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Indian Brahmos missle crashes in Mian Channo

Trusting China is big mistake (and only) Modi made.

BTW - The Chinese were at their devious and cunning best.

BTW - The way China originated covid and got away with no guilt pangs is a precursor into what the world is going to witness in future

My last response in this thread.
Remember what Zia Ul Haq said to your pm in india while you guys were thinking of war:

Mr. Rajiv you want to invade Pakistan? Ok fine go ahead! But please remember one thing that after that people will forget Changez Khan and Hilaku Khan and will remember Zia and Rajiv Gandhi only. Because it will not be a Conventional War. Pakistan may possibly suffer annihilation but Muslims will still survive because there are several Muslim countries in the world. But remember there is only one India and I shall wipe out Hinduism and Hindu religion from the face of the earth! And if you don’t order complete de-escalation and demobilisation before my return to Pakistan, the first word of mouth I will utter will be “Fire”!

This statement still stands today!

Don’t worry if it’s Chinese missile or Pakistani missile, if you guys dare try anything we’ll turn you into history.
 
in times of military escalations or confrontations, there would not be any civilian traffic flying over Pakistan in which case, the missiles wouldn't make it to the border, it would be shot down before or at the border by HQ9P batteries as they allegedly have s range of 300km. but indians were trying to be slick by using a well known air traffic route and try to hide their missile behind a dozen civilian airliners. but alas, being a heck of a lot faster than airliners, it was only a matter of time before it would surpass the airliners and be in an airspace where it could safely be intercepted without endangering any passenger plane. in that sense, it is very real risk that so as long as we have air traffic coming from the indian side, that risk would always remain. there is only one way to address that, stop all air traffic flying from india ...that, way, any time we see a blimp coming in from india, we are clear to shoot it down as soon as it reached the border. it will piss off a lot of countries and airline businesses but we don't have a choice since at best india has proven their incompetence to handle sensitive tech and at worst they purposefully hid the missile behind airliners. until the world puts check regimes on all indian missiles, ballistic or cruise, Pakistan just should not risk it since for all practical intents
and purposes, we have a monkey in our east sitting on gunpowder keg with a match in its hands. the world can either put severe checks on their arsenal or put sanctions on them to comply or just except the additional cost of most being able to fly over india and Pakistan...that's for them to decide.
Akinji C model is especially geared to be like a 24/7 mini AWACs hovering at 50K feet with a powerful EW suit. In the Indo-Pak case it can compensate Pak's lack of a strategical depth to an extent....
 

National security.
For insiders. By insiders.


THE CURIOUS CASE OF THE ACCIDENTAL INDIAN MISSILE LAUNCH​

CHRISTOPHER CLARY
MARCH 17, 2022
COMMENTARY
nirbhay final

With global attention fixed on Ukraine, you could be forgiven for missing something that would have been major news in more normal times: An Indian cruise missile landed in Pakistan last week. It appears to have been an accident and, thankfully, it appears to have been unarmed, but any missile fired from one nuclear-armed country at another demands closer scrutiny. The episode raises a series of questions about safety and security procedures that Indian authorities need to address. Perhaps this accident will even prompt India to reconsider long-dormant diplomatic proposals to reduce nuclear risks in South Asia.
What do we know about the episode so far? On March 9, shortly after sundown, a cruise missile was launched from somewhere in western India. According to a briefing from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations directorate, the missile was located in the vicinity of Sirsa, India, at 7:13 p.m., then proceeded to fly at a high altitude in a southwesterly direction, before making a gradual right turn south of the Indian city of Suratgarh in the direction of Pakistan. It then crossed the international border before flying more than 100 kilometers into Pakistani airspace, where it eventually crashed harmlessly near the small Pakistani city of Mian Channu. Its total flight time was less than seven minutes.

