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@sancho @Abingdonboy Is that a catapult on the old Vikrant?


Off topic, I wish we would bomb chittagong and cox bazar again..I want to see burning lungis. :frown:
 
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It's just a shame that almost all the knowledge of operating such CATOBAR configured ACCs has been almost entirely lost by the IN now.

Btw have your checked out the Small Diameter bomb (the 2nd variant) and spice-250, we need such weapons (specially the former) if we are going to induct a LO/VLO fighter in the future for strike role in the navy.
 
Btw have your checked out the Small Diameter bomb (the 2nd variant) and spice-250, we need such weapons (specially the former) if we are going to induct a LO/VLO fighter in the future for strike role in the navy.

Yeah I've checked some of these out. AFAIK such weapons should be part of the Rafale and Super MKI weapon's packages and maybe even the M2k's in the future.
 
Yeah I've checked some of these out. AFAIK such weapons should be part of the Rafale and Super MKI weapon's packages and maybe even the M2k's in the future.

That is true but such weapons specially become relevant for fighters operating off carriers without catapults. Since there are certain payload penalties so a lighter weapon which can do the job just as efficiently makes sense. AND specially for LO/VLO fighters since their internal weapon bays are not exactly spacious as such due to the small dimensions of such weapons. Even an F-35 can carry up to 8 SDB-2s along with 2 AMRAAMs.
 
That is true but such weapons specially become relevant for fighters operating off carriers without catapults. Since there are certain payload penalties so a lighter weapon which can do the job just as efficiently makes sense. AND specially for LO/VLO fighters since their internal weapon bays are not exactly spacious as such due to the small dimensions of such weapons. Even an F-35 can carry up to 8 SDB-2s along with 2 AMRAAMs.

I was actually speaking to a (former) Harrier pilots about the weight penalty of weapons vs fuel (and as a result range) and (because of the way I had asked the Q) he used the Indian context- he said that he was aware the MIG-29K the IN has have buddy-buddy refueling pods so you can get an entire flight taking off with minimal fuel but a (relatively) high weapons load and then refuel off a "tanker" "K" and go onto the mission with both the range and weapons it needs. An example of tactics overcoming operational challenges. I was already pretty confident about this but thought I'd share this.


But anyway what I'd be interested in would be how these Small diameter bombs and the likes of SPICE-250s can cut operational costs as the way I understand it now, on a carrier a fighter can take off with a full weapons load but it cannot land with a full load of weapons due to the strain this will place on the arrestor cables. As a result carrier fighters often have to eject literally millions of dollars worth of unspent ordinance into the sea and you can imagine what a waste this is of resources. Now certain future ACCs look to get around this with improved arrestor cables that can withstand greater loads. I'm just not sure whether India will get this tech. But if you have smaller diameter weapons that can achieve the same devastation down-range as a larger,less accurate, weapon but can lead to a dramatic saving in operational costs as a fighter can land with a full load of these smaller bombs then this is a MAJOR plus!
 
IF that were to be true and IF we seriously considered such an offer what sort of issues would arise in terms of excessive fleet diversity and lack of commonality, logistics, maintainability? Also in light of the Hornet International road map (picture and video provided below) what would be the benefits if any? Its all highly speculative but Sancho seemed to be convinced that the Americans would lay forth such a condition.

It all depends on where IN's priority lies. If they want commonality, they will go for a 60000+ t STOBAR carrier, similar to IAC 1, take additional N-LCAs or Mig 29Ks until N-FGFA will be ready.
That maximise common training, weapons, systems and spares, with the most capable carrier fighter as well.
However, for the best carrier operations they need catapults, which means they have to take completelly new fighters without commonality (no Rafale M doesn't mean commonality, because IN don't operate it or it's system on another carrier, so has no experience with it).
The Super Hornet makes only sense with upgrades, be it additional senors and if possible more thrust, but most important will be the CFTs and the weapon pod. Since that will give it a clear advantage against most non stealth fighters. In operational terms the SH might also be less effected by restrictions than the F35 and that should make it easier to operate it for IN, not to mention the more reasonable costs.

The long term solution however must be a naval AMCA and it's worrisome how less importance IN, MoD, or even ADA/DRDO/HAL gives it!



