Iran: A "Role Model" For Pakistan To Get Self-Reliance in Defence

[MastanKhan]

Iran has oil, Pakistan got nothing. I dont know what will happen once oil runs out. I am seriously thinking of Bio-Diesel like everybody else.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---without oil---Iran would be a nobody---.

 

[Yazp]

@Serpentine, @Horus, @Oscar or any other admin, I'd recommend you close this thread since it's another Pakistan-Iran flame war.

 

[Viper0011.]

Iran has oil, Pakistan got nothing. I dont know what will happen once oil runs out. I am seriously thinking of Bio-Diesel like everybody else.

Iran's oil has nothing to do with Pakistan, the only thing is, its cheaper, without the travel costs. That doesn't mean Pakistan can't get oil from Saudi or Qatar lol. Second, Pakistan has the second or third largest reserves of Shale oil, then Gold, Iron and other minerals AND add a huge growing economy (services based due to Gawader and Central Russian States and Western China). Pakistan is on her way to be in the top 15 economies in the next about 10 years.

When Oil runs out, Pakistan can use its Shale gas reserves as its in the top ten globally

 

[B+ Dracula]

When Oil runs out, Pakistan can use its Shale gas reserves as its in the top ten globally

Shale Gas will take 20 years to finally turn as reality, otherwise its very expensive and major cause of Environmental Pollution of underground water

 

[Viper0011.]

Shale Gas will take 20 years to finally turn as reality, otherwise its very expensive and major cause of Environmental Pollution of underground water

Says who? If it was SO environment unfriendly, you can be sure there would've been serious protests inside US and Canada.......its collected from the sand through deforming and breaking sand particles with expensive machinery.

Its just expensive right now as it started not to long ago. In like 3-4 years from now, more ways and machinery will be invented by others, which would make it cheaper (economies of scale). Pakistan did that big contract with Qartar with a frozen gas price for 15 years so Pakistan is god for now.
The remainder of the needs can be fulfilled from other places like Iran or Arab countries. Iran is almost out of sanctions so Pakistan can trade with them when its official. But if need be, if Pakistan got into Shale gas in like 5 years, you could cut the machinery's cost down by 30-40% due to constant change in technology and better, cheaper, faster ways keep coming to the market.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Says who? If it was SO environment unfriendly, you can be sure there would've been serious protests inside US and Canada.......its collected from the sand through deforming and breaking sand particles with expensive machinery.

Its just expensive right now as it started not to long ago. In like 3-4 years from now, more ways and machinery will be invented by others, which would make it cheaper (economies of scale). Pakistan did that big contract with Qartar with a frozen gas price for 15 years so Pakistan is god for now.
The remainder of the needs can be fulfilled from other places like Iran or Arab countries. Iran is almost out of sanctions so Pakistan can trade with them when its official. But if need be, if Pakistan got into Shale gas in like 5 years, you could cut the machinery's cost down by 30-40% due to constant change in technology and better, cheaper, faster ways keep coming to the market.

I pray for sweet Chocolate in your mouth, but after following Engineer TTA (niaz) in many months old thread i just came to know that its good in Long-term as Future Project but in Current State of Mind...when Country demands instant fulfillment of need and close management better is to avoid it completely ......He also suggested that, it involve huge deal of technicalities with Costly(in millions$) Mechanical Devices before conducting initial digging and he proposed LAND around Arabian Sea water to conduct its initial feasibility so that it wont pollute underground Water channels
@niaz

Am i right??

 

[Viper0011.]

I pray for sweet Chocolate in your mouth, but after following Engineer TTA (niaz) in many months old thread i just came to know that its good in Long-term as Future Project but in Current State of Mind...when Country demands instant fulfillment of need and close management better is to avoid it completely ......He also suggested that, it involve huge deal of technicalities with Costly(in millions$) Mechanical Devices before conducting initial digging and he proposed LAND around Arabian Sea water to conduct its initial feasibility so that it wont pollute underground Water channels
@niaz

Am i right??