BECOME A MEMBER

After two days of silence, the government of India acknowledged that “in the course of a routine maintenance, a technical malfunction led to the accidental firing of a missile.” While the full course of correspondence between India and Pakistan has not been revealed, several media accounts indicated the dedicated army-to-army hotline was not used to inform Pakistan of the errant missile. Pakistan’s national security advisor also criticized India for not having informed Pakistan “immediately,” and foreign ministry statements imply that India did not acknowledge the flight until after Pakistan had briefed the media.
While Pakistan’s public posture was forceful in criticizing India for the accident, condemning India’s “callousness and ineptitude,” its overall response was “low-key,” as the New York Times observed. Subsequent media accounts have suggested Pakistani authorities had considered and perhaps even prepared for retaliation until its assessment of the crash site found no meaningful damage on the ground. The Pakistan military’s conclusion that the missile was “certainly unarmed” may have contributed to their decision to respond with public derision and nothing further.
The Indian defense minister told parliament that a review of India’s maintenance and safety procedures was underway, along with an inquiry into the causes of the launch. Luckily, the apparently accidental launch occurred during a boring Wednesday evening for the subcontinent’s sometimes fraught interstate politics. The 2019 Balakot crisis, though, offers a template of circumstances in which an errant cruise-missile launch could have proved catastrophic rather than merely embarrassing. That earlier crisis had begun following a suicide-bomb attack on Indian paramilitaries in Kashmir, which had led to tit-for-tat standoff air attacks between the Indian and Pakistani air forces. In the course of those skirmishes, an Indian pilot was shot down and captured by Pakistan. According to subsequent accounts, India threatened to escalate violence further if its pilot was not returned unharmed, including reportedly explicit threats to launch a missile attack on Pakistani targets. Prime Minister Narendra Modi later told campaign crowds he had threatened a “qatal ki raat” (a night of bloodshed) if the Indian pilot was not released. As Vipin Narang and I commented at the time, “South Asia was a couple of wrong turns away from serious escalation.” It does not take a particularly creative imagination to conclude that an inadvertent missile launch in that atmosphere might have led to something different than a somewhat staid Pakistani press conference.
Sometimes accidents happen despite the best protocols and training. Scott Sagan has argued famously that there are “limits of safety” both because of the sheer randomness of existence and because of organizational pathologies that manifest even in military units that prize safety as a mission. The U.S. nuclear weapons and missile safety track record is hardly inspiring. Yet even grading on a curve, India’s inadvertent launch stands out. While deadly military accidents were disturbingly common during the Cold War, last week’s episode may be the first inadvertent launch of a cruise or ballistic missile by one nuclear power unto the territory of another nuclear power. Additionally, while accidental launches often occur during exercises, their occurrence during routine maintenance is less common, if for no other reason than typically there are numerous physical safeguards to prevent a missile’s flight in such circumstances. Thus, when a Pershing 2 misfired during maintenance in Germany in 1985, the missile remained stationary and clamped to its launcher “because it was not in a firing configuration,” the U.S. Army explained. There are tales among old artillery officers of missiles launching without such clamps removed, resulting in launch vehicles being dragged into the air and crashing a short distance later. What positive steps do Indian crews have to take before their missiles can be fired? Do design or procedural changes need to take place to prevent a recurrence of this episode? Hopefully India’s inquiry will seek to answer these questions.
The other disturbing characteristic of this episode is India’s apparent lack of haste in communicating with Pakistan about the accident. No state would like for its advanced technology to land in the territory of an opponent, in part because of the potential compromise of technology and secrets that exploitation of the crash site would offer. Perhaps India hoped Pakistan would simply not notice, or that it wouldn’t find the debris. Alternatively, perhaps India was uncertain as to the missile’s trajectory and assumed that it had not strayed into Pakistan. The Indian defense minister told parliament that after the accident, “it was later learnt that the missile had landed inside the territory of Pakistan.” How much later? He didn’t say. What seems to have been a two-day delay in notification appears to contradict India’s obligations under a 1991 agreement with Pakistan on preventing air space violations which obligates both sides “if any inadvertent [airspace] violation does take place, the incident will be promptly investigated and the Headquarters (HQ) of the other Air Force informed of the results without delay, through diplomatic channels” [emphasis mine].
