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Formula for new NSG members leaves Pakistan out: US group

India has a waiver from NSG. It has a signed a civil-nuclear deal with US, and recently with Japan. Signed MOU with Russia to build multiple reactors. India is acquiring nuclear technology and material from the world over. So tell me why membership to NSG is important for India besides a prestige issue

I keep hearing this from a lot of Indians "psshh we don't care we already have all the privileges that NSG membership provides" then why is India pushing so hard for it? Why bother if it doesn't matter?
 
Its good if NSG is turned into a joker mafia..and then everyone goes about doing what they want..largest beneficiary being China!

I keep hearing this from a lot of Indians "psshh we don't care we already have all the privileges that NSG membership provides" then why is India pushing so hard for it? Why bother if it doesn't matter?

Exactly..what is the let up??
 
I keep hearing this from a lot of Indians "psshh we don't care we already have all the privileges that NSG membership provides" then why is India pushing so hard for it? Why bother if it doesn't matter?

Like joining an elite club: it offers nothing else except prestige.
 
^^ I don't think Trump will get to Obama's low as far as Indian appeasement is concerned. Sure, Trump is going to have a good relation with India, but he will factor in everything. This is another last desperate Obama attempt to get his India NSG wish pushed through.

India US Nuclear agreement was first Initiated by George W Bush, a republican presidend. Mr. Trump is a Republican as well.
 
http://www.dawn.com/news/1304941/formula-for-new-nsg-members-leaves-pakistan-out-us-group
Formula for new NSG members leaves Pakistan out: US group

Anwar Iqbal — Updated 9 minutes ago
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WASHINGTON: A draft proposal for accepting new members into the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) paves the way for India’s entry but leaves Pakistan out, says a US-based arms control organisation.

The Arms Control Association (ACA), Washington, also warns that relaxing membership rules will undermine non-proliferation.

Last week, the US media reported that Rafael Mariano Grossi, a former chairman of the NSG, had prepared a two-page document, explaining how a non-NPT state, like India and Pakistan, could join the group. Mr Grossi was acting on behalf of the current chairman, Song Young-wan of South Korea, and his document enjoys a semi-official status.

To prevent India from blocking Pakistan from joining the NPT, Mr Grossi’s draft note proposes that “one non-NPT member state should reach an understanding not to block consensus on membership for another non-NPT member state”.

But ACA’s executive director, Daryl Kimball, warns that “Pakistan still has grounds to object to the formula outlined by Mr Grossi”. He explains that the document will require Pakistan to meet the same criteria for membership as India “but, to engage in civil nuclear trade with NSG states, it would have to win a separate NSG exemption from the full-scope safeguards requirement”.

The 48-nation NSG is a nuclear technology control organisation formed in 1975 in response to India’s first nuclear weapon test, which used plutonium produced with nuclear technology from Canada and the United States. The NSG seeks to prevent similar future misuses.

Current NSG membership rules require a state to sign the nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) before joining this exclusive club. India remains one of only three countries, with Israel and Pakistan, never to have signed the NPT.

Earlier this year, India formally applied for membership and was followed by Pakistan. The United States, and a host of other powerful western nations, back India’s application, but China and half a dozen other nations are blocking India’s membership, which requires a consensus of all members.

India had hoped to join the group during NSG’s last plenary session, held in Seoul in June this year, but the meeting ended without taking any decision on New Delhi’s application.

Several countries expressed concerns over India’s entry because it had not yet signed the NPT. China led the efforts to block India’s membership.

After the plenary, the new chairman asked Mr Grossi to work out a proposal for admitting new members. The proposal he prepared also addressed the India-Pakistan dispute, acknowledging that both countries had “political reasons” for blocking each other’s membership.

But Mr Kimball points out that Grossi’s formula allows India to claim that it has already undertaken the steps necessary for membership, “which could then lead to a decision on membership for India, while still leaving Pakistan in a different status”.

The proposal requires a non-NPT state to declare that it has brought into force a clear and strict separation of current and future civilian nuclear facilities from non-civilian nuclear facilities and is willing to apply this principle to future facilities as well.

The new member also needs to assure NSG that it has provided and maintains a declaration to the IAEA that identifies all current and future civilian nuclear facilities.

The applicant also needs to assure NSG that it has enforced a safeguards agreement with the IAEA covering all declared civilian facilities and all future civilian facilities which the IAEA determines are eligible for safeguards.

Published in Dawn, December 28th, 2016
First attempt of Pak nuclear asset disclosure
 
Even if USA agrees to Pakistan NSG membership there are scores of countries that would not
India's case in NSG is zero without the backing from US. The heavyweights matter.

If Pakistan wishes to open nuclear trade, how is it possible if supplier doesn't know whether it's resources are being used for the intended purpose, not in building in military grade weapons material.
Well typically speaking, despite NSG trying to keep a lid on militarization and proliferation of nuclear tech. It still cant guarantee that the fuels and tech would be used solely for civilian purposes. Dual use technologies and fuel can be manipulated by the end user. So you continue to see small proliferations, misplacing of nuclear fuels every know and then.
 