I am saying the same thing......for Pakistan, when she'd need these reserves, in like 5-7 years, the technology would've improved and would've become cheaper so it won't be an issue. Next, the Shale extraction should always happen on the surface, and away from any clean water channel. You don't want sand mixed in clean water. That's the only small issue. The main issue is the tech being very expensive and it'll become cheaper over time

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

Lol. I wouldn't call Iran role model. If you want a role model, use jf-17 thunder. After sanctions, Iranians could not use western equipement because they did not have the spare parts or munitions. They tried reverse engineer planes and tanks from the time of Shah. Honestly, Pakistan Armed Forces are better equipped and don't need a downgrade.

 

[niaz]

Hafis Sb I doubt facts show different story Iran ahd huge investment by British/Euorpean firms in the past, they had strong ties with Russia. Now they are cooperating with USA in Iraq but blaming KSA as supporter of Israel.

Yeas as per thread I am agreed that Iran has survived through tough phases with limited help of China/Russia and Irani Pros coming back from West to their country. Some of their defensive equipment is really challenging and state of Art like Air Defense SAMS, Radars and Helos but not in the field of fighter jets and Tanks. If we give them credit to keep F14s and F4s operational than almost in same position Pak has kept its Mirages operational and have done some miracles in nuclear field.

Both countries could have got more benefit from each other however Iran's limited radical agenda and tilt towards India were obstacles, still Iran wants to get maximum benefit from Pak but also attacking Pak border areas.


I am involved in public dealings for about a decade and have seen that mostly Shias were supportive to PPP, they hate Rana Sanaullah especially and PML-N. Now in Punjab they are mostly supporting PTI.

AAA.
Being familiar with Punjab, I can say for certain that even the most optimistic estimates would put Shia population to be less than 25%. PPP literally swept Punjab clean in the 1970 elections, it couldn’t do so if only Shia’ supported it. Except for the politico religious parties such as Jamaat Islami, JUP, JUI, Tehreek Jaffria etc., no large party in Pakistan is either exclusively Sunni or Shia.

Rana Sanaullah has soft spot for SSP & Lashkar Jhangvi who kills Shias and I can understand that he would be hated by the Shias. PPP is in fact a secular party. Look at the stalwarts of PPP in Punjab such as Aitzaz Hasan, Sadiq Husain Qureshi, GM Khar, Yusuf Raza Gilani, Raza Rabbani, Hussain Haqqani etc. And you would find them mostly Sunni.

BBB.

There are still a few Sunnis in Iran in Kurdish area, the South & in Iranin Baluchistan. I have a very close Sunni Irani friend and it is no doubt true that Sunni cannot progress in government jobs beyond middle management level.
Regrettably, in Saudi Arabia Shia’s fare even worse. All the oil wealth lies in the Easter Saudi Arabia but all the investment is taking place in the Red Sea. Iran like Saudi Arabia is a theocratic state. However one wrong does not justify Iran’s’ treatment of her Sunni population.

I have come to the conclusion most Muslims suffer from religious/ sectarian bigotry to a greater or lesser extent. For example I have always maintained that one’s religion & sect is an accident of birth and one should not be judged by it. I also know of a few Saudi Wahhabis who are very nice people, nevertheless even a liberal such as I, finds it hard to be totally free of anti-Wahhabi prejudice.

However I find that most of my countrymen are really obsessed with the religion & sect.

 

[niaz]

I pray for sweet Chocolate in your mouth, but after following Engineer TTA (niaz) in many months old thread i just came to know that its good in Long-term as Future Project but in Current State of Mind...when Country demands instant fulfillment of need and close management better is to avoid it completely ......He also suggested that, it involve huge deal of technicalities with Costly(in millions$) Mechanical Devices before conducting initial digging and he proposed LAND around Arabian Sea water to conduct its initial feasibility so that it wont pollute underground Water channels
@niaz

Am i right??

In addition to the lack of economic resources; Pakistan’s problem is ethnic rivalry and that many in Pakistan still consider themselves more as Pashtun, Sindhi, Punjabi, Mahajir & Baluchi and not as Pakistani. Can you imagine that in the 21st Century Pakistan people are dragged out of Busses and shot simply because they were not Baluchi and / or because they were Shia on their way home to Gilgit!