Almost a decade ago, I argued that India’s opacity about safety and security issues was inconsistent with its nuclear-weapons status and its great-power aspirations. “Closed organizations develop pathologies that are often harmful to the broader public interest,” I worried. Whether India’s opacity contributed to this episode is uncertain. The changing nature of India’s explanation in these early days has not been reassuring. Was the accident a result of “routine maintenance,” as India said in its official press release of March 11? Was it the result of “routine maintenance and inspection,” as India’s defense minister told parliament on March 15? Was it the result of a “simulation exercise” gone awry, as one of India’s largest newspapers reported on March 16? Transparency seems needed here, if for no other reason than to convince the Indian public that they are safe from accident. A majority of the missile’s flight trajectory, after all, was over Indian territory — Indian cities, towns, and villages that might have suffered from this accident that mercifully caused no harm to either country.
In addition to visible oversight at home and fulfilling the obligations of prior confidence-building measures, India may wish to consider whether new confidence-building measures are appropriate to demonstrate its safety and security credentials. With back-channel talks between India and Pakistan apparently stalled on the difficult issues surrounding Kashmir, confidence-building measures can give diplomats and militaries a chance to show that meaningful progress is possible even as political dialogue continues. A proposal to establish dedicated, secure lines of communication to discuss nuclear-related issues has been on the table for almost two decades, and such a “hotline” would have been a more natural forum to discuss last week’s accident than the existing link between India and Pakistan’s senior army officers. Similarly, though it is unlikely to have averted this accident, adding cruise-missile flight test notifications to the existing ballistic-missile flight test notification regime between the two countries seems like a good idea. Additionally, it is still uncertain why India’s missile pursued the path that it did. Was it unguided? Was it heading to a specific target but for some reason failed to reach it? The episode does seem to reinforce the wisdom of a 1994 agreement between the United States and Russia to target their long-range ballistic missiles to open ocean areas by default, so that in the absence of an explicit input of target coordinates the missile would fly to an area where it could do no damage. While the short range of some Indian and Pakistani nuclear-capable missiles likely precludes open ocean as a default target, both countries could declare that they will set the guidance systems of their weapons by default to unoccupied areas, such as the vast Thar desert, where they pose as little danger as possible. Using actual coordinates for an adversary target in an exercise, as some of the admittedly contradictory reporting suggests occurred in this case, seems exceptionally ill-advised and should be stopped if it has been a past Indian practice.
It is impossible to wring all the risk out of dangerous weapons. Brinksmanship works, to some extent, because the processes that unfold during a crisis are only partly controllable. They produce “threats that leave something to chance.” Yet the missile episode reinforces that policymakers should be under no illusions that they can fully control these weapons. Military organizations make mistakes, those mistakes cause accidents in peacetime, crisis, and war, and those accidents can be dangerous and deadly. While a full accounting of the causes of the March 9 launch remains to be done, and may never become publicly known, it is consistent with numerous odd and bizarre accidents that have occurred before in nuclear-armed militaries. “Things that have never happened before happen all the time in history,” Sagan observed three decades ago. Inadvertent cruise-missile launches on nuclear opponents are now definitively no longer on that “never happened before” list. We will be lucky if the next surprise is similarly inconsequential.

