Hafiz saeed to challenge US bounty in international court

[PakEagle]

Glad to have provided you with amusement, the compliment cannot however be returned since I find nothing particularly amusing about defending a terrorist. Your arguments have little or no basis either in the realm of the legalese or in that of common sense. To believe that a case can be tried in Pakistan whose jurisdiction is in India & to do it without obtaining any concurrence simply because it suits the accused as well as the state & to hold that farcical mockery up as due process of law being completed & expecting everyone else to agree with that warped notion simply boggles the mind. Either such Pakistanis are being cynical & contemptuous or they are simply living in la-la land, neither of which is a pleasant thought. The contempt for such a system & for those advocating its virtues is richly deserved & we have to salute the Americans for coming up with an appropriate response; i.e a $10 million middle finger to your judicial system & to the credibility of the country as a whole.

whatever it remains a mystery why US has to please Indians at a time when Zardari was abt to visit on 8th apr...Beside legailty of the bounty as america cant put bounty on someone who has not committed any crime on her soil.Do americans think indians are unable to take the right steps to guard their soil that they have to take decision on indian behalf thats shameful.As someone asked why india dint announce bounty instead of US and american corresspondent replied in that case hafiz saeed would have surrendered got 51 crore give 21 crore in bribe and escape..Thats how american actually think abt india but all this is infact a pressure tactics to get nato supply open thru pakistan something which seems very difficult ato attain at the moment.

 

[vsdoc]

but all this is infact a pressure tactics to get nato supply open thru pakistan something which seems very difficult ato attain at the moment.

If so, do not give in to US bullying.

Give up this scum along with so many more that you have, rather than give in.

Or take a stand and fight for the scum, and still not give in.

Either way, the world will respect you for that.

Of course either way, the scum will still be dead.

 

[SpArK]

So this move is to please India.

So US is now officially the bunny of India.

Naach basanthi naach

 

[Guest01]

whatever it remains a mystery why US has to please Indians at a time when Zardari was abt to visit on 8th apr...Beside legailty of the bounty as america cant put bounty on someone who has not committed any crime on her soil.Do americans think indians are unable to take the right steps to guard their soil that they have to take decision on indian behalf thats shameful.As someone asked why india dint announce bounty instead of US and american corresspondent replied in that case hafiz saeed would have surrendered got 51 crore give 21 crore in bribe and escape..Thats how american actually think abt india but all this is infact a pressure tactics to get nato supply open thru pakistan something which seems very difficult ato attain at the moment.

You are right.

 

[PakEagle]

So this move is to please India.

So US is now officially the bunny of India.

Naach basanthi naach

It proves the only thing indian are good at...Making their women dance in wet clothes on hills and fields....

We detained him and gave you guys a chance to prove your allegation but even with 2000 pages there was no proof to convict him now again you guys have a chance to go to intl court and prove it there but I am sure he ll come clean out of that as well as neither pak neither he had to do anything with 26/11 as that was done by jews and americans who wanted to keep selling their weapons to indians by making them afraid of pak...Get some wisdom dudes you guys are just being played with nuthing else..

 

[Bang Galore]

Nice speech but utterly devoid of content or logic. We are defending due process, not any particular suspect.

When you guys run out of substance, you resort to meaningless vague rants about ISI, army, and Pakistan in general.

Your willfully disingenuous attempt to link the US bounty to Mumbai shows your desperation now that logic and facts have failed your argument. However, the fact is that, unlike India, Pakistani courts work on evidence, not hearsay.

As for your unfortunate ignorance of judicial processes, I don't even know where to begin. You better hurry up and tell the US judge that he has got it all wrong:

US court: Iran must pay $44.6m. to 1983 Beirut victims

My ignorance of judicial process? I do know where you should start, right at the very bottom. Your attempt to bring in an U.S. civil trial into a discussion on a criminal case displays your "awesome" knowledge of the judicial system. I have made no link of the bounty to the Mumbai incident, you are seeing ghosts, probably a result of a guilty conscience. I have infact clearly linked it to what was found in Bin Laden's lair in Abbottabad, something that you might have known if you weren't in a tearing hurry defending the "due process" for a terrorist (funny how that never seems to be a benefit given to the present President of Pakistan). The American bounty exists & Pakistan seems to be a favourite haunt of those who end up on that list. My delight in the bounty is simply limited to a chance of a well deserved comeuppance being delivered to those who were responsible for terrorist attacks on my country.

