Gang of Scumbags: LeJ, LeT, JM, TTP, Punjabi Taliban and Al Qaeda

[EjazR]

@niaz bhai

First of all Deoband is basically a centre of learning and not really a maslak or has an organisaton on this basis if you will. The original Deoband in India is basically a university and can't be treated as a maslak as such. Sure people may identify themselves as Deobandi as in graduated from Deoband but its doesn't have some evil nexus. And all these groups like JeM, LeT e.t.c don't have some formal sanction from Deoband.

Thanks to Zia, his patronising of madrassas that used the deoband pattern of teaching to pervert and turn them into recruitment grounds for Afghan and Kashmir covert wars; we have this situation today. These schools hardly listen to any Deoband edicts or even follow the same pattern of teaching anymore. Infact, if Zia had used Barelwi maddrassas for this purpose, same people would be saying that the Barelwi-Salafi nexus is responsible.

The leading Deoband ulema in India have condemened Taliban style govt. in Afghanistan (infact since the late 90s). They have made it clear time and again that there was no case for Jihad in Kashmir or India. And even before independance they maintained and preferred a democratic secular country and gave theological proofs that this is inline with Islamic practices. In India, they hardly give out takfeeri announcements (even shias are not declared kafirs by Deoband).
While in India the Deoband schools were able to maintain their independant stance, in Pakistan some deoband schools were able to do so but most of these schools, particularly in the NWFP came under Zia's influence and undermined their teachings completely perverting their aims. These were used as politcal tools and muscle for furthering the aims of sections in the army and politcal establishment.

You must realise, why don't these so-called Deobandis listen to their scholars and the orignal school in India? They don't even try to counter the the theological arguments and brush it of with the excuse that they are under GoI pressure or some other similar ridiculous excuse.

The Jihadi extremists are a completely different group all together and draw their inspiration from the likes of Syed Qutb, Abu Hafs, Zawahiri and the like. The takfeeri ideology and the lack/rejection of knowlege in fiqh (Islamic law) particularly among Salafis created a fertile ground for them to grow. The patronising and promotion by Zia, Saudis, the US during the Afghan war further militarised and radicalised them. And thank to OBL, we have the justification of attacking civilians of any type and has rejected every single tenet of Islam and has perverted Islamic teachings making them unrecognisable.

I suggest you read the book by Fawaz Gerges "The Far Enemy: Why Jihad Went Global". He explains quite clearly all these points. We have to know who our enemy is, so that we can correctly target those who have caused this grief.

Some links:
http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/archives2008/kashmir20080228d.html
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...ulema-term-all-taliban-actions-un-islamic--bi
http://www.arf-asia.org/amana/prod/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3367&Itemid=105
http://www.thehindu.com/2008/06/11/stories/2008061153340800.htm

 

[paritosh]

Very good.....but the point was you sure that it was pakistanis that did the attack which turned out to be false a bit like zahid ahmed and Ajmal Kasab being amar singh.

absolutely...it was an embarrassing find for us.I hope it is not repeated.
but Zaid hamid is misguiding an entire nation against us!
and he doed no research or investigations...I suspect that he himself knew that his amar singh story was a hogwash...he is clever than that...he was playing hard ball with us.
Now I can imagine that there might be millions nodding with Hamid as he makes all these startling revelations on TV.
I see glimpses of Hitler in him....having a guy like that can be dangerous...let's hope he doesn't get power.

 

[hembo]

@ dabong1

I guess some people will never learn the essence of peace. You certainly missed my sentiments, wherein, I stretched that let THIS THREAD be a place to shun violence completely, while there are hundreds of thread running where we keep on debating how evil we each other are. You obviously don't agree with this sentiments and you're most welcome to continue advocating violence.

And as I said, you want to discuss Indian army's atrocities in Kashmir, there is a separate sub-forum for it. you can visit that and keep up your support of L-e-T, J-u-D terrorism there. I'll only be happy to debate (albeit politely) in any one of those threads, not here.

 

[adrenalin]

Dawn News

ISLAMABAD: The band of armed terrorists that made its way through the outer security ring of the GHQ complex knew they will not be able to come out alive from the heavily guarded military headquarters.