BECOME A MEMBER

Christopher Clary is an assistant professor of political science at the University at Albany and a nonresident fellow with the South Asia program of the Stimson Center in Washington, D.C. His book, The Difficult Politics of Peace: Rivalry in Modern South Asia, will be released by Oxford University Press this summer.
Image: Press Information Bureau (Government of India)


Yet it is like “hope india will improve” etc

Had a missile been accidentally launched by us toward india…. Guess what what would have been written!

Some clues “rogue state” “irresponsible country” “should be forced to destroy all its nukes” etc…
 

After India Orders Court of Inquiry, Pakistan Demands Joint Probe into Missile Incident​

The Pakistan foreign office has posed seven 'fundamental questions' to India, seeking an explanation.
After India Orders Court of Inquiry, Pakistan Demands Joint Probe into Missile Incident

Representative image. Credit: Reuters
The Wire Staff

The Wire Staff





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12/MAR/2022
New Delhi: After India accepted that a “technical malfunction” led to a missile entering Pakistani territory, Pakistan on Saturday demanded a “joint probe”, asserting that an internal court of inquiry was not enough.
A day earlier, the Indian ministry of defence admitted that a missile was “accidentally fired” due to a “technical malfunction” during “routine maintenance”. The Indian admittance came a day after the Pakistan army went public that a “super-sonic flying object” had entered its territory from India.
India announced that the government had “taken a serious view and ordered a high-level Court of Enquiry”.
In the first official response to the Indian admittance, Pakistan called for a joint investigation.
“The whole incident indicates many loopholes and technical lapses of serious nature in Indian handling of strategic weapons. Indian decision to hold an internal court of inquiry is not sufficient since the missile ended up in Pakistani territory. Pakistan demands a joint probe to accurately establish the facts surrounding the incident,” said the statement from the Pakistan foreign office on Saturday afternoon.

Also read: India Expresses ‘Deep Regret’ Over ‘Accidental Firing’ of Missile that Landed in Pakistan
It claimed that due to the short distance and response time, any misinterpretation by the other side could have led to counter-measures in self-defence with grave consequences. “Pakistan, therefore, calls upon the international community to take serious notice of this incident of grave nature in a nuclearised environment and play its due role in promoting strategic stability in the region.”
The Pakistani statement also listed seven “fundamental questions” that need to be answered by the Indian government.
  • India must explain the measures and procedures in place to prevent accidental missile launches and the particular circumstances of this incident.
  • India needs to clearly explain the type and specifications of the missile that fell in Pakistani territory.
  • India also needs to explain the flight path/ trajectory of the accidentally launched missile and how it ultimately turned and entered into Pakistan?
  • Was the missile equipped with self-destruct mechanism? Why did it fail to actualise?
  • Are Indian missiles kept primed for launch even under routine maintenance?
  • Why did India fail to immediately inform Pakistan about the accidental launch of the missile and waited to acknowledge it till after Pakistan announced the incident and sought clarification?
  • Given the profound level of incompetence, India needs to explain if the missile was indeed handled by its armed forces or some rogue elements?
There has been no response from the Indian side to the latest Pakistani demand.
The Pakistani foreign office’s statement mirrored the tweets of National Security Advisor Moeed Yusuf who questioned India’s ability to handle sensitive technologies and called for an investigation.
Yusuf posted in a series of tweets on Friday that the Indian government did not bother to inform Pakistan about the incident.
“This raises serious questions about India’s ability to handle such sensitive technology,” he said.
He said that the missile had travelled close to the path of international and domestic airlines and threatened the safety of civilians. He also called out the Indian authorities for not informing Pakistan immediately that an “inadvertent launch of a cruise missile had taken place”.
“In a nuclear environment, such callousness and ineptitude raise questions about the safety and security of Indian weapon systems,” he said.
Yusuf also alluded to multiple incidents of uranium theft in India that had been reported and its citizens “have even been arrested while smuggling uranium in the recent past”.
He regretted that Pakistan’s repeated calls urging the world to take notice of “India’s irresponsible behaviour” had been ignored and New Delhi continued to pose a threat to regional stability.
“Given this incident (of March 9), and earlier ones, the world must consider whether India is able to ensure the safety and security of its nuclear and other high-end weapon systems,” the Pakistani NSA said.
“The world must remove its blinders about the Indian state’s behaviour within its country, its diplomatic direction, and its disregard for the need for peace and stability in its neighbourhood. The world must treat this incident with the urgency, sensitivity and (the) alarm it deserves.”

Yusuf also called for an investigation into the “real circumstances surrounding” the March 9 incident “to ascertain if this was an inadvertent launch or something more intentional” as “it is hard to believe anything this Indian government says”. He said the missile could have caused massive damage.
(With agency inputs)
 

National security.
For insiders. By insiders.