Not in future, but as soon as it's available! The 737 platform is not designed for low altitude ASW attacks, which is why such operations will effect the life of the airframe. That's why the USN wanted such developments, to make the launch of torpedos possible from high altitides, or why they didn't opted for the MAD (afaik the Australians neither).
 
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That's why the USN wanted such developments, to make the launch of torpedos possible from high altitides, or why they didn't opted for the MAD (afaik the Australians neither).

And yet the IN did?

(at considerable cost)
 
Bracing myself for the onslaught from @sancho!

No need too, since I think it will be a combined deal too, but I don't think they will make it dependable on how many of these aircrafts we buy, because they don't have to. They know that if we go for catapults, we will go for E-2D anyway, since there is no other comparable option. The S70 is possible, but not a necessity and imo will mainly depend on the changes of their restrictions wrt licence production under ToT. The V22 is one of my favourites, but I don't see it coming because of the costs.
The Growler will neither be available for us, nor is it that important if we could have the Rafale, since most of the capabilities are already available with SPECTRA and you only would need to add a high power jamming pod (Indian, Israeli or Russian) and even if the US won't approve the Growler, it is more likely that we can customize it with some additional Israeli stuff, than changing anything at the F35.

Btw, I am currently think trying to get more infos on the NH90 and a possibility of a NG varient of it, with the Eurocopter X3 changes. We might have to fund it, but it would be a hell of a helicopter!

And yet the IN did?

(at considerable cost)


They seems to see it as an importance, but I still hope that we get a higher number of prop engined MRMR aircrafts, with better low altitude performance, which will complement the P8s at high altitude.
 
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It all depends on where IN's priority lies. If they want commonality, they will go for a 60000+ t STOBAR carrier, similar to IAC 1, take additional N-LCAs or Mig 29Ks until N-FGFA will be ready.
That maximise common training, weapons, systems and spares, with the most capable carrier fighter as well.
However, for the best carrier operations they need catapults, which means they have to take completelly new fighters without commonality (no Rafale M doesn't mean commonality, because IN don't operate it or it's system on another carrier, so has no experience with it).
The Super Hornet makes only sense with upgrades, be it additional senors and if possible more thrust, but most important will be the CFTs and the weapon pod. Since that will give it a clear advantage against most non stealth fighters. In operational terms the SH might also be less effected by restrictions than the F35 and that should make it easier to operate it for IN, not to mention the more reasonable costs.

The long term solution however must be a naval AMCA and it's worrisome how less importance IN, MoD, or even ADA/DRDO/HAL gives it!




Not in future, but as soon as it's available! The 737 platform is not designed for low altitude ASW attacks, which is why such operations will effect the life of the airframe. That's why the USN wanted such developments, to make the launch of torpedos possible from high altitides, or why they didn't opted for the MAD (afaik the Australians neither).

The growth plan for the hornet is impressive, internal IRST, internal missile approach warning system, 3000 pounds of aviation fuel in CFTs with zero net gain in drag, LO weapons pod. Its impressive to say the least.

Btw I have been collating data from Gambit sir, Oscar, and Prasun Sengupta on the Barak-2/interceptors in general and carrier ops. Turns out I was right about persistent BARCAPs being flows..turns out they are flown at a distance of 200 nautical miles from the CBG and in the direction from where an attack is likely to originate. Also turns out that the Barak can intercept high supersonic/hyper-sonic inbounds, which didn't surpirse me at all since we've intercepted SRBMs at 15000 meters alt. with the AAD interceptor which has a speed of mach 4.5 (on 6 December 2007, 26 July 2010, 6 March 2011, 10 February 2012, 23 November 2012)- exactly the same parameters as the Barak-2 except that the latter has a far better seeker on-board, dual IR/Active radar. Lots of details got discussed- will provide the thread and post link later.

Any idea what would be speed of a prithvi as it re-enters, as in in its terminal dive phase?
 
Btw, I am currently think trying to get more infos on the NH90 and a possibility of a NG varient of it, with the Eurocopter X3 changes. We might have to fund it, but it would be a hell of a helicopter!
@sancho- YOU think this but do the right people ie the MoD/IAF brass/HAL? Therein lies the crux of the issue.
 
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