Caught in a highly tricky hostage situation, the security agencies may take a while in revealing the identities of the attackers or the group they belonged to. But one thing is clear: these were no ‘misguided youngsters’ indoctrinated by fanatics to carry out suicide attacks.

They were highly trained terrorists who excelled in the art of making an impact through their armed attack on a chosen target. If there are similarities they are with last year’s attacks on the police training centre at Manawan, near Lahore, and the attempt to take Sri Lankan cricketers hostage in the Punjab capital.

In both those incidents, groups of highly trained and motivated armed men launched attacks with a view to inflicting heavy damage, take a few hostages, and either die while attempting to do so or escape.

Compared with the ‘suicide attack’ in Pakistani ‘jihadi’ parlance, such terror operations are often referred to as ‘fidayeen attacks’. The description is often reflective of differences in religious beliefs.

A couple of extremist groups believe ‘suicide bombing’ was not as holy as the ‘fidayeen attack’ since in the latter case, the person instead of blowing himself up dies while fighting his adversary. These two strands of Islamic militant movement had become quite obvious at the height of the armed insurgency in Indian-held Kashmir. It is also a preferred method amongst a couple of sectarian militant groups or those involved in Afghanistan, although they also use suicide bombing as one of the tactics against their opponents.

Some of the Pakistan-based pro-Kashmir groups, after being banned or declared terrorist organisations in the post-9/11 scenario, instead of completely winding up their operations or disbanding, either split up or turned against the Pakistani government and the security establishment.

Since then a series of terrorist attacks away from the border region and within Pakistan were the work of these enraged but highly trained militants.

These terror strikes also included a series of organised attacks against the then president and the army chief General Pervez Musharraf, who was accused by the religious extremists of being the main obstacle in the way of what many militants believed was a ‘jihad’. During this period such splinter factions also started regrouping, re-align and reorganise, mainly by finding refuge in places like Waziristan and Malakand. Some parts of southern Punjab also emerged as sanctuaries of such militants and a new nexus was created between Al Qaeda, the Afghan Taliban, and tribal militants in the form of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan and the so-called Punjabi Taliban.

It was also during this period when one started to hear names of all kinds of groups from Harkatul Mujhaideen al-Alami during 2002 and 2003 to groups like Jamia Hafsa Brigade in the Malakand region. And if a claim made by one of the callers to a private channel holds any weight, a new group calling itself Tehrik-i-Taliban (Amjad Farooqui group) was behind the latest attack. Farooqui was the mastermind of one of the major attacks on Gen Musharraf in Dec 2003 and was later killed in a bloody clash with security forces in Nawabshah.

Factions of Lashkar-i-Jhangvi and Jaish-i-Mohammed have also joined ranks with the Waziristan-based TTP, mainly to use their territory to carry out attacks within Pakistan. They are also the groups who have within them a large number of people who have come to be known as the ‘Punjabi Taliban’, and have direct links with militants in various parts of the country, stretching from Islamabad to Karachi. Many of them are highly trained former ‘jihadis’ from the conflict zones of Kashmir and Afghanistan, often preferring to fight it out rather then blowing themselves up in suicide attacks.

A few cells of such ‘fidayeen’ groups were busted by the military and civilian intelligence agencies in recent weeks in Rawalpindi and Islamabad. But it seems there are still a few active or sleeper cells, determined to carry out attacks at an opportune moment. Perhaps the attack on the GHQ may prove to be a watershed that compels the security and civilian establishment, as well as most of the opposition groups, to realise that the time to distinguish between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ religious militants or Taliban was over, and a consensus was needed to confront all such groups as enemies of the state.

A wonderful thought my friend. Kudos to you, and all like you in Pakistan

 

[MilesTogo]

absolutely...it was an embarrassing find for us.I hope it is not repeated.
but Zaid hamid is misguiding an entire nation against us!
and he doed no research or investigations...I suspect that he himself knew that his amar singh story was a hogwash...he is clever than that...he was playing hard ball with us.
Now I can imagine that there might be millions nodding with Hamid as he makes all these startling revelations on TV.
I see glimpses of Hitler in him....having a guy like that can be dangerous...let's hope he doesn't get power.

Two things about Zaid Hamid that I think Indians should appreciate - 1) He talks straight. 2) and encourages research on Islam.