We will make our own NSG group if Pakistan is Omitted
if two ppl make a party yes then you can. :partay: Which other countries other than china & pakistan are willing to join? If they do then they will be excluded from NSG. More ever I dont think china will burn its hands due to pakistan. Remember china or usa are not doing any favor to India or Pakistan , both are just looking after their own interests. If it is not rewarding for them enuf they will just walk away.
 
Chinese legitimate reasons to keep a lid on Indian dreams of NSG but this would come at the cost of Pakistan's membership since US would play tit-for-tat in that case.

I keep hearing this from a lot of Indians "psshh we don't care we already have all the privileges that NSG membership provides" then why is India pushing so hard for it? Why bother if it doesn't matter?
This is just for status. It makes no tangible difference to India.

India already has the entire set of rights that NSG members enjoy because of the full waiver granted by NSG to India.

There is literally zero difference between the members sitting in NSG and India in what they can do and trade with respect to all things nuclear...except that we don't sit there.

The trade play (which is the bread and butter of economy and will lead to private nuclear companies in India gaining global footholds) and strategy play (strategic deals being signed with countries ) has been done and won.

This is now just a power play for visual effect. You don't project power till you're in the seat. We have all the privileges that they have, but we are not yet one of them. These are a different set of cards. For India to continue to grow to be a major world power, we must have all the cards.

Belarus, Bulgaria, Croatia, Latvia, Kazaghstan, Lithuania, Malta, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, and Slovenia must be very prestigious nations then.
India is seeking entry into NSG as a "Nuclear Weapons State". The countries above in NSG are not NWS.

The difference is like that between the P5 and the rest in UN. Every country is in UN, but only 5 have the power.
Even if India get NSG, Pakistan and Israel still getting indirect cooperation from many countries of the world. Now India has sign the strategic logistic partnership with US/NATO. So, allies member should get Indian NSG membership.
Incorrect.

Pakistan can get support from one and only one country - China. That is because its sales of nuclear reactors to Pakistan is 'grandfathered' under a previous sale that China made before it joined NSG.
No other country in the world can trade or transfer knowhow with Pakistan in nuclear technology.

The case with India was exactly the same - with the one country allowed to trade with India being Russia instead of China and with trade grandfathered under a previous sale... TILL India got the NSG waiver. Now India can trade with every country in the world.
Which countries exactly? Even the Chinese help on current nuclear reactors comes under the technical protection of these reactors being sold prior to China agreed to the terms of NSG and become its member (2004).
 
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8 years have been passed since US india nuclear deal but i hear its still not operational or implemented. I dont think India has capability to operate nuclear plants
 
I believe if US keeps the relentless push, India will eventually get the nod to entre the NSG. China's opposition isn't indefinite and will eventually agree to the new proposal. However, this should not distract Pakistan from focusing on building her soft power through economic development and foremost the vision to become the energy and trade hub for Europe, Russia,Japan, China and Central Asia. This will automatically yield the diplomatic goodwill since Africa,ME,East Asia and Australia depend heavily on Chinese economy for trade and CPEC will help foster our relationships with them.
The one possible scenario can be Trump escalating China-US cold war to unprecedented levels which could lend Chinese legitimate reasons to keep a lid on Indian dreams of NSG but this would come at the cost of Pakistan's membership since US would play tit-for-tat in that case.
Trump is the last person to lobby for someone else unless it brings goodies for himself and himself alone. He has made even Taiwan a pawn for negotiation. If the Chinese are willing to pay the price the renegade island is theirs. Real time betting in action...

We will make our own NSG group if Pakistan is Omitted
Old institutions are dying out to give room for new ones. Only HE is Ba'ki, everything else is Fa'ni. Only if you they knew..
 
Even if India get NSG, Pakistan and Israel still getting indirect cooperation from many countries of the world. Now India has sign the strategic logistic partnership with US/NATO. So, allies member should get Indian NSG membership.
Which countries exactly? Even the Chinese help on current nuclear reactors comes under the technical protection of these reactors being sold prior to China agreed to the terms of NSG and become its member (2004).
 
India's case in NSG is zero without the backing from US. The heavyweights matter.


Well typically speaking, despite NSG trying to keep a lid on militarization and proliferation of nuclear tech. It still cant guarantee that the fuels and tech would be used solely for civilian purposes. Dual use technologies and fuel can be manipulated by the end user. So you continue to see small proliferations, misplacing of nuclear fuels every know and then.

US backing is critical. I do not see how USA can convince scores of other countries about Pakistan. India has done a lot of diplomacy to make her case to countries in Europe. Pakistan has never bothered to. In fact Pakistan filed for NSG membership two months before India's membership vote.
 

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