THE CURIOUS CASE OF THE ACCIDENTAL INDIAN MISSILE LAUNCH​

CHRISTOPHER CLARY
MARCH 17, 2022
COMMENTARY
nirbhay final

With global attention fixed on Ukraine, you could be forgiven for missing something that would have been major news in more normal times: An Indian cruise missile landed in Pakistan last week. It appears to have been an accident and, thankfully, it appears to have been unarmed, but any missile fired from one nuclear-armed country at another demands closer scrutiny. The episode raises a series of questions about safety and security procedures that Indian authorities need to address. Perhaps this accident will even prompt India to reconsider long-dormant diplomatic proposals to reduce nuclear risks in South Asia.
What do we know about the episode so far? On March 9, shortly after sundown, a cruise missile was launched from somewhere in western India. According to a briefing from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations directorate, the missile was located in the vicinity of Sirsa, India, at 7:13 p.m., then proceeded to fly at a high altitude in a southwesterly direction, before making a gradual right turn south of the Indian city of Suratgarh in the direction of Pakistan. It then crossed the international border before flying more than 100 kilometers into Pakistani airspace, where it eventually crashed harmlessly near the small Pakistani city of Mian Channu. Its total flight time was less than seven minutes.

BECOME A MEMBER

After two days of silence, the government of India acknowledged that “in the course of a routine maintenance, a technical malfunction led to the accidental firing of a missile.” While the full course of correspondence between India and Pakistan has not been revealed, several media accounts indicated the dedicated army-to-army hotline was not used to inform Pakistan of the errant missile. Pakistan’s national security advisor also criticized India for not having informed Pakistan “immediately,” and foreign ministry statements imply that India did not acknowledge the flight until after Pakistan had briefed the media.
While Pakistan’s public posture was forceful in criticizing India for the accident, condemning India’s “callousness and ineptitude,” its overall response was “low-key,” as the New York Times observed. Subsequent media accounts have suggested Pakistani authorities had considered and perhaps even prepared for retaliation until its assessment of the crash site found no meaningful damage on the ground. The Pakistan military’s conclusion that the missile was “certainly unarmed” may have contributed to their decision to respond with public derision and nothing further.
The Indian defense minister told parliament that a review of India’s maintenance and safety procedures was underway, along with an inquiry into the causes of the launch. Luckily, the apparently accidental launch occurred during a boring Wednesday evening for the subcontinent’s sometimes fraught interstate politics. The 2019 Balakot crisis, though, offers a template of circumstances in which an errant cruise-missile launch could have proved catastrophic rather than merely embarrassing. That earlier crisis had begun following a suicide-bomb attack on Indian paramilitaries in Kashmir, which had led to tit-for-tat standoff air attacks between the Indian and Pakistani air forces. In the course of those skirmishes, an Indian pilot was shot down and captured by Pakistan. According to subsequent accounts, India threatened to escalate violence further if its pilot was not returned unharmed, including reportedly explicit threats to launch a missile attack on Pakistani targets. Prime Minister Narendra Modi later told campaign crowds he had threatened a “qatal ki raat” (a night of bloodshed) if the Indian pilot was not released. As Vipin Narang and I commented at the time, “South Asia was a couple of wrong turns away from serious escalation.” It does not take a particularly creative imagination to conclude that an inadvertent missile launch in that atmosphere might have led to something different than a somewhat staid Pakistani press conference.
Sometimes accidents happen despite the best protocols and training. Scott Sagan has argued famously that there are “limits of safety” both because of the sheer randomness of existence and because of organizational pathologies that manifest even in military units that prize safety as a mission. The U.S. nuclear weapons and missile safety track record is hardly inspiring. Yet even grading on a curve, India’s inadvertent launch stands out. While deadly military accidents were disturbingly common during the Cold War, last week’s episode may be the first inadvertent launch of a cruise or ballistic missile by one nuclear power unto the territory of another nuclear power. Additionally, while accidental launches often occur during exercises, their occurrence during routine maintenance is less common, if for no other reason than typically there are numerous physical safeguards to prevent a missile’s flight in such circumstances. Thus, when a Pershing 2 misfired during maintenance in Germany in 1985, the missile remained stationary and clamped to its launcher “because it was not in a firing configuration,” the U.S. Army explained. There are tales among old artillery officers of missiles launching without such clamps removed, resulting in launch vehicles being dragged into the air and crashing a short distance later. What positive steps do Indian crews have to take before their missiles can be fired? Do design or procedural changes need to take place to prevent a recurrence of this episode? Hopefully India’s inquiry will seek to answer these questions.
