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How you rank your identities

That's a beautiful and sound way to put it.

I guess I might be fucked in the head when I say... We are born in this world alone. Can any human remember when they first gain consciousness? There is nobody in the world that lives among us that remembers the beginning to their existence.

I assume when we leave this world, we will also go out the same way. There will be no one with you when you are dying. What do I know? I am just a manically depressed individual.

Death depresses me too. Scares the shit out of me to be honest.

I'm less manic depressive, and more than borderline OCD. I mean actually full blown. Not just the trait.
 
Death depresses me too. Scares the shit out of me to be honest.

I'm less manic depressive, and more than borderline OCD. I mean actually full blown. Not just the trait.

There's nothing to fear. You will just go out the way you came into this world. Beyond that, who knows? Only Allah swt.
 
India claim to be a country based on secular constitution so we will be judging it according to secular principles

Fair enough, but on the forum, whenever Pakistanis question India's secular credentials, the obvious reaction would be to ask what moral high ground Pakistanis have to do so. In principle, yes, India should be judged on the standards India claims to hold.

Now...

It is simply not true that Pakistan is more secular than India, in theory or practice. Far from it. In practice, for any Indian non Hindu persecuted for religious reasons, I can find you enough and more of the same in Pakistan. But even in theory... Just a few days back, a young man was lynched in a university for allegedly promoting his Ahmadi faith. That, by the way, is a crime in Pakistan. In India, everybody has the freedom to practice and profess their religion. It's a constitutional right. Now yes, you can point out instances where that right may have been violated, but by and large, everybody do have that right. Nobody can be jailed for teaching the Ahmadiyya faith or any other.

I can point out examples of hundreds of Shias killed in Pakistan for being Shias. Does that mean that Pakistan is a Sunni supremacist country? I'm sure you would disagree, and you would be right to disagree. There are millions of Shia Muslims living in Pakistan and practicing their faith. Similarly I can point out the millions of Muslims and Christians and Jains and Sikhs in India freely practicing theirs.

Can an Indian Muslim declare that Allah is the only God, and all the Hindu Gods are not real? Yes s/he can. The constitution gives that freedom. Mosques can proclaim that from loudspeakers across the country. Can you imagine the counterpart of that in Pakistan?

At the end of the day, it's the very fabric of society that should be evaluated. Because the Indian republic, by its very nature, is secular, it helps immensely in living together as a huge nation with practitioners of different faiths.
 
There is no such thing as deen e fitrat .......... if there was, then any feral child wouldn't behave wild but all Muslim.
What you are talking about? I was referring to this hadith

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” (Agreed upon)

Now are you denying this Hadith or content of this hadith ? I will reply once you elaborate yourself

Fair enough, but on the forum, whenever Pakistanis question India's secular credentials, the obvious reaction would be to ask what moral high ground Pakistanis have to do so. In principle, yes, India should be judged on the standards India claims to hold.

Now...

It is simply not true that Pakistan is more secular than India, in theory or practice. Far from it. In practice, for any Indian non Hindu persecuted for religious reasons, I can find you enough and more of the same in Pakistan. But even in theory... Just a few days back, a young man was lynched in a university for allegedly promoting his Ahmadi faith. That, by the way, is a crime in Pakistan. In India, everybody has the freedom to practice and profess their religion. It's a constitutional right. Now yes, you can point out instances where that right may have been violated, but by and large, everybody do have that right. Nobody can be jailed for teaching the Ahmadiyya faith or any other.

I can point out examples of hundreds of Shias killed in Pakistan for being Shias. Does that mean that Pakistan is a Sunni supremacist country? I'm sure you would disagree, and you would be right to disagree. There are millions of Shia Muslims living in Pakistan and practicing their faith. Similarly I can point out the millions of Muslims and Christians and Jains and Sikhs in India freely practicing theirs.