 

[Guest01]

It proves the only thing indian are good at...Making their women dance in wet clothes on hills and fields....

We detained him and gave you guys a chance to prove your allegation but even with 2000 pages there was no proof to convict him now again you guys have a chance to go to intl court and prove it there but I am sure he ll come clean out of that as well as neither pak neither he had to do anything with 26/11 as that was done by jews and americans who wanted to keep selling their weapons to indians by making them afraid of pak...Get some wisdom dudes you guys are just being played with nuthing else..

You are right again.

 

[PakEagle]

My ignorance of judicial process? I do know where you should start, right at the very bottom. Your attempt to bring in an U.S. civil trial into a discussion on a criminal case displays your "awesome" knowledge of the judicial system. I have made no link of the bounty to the Mumbai incident, you are seeing ghosts, probably a result of a guilty conscience. I have infact clearly linked it to what was found in Bin Laden's lair in Abbottabad, something that you might have known if you weren't in a tearing hurry defending the "due process" for a terrorist (funny how that never seems to be a benefit given to the present President of Pakistan). The American bounty exists & Pakistan seems to be a favourite haunt of those who end up on that list. My delight in the bounty is simply limited to a chance of a well deserved comeuppance being delivered to those who were responsible for terrorist attacks on my country.

whatever it remains a mystery why US has to please Indians at a time when Zardari was abt to visit on 8th apr...Beside legailty of the bounty as america cant put bounty on someone who has not committed any crime on her soil.Do americans think indians are unable to take the right steps to guard their soil that they have to take decision on indian behalf thats shameful.As someone asked why india dint announce bounty instead of US and american corresspondent replied in that case hafiz saeed would have surrendered got 51 crore give 21 crore in bribe and escape..Thats how american actually think abt india but all this is infact a pressure tactics to get nato supply open thru pakistan something which seems very difficult ato attain at the moment.

We detained him and gave you guys a chance to prove your allegation but even with 2000 pages there was no proof to convict him now again you guys have a chance to go to intl court and prove it there but I am sure he ll come clean out of that as well as neither pak neither he had to do anything with 26/11 as that was done by jews and americans who wanted to keep selling their weapons to indians by making them afraid of pak...Get some wisdom dudes you guys are just being played with nuthing else..

 

[Developereo]

My ignorance of judicial process? I do know where you should start, right at the very bottom. Your attempt to bring in an U.S. civil trial into a discussion on a criminal case displays your "awesome" knowledge of the judicial system. I have made no link of the bounty to the Mumbai incident, you are seeing ghosts, probably a result of a guilty conscience. I have infact clearly linked it to what was found in Bin Laden's lair in Abbottabad, something that you might have known if you weren't in a tearing hurry defending the "due process" for a terrorist (funny how that never seems to be a benefit given to the present President of Pakistan). The American bounty exists & Pakistan seems to be a favourite haunt of those who end up on that list. My delight in the bounty is simply limited to a chance of a well deserved comeuppance being delivered to those who were responsible for terrorist attacks on my country.

Wrong.

In the context of the Indian "conviction" of HS for Mumbai, you claimed that the US bounty is a "$10 million middle finger to your judicial system". We can understand the backflip and evasive talk now, though.

As for the inevitable off-topic rants which seem to be a favorite for Indians, we can safely skip over them.

As for criminal v/s civil cases, you either missed the point or, more likely, are doing more evasive maneuvers. Your claim was that defendants can't be tried outside their country and I posted the most recent example in the news. In case you are wondering about criminal cases, look up universal jurisdiction. It is recognized by most countries except, maybe, the US. Then there is the ICC, of course, whose whole point is to try criminal cases outside the country where crimes were allegedly committed.

 

[vsdoc]

In the context of the Indian "conviction" of HS for Mumbai, you claimed that the US bounty is a "$10 million middle finger to your judicial system". We can understand the backflip and evasive talk now, though.

As for the inevitable off-topic rants which seem to be a favorite for Indians, we can safely skip over them.

But do not skip past links of court judgments convicting scum - requested by you.

The full text was provided by me. Did you read it? I personally have reached Page 148.