The other disturbing characteristic of this episode is India’s apparent lack of haste in communicating with Pakistan about the accident. No state would like for its advanced technology to land in the territory of an opponent, in part because of the potential compromise of technology and secrets that exploitation of the crash site would offer. Perhaps India hoped Pakistan would simply not notice, or that it wouldn’t find the debris. Alternatively, perhaps India was uncertain as to the missile’s trajectory and assumed that it had not strayed into Pakistan. The Indian defense minister told parliament that after the accident, “it was later learnt that the missile had landed inside the territory of Pakistan.” How much later? He didn’t say. What seems to have been a two-day delay in notification appears to contradict India’s obligations under a 1991 agreement with Pakistan on preventing air space violations which obligates both sides “if any inadvertent [airspace] violation does take place, the incident will be promptly investigated and the Headquarters (HQ) of the other Air Force informed of the results without delay, through diplomatic channels” [emphasis mine].
Almost a decade ago, I argued that India’s opacity about safety and security issues was inconsistent with its nuclear-weapons status and its great-power aspirations. “Closed organizations develop pathologies that are often harmful to the broader public interest,” I worried. Whether India’s opacity contributed to this episode is uncertain. The changing nature of India’s explanation in these early days has not been reassuring. Was the accident a result of “routine maintenance,” as India said in its official press release of March 11? Was it the result of “routine maintenance and inspection,” as India’s defense minister told parliament on March 15? Was it the result of a “simulation exercise” gone awry, as one of India’s largest newspapers reported on March 16? Transparency seems needed here, if for no other reason than to convince the Indian public that they are safe from accident. A majority of the missile’s flight trajectory, after all, was over Indian territory — Indian cities, towns, and villages that might have suffered from this accident that mercifully caused no harm to either country.
In addition to visible oversight at home and fulfilling the obligations of prior confidence-building measures, India may wish to consider whether new confidence-building measures are appropriate to demonstrate its safety and security credentials. With back-channel talks between India and Pakistan apparently stalled on the difficult issues surrounding Kashmir, confidence-building measures can give diplomats and militaries a chance to show that meaningful progress is possible even as political dialogue continues. A proposal to establish dedicated, secure lines of communication to discuss nuclear-related issues has been on the table for almost two decades, and such a “hotline” would have been a more natural forum to discuss last week’s accident than the existing link between India and Pakistan’s senior army officers. Similarly, though it is unlikely to have averted this accident, adding cruise-missile flight test notifications to the existing ballistic-missile flight test notification regime between the two countries seems like a good idea. Additionally, it is still uncertain why India’s missile pursued the path that it did. Was it unguided? Was it heading to a specific target but for some reason failed to reach it? The episode does seem to reinforce the wisdom of a 1994 agreement between the United States and Russia to target their long-range ballistic missiles to open ocean areas by default, so that in the absence of an explicit input of target coordinates the missile would fly to an area where it could do no damage. While the short range of some Indian and Pakistani nuclear-capable missiles likely precludes open ocean as a default target, both countries could declare that they will set the guidance systems of their weapons by default to unoccupied areas, such as the vast Thar desert, where they pose as little danger as possible. Using actual coordinates for an adversary target in an exercise, as some of the admittedly contradictory reporting suggests occurred in this case, seems exceptionally ill-advised and should be stopped if it has been a past Indian practice.
It is impossible to wring all the risk out of dangerous weapons. Brinksmanship works, to some extent, because the processes that unfold during a crisis are only partly controllable. They produce “threats that leave something to chance.” Yet the missile episode reinforces that policymakers should be under no illusions that they can fully control these weapons. Military organizations make mistakes, those mistakes cause accidents in peacetime, crisis, and war, and those accidents can be dangerous and deadly. While a full accounting of the causes of the March 9 launch remains to be done, and may never become publicly known, it is consistent with numerous odd and bizarre accidents that have occurred before in nuclear-armed militaries. “Things that have never happened before happen all the time in history,” Sagan observed three decades ago. Inadvertent cruise-missile launches on nuclear opponents are now definitively no longer on that “never happened before” list. We will be lucky if the next surprise is similarly inconsequential.