Until such time that Fracking technology is able to use brackish water, Pakistan’s’ tight gas reserves would not be exploited. Until such time that Baluch Sardars start thinking like a Pakistani, Rekodiq Gold & Copper reserves will remain under ground. Until such time that Pashtuns & Sindhi nationalists keep their opposition to Kala Bagh Dam, Pakistan’s water resources will remain unexploited. TTP will be controlled but until such time Salafi/Wahhabi/Takfiri section of the population stops supporting SSP & LeJ, sectarian killings in Pakistan will continue and resulting Law & order problem will continue impeding Pakistan’s march towards progress.

International sanctions forced Iran to move towards innovation but Iran’s Self Reliance is a myth. Pakistan never had the immense oil wealth that Iran has (largest gas reserves & 2nd or 3rd largest oil reserves in the world!); despite this Iran can never be a role model for Pakistan. Main reason being that Pakistan has larger pool of scientists & engineers than Iran.

What Pakistan needs is at least 10 years of interprovincial & Shia/Sunni harmony. My hero Iqbal correctly declared:

“Zara nam ho to ye mitti bahaut zarkkhaise hai saaqi”. Meaning ours is a very fertile soil; all it needs is a little water.

 

[xyxmt]

Sir . . . You might be right to say Iranian Tanks, Submaries, and Tanks a 2nd generation Arsnel . . . But also have an insight into their struggle and efforts into Self-Reliance . . . Its Not worth that they are 2nd generation arsnel BUT I intend to mention their ambitions and efforts which they are making to attain self-reliance in defence production . . . Whereas We the Pakistanis have 7th Largest Aircraft Industry ie PAC, Kamra But NOT YET indigeniously manufacturing any single Aircraft . . . For you kind info . . . PAC Kamra (AMF) made "Mushshak" and "Super Mushshak" both are JUST assembled in AMF, PAC Kamra by importing its Avionics and engine from abroad.

one has to be real real real stupid to manufacture something from ground up. this is 21st century anything that you are going to make is already available somewhere at 1/4th the cost of new production. There are only few countries who are producing aircraft Engines do you expect Pakistan at this stage to produce jet engine. You have to economically be 20 times as big as you are now in order to take up that massive challenge

 

[Abii]

In iran sunnis cant even pray in their own mosques while Pakistan remains to date the ONLY sunni majority country to have Elected shia leaders

Yes they can. Don't pull shit out of your ***.

 

[Zibago]

Yes they can. Don't pull shit out of your ***.

You cant have sunni only mosques in Iran

 

[xyxmt]

Until such time that Fracking technology is able to use brackish water, Pakistan’s’ tight gas reserves would not be exploited. Until such time that Baluch Sardars start thinking like a Pakistani, Rekodiq Gold & Copper reserves will remain under ground. Until such time that Pashtuns & Sindhi nationalists keep their opposition to Kala Bagh Dam, Pakistan’s water resources will remain unexploited. TTP will be controlled but until such time Salafi/Wahhabi/Takfiri section of the population stops supporting SSP & LeJ, sectarian killings in Pakistan will continue and resulting Law & order problem will continue impeding Pakistan’s march towards progress.

I dont think anyone in Sind gives a damn about dams, least the Sindhi politician who dont even give a damn about Sindhi people. Neither any ordinary Pathan will have any objection to Kalabagh damn. Its special interest groups only and unfortunately most of our political parties are just a special interest groups. To stop Kalabagh Damn India has spent a lot of money mostly in the pockets of political leadership (if you still call them leaders). The only reason Kashmir issue is still alive and politician have not traded it for money is the fear of Army...but then again I regret Army for being so quiet and inactive on an issue so critical to Pakistan's existence...water...no future without it....you wont build damns and soon you will loose rights to that water...that is the Indus water treaty.

 

[Abii]

You cant have sunni only mosques in Iran

What is a sunni only mosque? Like if a shia or a Christian wants to walk in, you're gonna block him b/c it's a sunni only mosque? That concept doesn't even make any sense to me.

Are you talking about a mosque with only sunni imams? They have those in Sunni areas. WTF is your issue then?