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Deadly Russian air raid hits market in Syria's Idlib! Kills over 40 civilians, wounds 70.

Well done. You just made sure a bunchbof new recruits towards the Isis terror cause. Extremely horrible and what was the point targeting a market.

Just like the pak drone strikes these foreign fighters struggle and end up killing civilians a bunch of times under the pathetic guise of collateral damage.

It may be a terror city but what sense was there to bomb a market. Did they think it was a terror gathering... If that's the thinking then next they will start to bomb weddings and funerals just like those drone strikes.....
 
What a difference 4 years makes in NYT headlines...

Russia is just ensuring, among others, that NYT would not have to make such radical turns again in the future.


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*shrug* pure fluff rhetoric of your own imagining.

not much to reply to except the failed meme of oil. a common fringe theory, of which you can provide no evidence.

In anycase it is without doubt that Russia does not care about civilian casualties. Not surprised at the double standard.

Oh pffffff. Please don't go off of pathetic mainstream US media, only yanks would believe them to be an impartial source of credible news.

The world knows your politicians paid out the news agencies to report what the politicians want the world to hear. Occasionally, there are a few pits which under the table sources of funding don't cover, and hence, the hospital bombing news had some light shed on it.

Of course, US officials say it was accidental, and most yanks would go on and believe such a claim. Clearly, there must have been a high value target, in which case, civilian lives would be overlooked inspite of your 'affectionate Western policies.' This makes your country just as bad as the Ruskies, stop trying to exculpate yourselves.

At this rate, I'd rather believe things Fox news have to say. At least their bias come from political agenda, and not from corruption at the highest level.
 
The strikes hit the town of Ariha, which is controlled by the Army of Conquest, a rebel alliance which includes the Nusra Front, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

I think I do not need to remind you of Nursa Front which is the parent group of ISIS. They are basically Terrorist group which killed and terrorist innocent people. Just becos their name is not ISIS does not mean they are not extremist. So if Al Qaeda is not ISIS then is must be moderate rebel group,right?

lol, you should probably do some homework on Middle east.

Al-Nusra (By the way, you spell Nusra wrong) front is based in Lebanon and were active in Syria.
ISIS and its parent organisation is AQI and it was called Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, based in Jordan, active in Iraq.

And then ISIS was formed by Zarqawi in 1999 and was reformed by Al-Baghdadi in 2006. While Al-Nusra front did not exist until a spill over between AQ and ISIS in Syria in 2012. The spill over is because AQ refused to join ISIS and Al-Nusra front was formed as Syrian Chapter of AQ.

So, if anything, you can claim ISIS is the parent group of Al Nusra (Which is wrong), not the other way round.

LOL you already started dodging the main point of the article which is civilian casualties that resulted from a Russian air strike on a market. Imagine what you would say if Turkey, the U.S, or another western country did something like this. :whistle:

Why you response to his post when he even spell "NUSRA" wrong? He spell that with "N.U.R.S.A"

Unless you are doing what I am doing, Laughing at them for opening their mouth on something they have absolutely NO IDEA on...


How do you know its really civilian casualities?

In the video, last mins. The spokeswoman is caught lying about bombing of civilian and forced to correct it. o_O

We know Al Jazerra is bought by UAE and UAE hates Russian and is an avid supporter of US. Those western back news agency has a tendency to lie throught media and spread false news.

I think I debunked that RT Video is fake and the photograph does not met the condition of what the Russian Claim, the photo Russian provided is NOT the hospital in question

I did answer you, you, on the other hand, had not answer me why the two building have discrepancies on both picture.

If you run the video the RT reporting "Grilling" the State Department spoke person on the RT website, you will find at least 2 static seams on that video.

The first seam is at 3:07 turning 3:08 you can literally see the Russian Reporter freeze for 1 second then a seamed cut and then cut to the State Department spoke person.

Another is at 3:33. And you will see the exact same footage from 3:11 when she (State Department Spoke person) look to her left but this time cut to an AP reporter.

The video the RT use is a fake, it is a cut and paste job . The RT reporter may have asked the question, but the response is cut on either from the same question or from a different question
 
The strikes hit the town of Ariha, which is controlled by the Army of Conquest, a rebel alliance which includes the Nusra Front, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

I think I do not need to remind you of Nursa Front which is the parent group of ISIS. They are basically Terrorist group which killed and terrorist innocent people. Just becos their name is not ISIS does not mean they are not extremist. So if Al Qaeda is not ISIS then is must be moderate rebel group,right?