BECOME A MEMBER

Christopher Clary is an assistant professor of political science at the University at Albany and a nonresident fellow with the South Asia program of the Stimson Center in Washington, D.C. His book, The Difficult Politics of Peace: Rivalry in Modern South Asia, will be released by Oxford University Press this summer.
Image: Press Information Bureau (Government of India)
that's one BS paid article without a single word of condemnation and falsely attributing Pakistan giving in to Modi's threat of "qatal ki raat" and releasing Abhi none done.

wonder what our embassies are doing in powerful capitals... not a single journalist in contact with Pakistani lobbyists (if they exist) to write an article questioning safety and security of Indian nuclear arsenal?
 
I know they. my suggestion was a way to make sure that there first strike won't get to hide behind airliners and the costs will be more punitive in their air travel going westward. if we see anything going from the east to west, we intercept and strike back simultaneously. but that's just me. I'm sure that our military higher ups have more viable ideas.

Hi,

Never assume that they know more than you---.

It would be prudent to change the flight paths of the civilian aircrafts away from the border areas---.

They will be a distraction and time consuming during the enemy first strikes---.
 
in times of military escalations or confrontations, there would not be any civilian traffic flying over Pakistan in which case, the missiles wouldn't make it to the border, it would be shot down before or at the border by HQ9P batteries as they allegedly have s range of 300km. but indians were trying to be slick by using a well known air traffic route and try to hide their missile behind a dozen civilian airliners. but alas, being a heck of a lot faster than airliners, it was only a matter of time before it would surpass the airliners and be in an airspace where it could safely be intercepted without endangering any passenger plane. in that sense, it is very real risk that so as long as we have air traffic coming from the indian side, that risk would always remain. there is only one way to address that, stop all air traffic flying from india ...that, way, any time we see a blimp coming in from india, we are clear to shoot it down as soon as it reached the border. it will piss off a lot of countries and airline businesses but we don't have a choice since at best india has proven their incompetence to handle sensitive tech and at worst they purposefully hid the missile behind airliners. until the world puts check regimes on all indian missiles, ballistic or cruise, Pakistan just should not risk it since for all practical intents
and purposes, we have a monkey in our east sitting on gunpowder keg with a match in its hands. the world can either put severe checks on their arsenal or put sanctions on them to comply or just except the additional cost of most being able to fly over india and Pakistan...that's for them to decide.
so it was so calculated shot and indians fired it so precisely that it missed the commercial jetliners? I don't get it
 
so it was so calculated shot and indians fired it so precisely that it missed the commercial jetliners? I don't get it
what's not to get? they didn't calculate it "precisely" to shoot down a commercial jetliner, brahmos isn't an surface to air or an air to air missile. they calculated it precisely to hide behind the commercial jetliners so that the PAF AD would be too intimidated about taking a shot at a target hiding behind commercial jetliners. kinda like how a sniper is nervous about taking a shot at a kidnapper hiding behind many hostages. but just like a sniper takes the shot as soon as he sees a safe gap, PAF AD took the shot as soon as they saw a safe gap.
 
what's not to get? they didn't calculate it "precisely" to shoot down a commercial jetliner, brahmos isn't an surface to air or an air to air missile. they calculated it precisely to hide behind the commercial jetliners so that the PAF AD would be too intimidated about taking a shot at a target hiding behind commercial jetliners. kinda like how a sniper is nervous about taking a shot at a kidnapper hiding behind many hostages. but just like a sniper takes the shot as soon as he sees a safe gap, PAF AD took the shot as soon as they saw a safe gap.

