mostly from US, UK, Pakistan, South Korea, Netherlands, France, Spain, Italy. I'm not counting the dozens of other nations. Just don't swim in dreams.

Besides the PhD level War Academies, we already have a Joint Forces Academies, but only NATO participations are approved. I can go on all the day with our training doctrines.

Your listing out a handful of training establishments in Turkey doesn't prove the point. Do you want me to list out the 42 training establishments in India where scores of foreign students are imparted training too?

The point I'm trying to make is that in no way can they be compared as the methodology of training, tactics, strategy, doctrines etc are based on threat perceptions and geostrategic compulsions of their regions. However, basic training at cadet level remains generally the same.

So someone making blanket statements that your training academies are far better is nothing but baloney brought out by ignorance.

And most importantly, what experience does the Turkish Army have in fighting conventional wars and COIN ops (after WWII)? India has fought five conventional wars (Including Kargil which was restricted to a particular theater only) and more than 50 years of COIN ops. The Indians have experience of fighting in jungles, mountains, high altitude and snowbound areas, deserts, riverine terrain etc. What experience does the Turkish Army have? Except for sending a few contingents here and there, they have none!

And that my friend makes all the difference. The Indian Armed forces ain't paper tigers! They actually have fought wars unlike the Turkish Army. Experience in battle is the best training for the next war, which the Turkish army doesn't have.

(And don't bring in WWII is its ancient history. And Indian forces have fought there too!)

 

[pakistani342]

What $20 million can buy:

1. At $100,000 a piece: 200 scholarships at the Masters level for Pakistani students in the US at top schools -- more if they are spread between Europe, the US, Japan, Korea, Turkey and China.
2. Most of these students would find support for PhD programs at their Universities so you get 200 PhDs for free.
3. A good percentage of these folks will come back and end up being faculty or take up senior positions in industry
4. A small percentage will stay on in their host countries and well help in other ways
5. A small percentage will succeed as entrepreneurs creating jobs in their host countries and Pakistan.

--OR--

Possibly spent on people who are viscerally hostile to Pakistan.

Tough choice no?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Actually

Pakistanis can train 20,000 students Locally in best universities in Pakistan for 100,000 usd

but the question is who is giving them 20 million ... Universities in Pakistan get nothing