Can an Indian Muslim declare that Allah is the only God, and all the Hindu Gods are not real? Yes s/he can. The constitution gives that freedom. Mosques can proclaim that from loudspeakers across the country. Can you imagine the counterpart of that in Pakistan?

At the end of the day, it's the very fabric of society that should be evaluated. Because the Indian republic, by its very nature, is secular, it helps immensely in living together as a huge nation with practitioners of different faiths.
Hey I am not here to make you dislike India if you love India so much and consider it perfect by sitting in United state . I personally never claimed that we don't have any issues in Pakistan or its perfect land. We recognise the social ills in our society and we recognise that we need to adopt more tolerance and acceptance of others. You can glorify India after living in USA but I have met those Indian Muslims who suffered in the hand of Hindu extremist and their point of views is totally different . You should be living in areas where Muslims are minority or where you have rulers like yogi to get the taste of hate and abuse.
 
Actually secularism is not atheism. Secularism means that everyone is free to live as per his/her own religious or non religious beliefs without imposing it on others while state being neutral and make laws without taking any help from any religion or scripture so secularism is not about pleasing the followers of any particular religion or preferring one religion over others but providing freedom to all believers and non-believers alike
Secularism is using man made laws over religious laws. That's haram. Full stop.

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I do not recall asking for opinions,

Neither do I appreciate the part in bold above . Its my choice , I'd be happy if you were to to keep things objective & transactional as I do on reading your choices. I may feel the same as the part in bold & underlined above about Ser 1 of your choices.

Lets put our education to good use.
I'm sorry but if you value being Indian over being a human then you're probably dense enough to make light bend around you.

By your logic, you would value an Indian elephant over a Japanese human.

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Secularism is using man made laws over religious laws. That's haram. Full stop.

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Full stop lol This full stop is not that simple

secular countries are adopting many Islamic principles i.e protecting life and honour of each individuals and giving them freedom to practice their beliefs, providing equality and justice to everyone whether rich or poor , weak or powerful, laws against racism and discrimination even our tabligi people are allowed to come in here to preach religion Islam, free education and quality health services and last but not least great social benefit systems which work for those who are unemployed, old, disable, windows with no jobs etc

Now compare it with Islamic or Muslim countries where you kill people because they don't agree with your beliefs, government are corrupts where kings and princess ruler over people which is un-islamic dictatorship. You have different laws for weak and powerful and for rich and poo over there..people hardly get justice if they are weak..no laws against racism and discrimination . women cannot go outside alone because of fear of eve teasing and harassment . Bribery, corruption and dishonesty is common
 
Full stop lol This full stop is not that simple

secular countries are adopting many Islamic principles i.e protecting life and honour of each individuals and giving them freedom to practice their beliefs, providing equality and justice to everyone whether rich or poor , weak or powerful, laws against racism and discrimination even our tabligi people are allowed to come in here to preach religion Islam, free education and quality health services and last but not least great social benefit systems which work for those who are unemployed, old, disable, windows with no jobs etc

Now compare it with Islamic or Muslim countries where you kill people because they don't agree with your beliefs, government are corrupts where kings and princess ruler over people which is un-islamic dictatorship. You have different laws for weak and powerful and for rich and poo over there..people hardly get justice if they are weak..no laws against racism and discrimination . women cannot go outside alone because of fear of eve teasing and harassment . Bribery, corruption and dishonesty is common
Neither of those examples are examples of Islamic law. You haven't been able to prove secularism is halal.

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Neither of those examples are examples of Islamic law. You haven't been able to prove secularism is halal.
I am not here to prove anything. You don't even know the definition of secularism and confusing it with atheism
 
Then those of us who are living and practising their faith in secular countries would be leading haram life for you. What about those mosques being operated in secular countries? halal?
Ruling by secular law is haram. If a government decides to rule by other than Sharia, then they aren't Muslims.

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Ruling by secular law is haram. If a government decides to rule by other than Sharia, then they aren't Muslims.

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