Even PAF reps are saying they didnt shoot it down, the army guy said, SAM doesnt differentiate b/w Jet airline and Missile in absence of IFF. Then how the heck you can say it was intercepted? Are you more knowledgeable than them?
 
Even PAF reps are saying they didnt shoot it down, the army guy said, SAM doesnt differentiate b/w Jet airline and Missile in absence of IFF. Then how the heck you can say it was intercepted? Are you more knowledgeable than them?
yeah ok the Military also says that they are politically neutral but we all know how true that is now don't we? so let's not worry about what they say, they will naturally conceal their capabilities. and you have answered your own question. SAMs really can't differentiate the difference between an airliner and a missile but the ground radar CAN simply based on the speed. But they will obviously NOT fire the SAMs out until the missile, which is supersonic has passed all the subsonic passenger airlines and is in an airspace where it COULD be safely intercepted. It's simple logic, basic common sense... as an example, its like, "oh hey, there's a supersonic blimp traveling fast past a dozen subsonic airliners 150kms away from us and given its trajectory, it will pass all the subsonic airliners here in about 2.5 minutes and will be 50km away from us and will be in a region that won't have any subsonic aircrafts in the vicinity so THAT is where we will intercept the poor bastard"! once again, even though rockets are involved, it's not rocket science to figure out what happened! I mean, DUH people...🙄
 
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yeah ok the Military also says that they are politically neutral but we all know how true that is now don't we? so let's not worry about what they say, they will naturally conceal their capabilities. and you have answered your own question. SAMs really can't differentiate the difference between an airliner and a missile but the ground radar CAN simply based on the speed. But they will obviously NOT fire the SAMs out until the missile, which is supersonic has passed all the subsonic passenger airlines and is in an airspace where it COULD be safely intercepted. It's simple logic, basic common sense... as an example, its like, "oh hey, there's a supersonic blimp traveling fast past a dozen subsonic airliners 100kms away from us and given its trajectory, it will pass all the subsonic airliners here in about 2.5 minutes and will be 50km away from us then and in a region that won't have any subsonic aircrafts in the vicinity so THAT is where we will intercept the poor bastard"! once again, even though rockets are involved, it's not rocket science to figure out what happened! I mean, DUH people...🙄
Wut?

There is something called the OODA loop and for the 3 minutes or so it was in Pakistani airspace before smashing into the ground it was never seen in a safe space.
 
Wut?

There is something called the OODA loop and for the 3 minutes or so it was in Pakistani airspace before smashing into the ground it was never seen in a safe space.
the ISPR has not given details of what airliners were in the region when it started is decent or fall of you will so frankly, we can't make that call. But we can say that there is a buffer zone around all sensitive areas where airliners are not allowed to fly over. civilian flight paths are made away from these buffer zones so it was only a matter of time before the doomed brahmos broke away from the civilian air traffic and got ahead of the airliners. whether it was in those buffer zones or not, we don't don't know. But given the range of the HQ9 batteries, it is clear that it was well within the effective shooting range. But was the HQ9P deployed there or not? We don't know that either. These things are not gonna be disclosed and time in the near future.
 
the ISPR has not given details of what airliners were in the region when it started is decent or fall of you will so frankly, we can't make that call. But we can say that there is a buffer zone around all sensitive areas where airliners are not allowed to fly over. civilian flight paths are made away from these buffer zones so it was only a matter of time before the doomed brahmos broke away from the civilian air traffic and got ahead of the airliners. whether it was in those buffer zones or not, we don't don't know. But given the range of the HQ9 batteries, it is clear that it was well within the effective shooting range. But was the HQ9P deployed there or not? We don't know that either. These things are not gonna be disclosed and time in the near future.
You don’t need ISPR - you just need flight aware or another software to go look at those dates.
 
You don’t need ISPR - you just need flight aware or another software to go look at those dates.
ok well go look at them and lemme know what you find out. feel free to post here the images of the fight paths of airlines during the time and date of when they missile fell...I look forward to seeing that...
 

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