What do you have to say now? I have not heard a peep out of you on that. Not expecting a thank you, but a discussion would make the effort worthwhile.

And would help me and others here take you more seriously moving forward.

After all, you're a Think Tank now, and it could not have been on the basis of your performance as a commoner while I was still around.

Or do you want to remain true to form with Indian this Indian that pooh paah and flit like a butterfly elsewhere till you are called out? Embarrassingly yet again ....

 

[Developereo]

But do not skip past links of court judgments convicting scum - requested by you.

The full text was provided by me. Did you read it? I personally have reached Page 148.

What do you have to say now? I have not heard a peep out of you on that. Not expecting a thank you, but a discussion would make the effort worthwhile.

And would help me and others here take you more seriously moving forward.

After all, you're a Think Tank now, and it could not have been on the basis of your performance as a commoner while I was still around.

Or do you want to remain true to form with Indian this Indian that pooh paah and flit like a butterfly elsewhere till you are called out?

Not only did I reply to your posts, you replied to my reply.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ounty-international-court-38.html#post2777202

I will repeat my analogy: if I get caught with drugs and claim that you supplied them to me, the court will not convict you simply based on my "testimony". Actual corroborating evidence must be supplied.

All you gave were allegations by Kasab and, as I said, he could claim that Santa Claus sent him.

 

[Jackdaws]

It proves the only thing indian are good at...Making their women dance in wet clothes on hills and fields....

We detained him and gave you guys a chance to prove your allegation but even with 2000 pages there was no proof to convict him now again you guys have a chance to go to intl court and prove it there but I am sure he ll come clean out of that as well as neither pak neither he had to do anything with 26/11 as that was done by jews and americans who wanted to keep selling their weapons to indians by making them afraid of pak...Get some wisdom dudes you guys are just being played with nuthing else..

Yes indeed - we fully trust your judicial system which hangs Prime Ministers, sanctions coups and showers petals on assassins.

 

[vsdoc]

All you gave were allegations by Kasab and, as I said, he could claim that Santa Claus sent him.

Buddy, then what is all the fuss about?

The only living terrorist has confessed in a court of law with due process followed.

Why do you want or need to question him once again?

Ok you say he's a fake. Ok you claim the testimony is cooked up. Or achieved under duress.

But be that as it may, the details of his confession are with you.

All people and places and details mentioned are in Pakistan.

Your country. Your people. Not some place where our teams would be having open access or make much headway.

So why do your people not follow up each bit of information and come out with your final verdict - either confirming or debunking each bit of the testimony point by point.

What is stopping you guys from doing that?

Would be infinitely more credible than dismissing dossiers and witnesses and testimonies out of hand. In India as well as globally.

 

[Developereo]

Buddy, then what is all the fuss about?

The only living terrorist has confessed in a court of law with due process followed.

The issue here is not Kasab's conviction but that of Hafiz Saeed just because Kasab claimed he met with him. As the Indian report acknowledged, no evidence was provided to the court about HS, only Kasab's statements.

So why do your people not follow up each bit of information and come out with your final verdict - either confirming or debunking each bit of the testimony point by point.

What is stopping you guys from doing that?

Would be infinitely more credible than dismissing dossiers and witnesses and testimonies out of hand. In India as well as globally.

Pakistan used the evidence supplied by India and there was insufficient evidence to convict him. What do you want us to do? convict the man anyway just to please India?

 

[Jackdaws]

Not only did I reply to your posts, you replied to my reply.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ounty-international-court-38.html#post2777202

I will repeat my analogy: if I get caught with drugs and claim that you supplied them to me, the court will not convict you simply based on my "testimony". Actual corroborating evidence must be supplied.

All you gave were allegations by Kasab and, as I said, he could claim that Santa Claus sent him.

Well a testimony is never taken at face value. But that is where circumstantial evidence comes into play. A testimony is usually coupled with such evidence. As far as physical evidence - e.g. phone records, e-mails, communication, places where training may have occurred rests with the host country. In this case Pakistan. Considering that elements within Pakistan were themselves responsible for the attack - how is evidence ever going to be collected? It is like asking Mugabe or Idi Amin to collect evidence against their own regime. The lack of physical evidence in their case does not mean that their hands don't have blood.