Well, according to some fascist (corporatist) Western media, Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham are actually moderates.

When one reads mainstream Western media, one should take this starting point or ideological ground into consideration.

But Russia is doing a hell of a good job at the moment.

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All of which raises a rather obvious question: If this is easy as easy as shooting fish in a barrel – and it sure looks like it – why are there still any such installations and orderly truck columns in the empty desert to bomb in the first place?

The US military claims that such attacks were “minimally effective.” Considering that this was not the case even in 1944, when Allied (primarily US) bombing crippled German mobility despite Germany’s formidable IADS and the much more primitive surveillance and targetting technology of the time, this is implausible. At least the US has since started doing the same thing, after getting named and shamed into doing so at the UN by Putin. (And attempting to attribute Russian strikes on ISIS oil infrastructure to themselves. I wonder if in two generations’ time most Westerners will come to believe the US played the most important role in defeating ISIS, as happened with WW2).

The reason is that the strategy has always been not to decimate Islamic State, but to “funnel” it away from “moderate” rebels towards the SAA. Had that not been the case, ISIS would have never been able to travel across the hundreds of kilometers of open desert to take Palmyra. To add insult to injury, neocon propagandists continually claim (actually: Project) that Assad is in a functional alliance with ISIS, a characterization that was extended to Russia when it waded in.

To be sure there were plenty of Whac-a-Mole type of strikes, but these by themselves are militarily meaningless. Offing individual scumbags such as “Jihadi John” makes for good propaganda, but those guys are a dime a dozen in ISIS. Ultimately, victory lies in regaining ground from the terrorists, and on that front the tide seems to have turned decisively in favor of the SAA.
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Russia’s Intervention in Syria: A Geopolitical Coup? - The Unz Review

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Mission Accomplished: After Russian Warplane Downed Obama Lines up With ISIS Friends

Originally appeared at Consortium News

President Barack Obama – always sensitive to neocon criticism that he’s “weak” – continues to edge the world closer to a nuclear confrontation with Russia as he talks tough and tolerates more provocations against Moscow, now including Turkey’s intentional shoot-down of a Russian warplane along the Turkish-Syrian border.

Rather than rebuke Turkey, a NATO member, for its reckless behavior – or express sympathy to the Russians – Obama instead asserted that “Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and its airspace.”

It was another one of Obama’s breathtaking moments of hypocrisy, since he has repeatedly violated the territorial integrity of various countries, including in Syria where he has authorized bombing without the government’s permission and has armed rebels fighting to overthrow Syria’s secular regime.

Obama’s comment on Turkey’s right to shoot down planes — made during a joint press conference with French President Francois Hollande on Tuesday — was jarring, too, because there was no suggestion that even if the SU-24 jetfighter had strayed briefly into Turkish territory, which the Russians deny, that it was threatening Turkish targets.

Russian President Vladimir Putin angrily called the Turkish attack a “stab in the back delivered by the accomplices of terrorists.” He warned of “serious consequences for Russian-Turkish relations.”

Further provoking the Russians, Turkish-backed Syrian rebels then killed the two Russian pilots by riddling their bodies with bullets after they parachuted from the doomed plane and were floating toward the ground. Another Russian soldier was killed when a U.S.-supplied TOW missile brought down a Russian helicopter on a search-and-rescue mission, according to reports.

But Obama, during the news conference, seemed more interested in demonstrating his disdain for Putin, referring to him at one point by his last name only, without the usual use of a courtesy title, and demeaning the size of Putin’s coalition in helping Syria battle the jihadist rebels.

“We’ve got a coalition of 65 countries who have been active in pushing back against ISIL for quite some time,” Obama said, citing the involvement of countries around the world. “Russia right now is a coalition of two, Iran and Russia, supporting [Syrian President Bashar al-] Assad.”

However, there have been doubts about the seriousness of Obama’s coalition, which includes Sunni countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Turkey, which have been covertly supporting some of the jihadist elements, including Al Qaeda’s Nusra Front and its ally, Ahrar al-Sham.

Syrian rebels, including jihadists fighting with Ahrar al-Sham, have received hundreds of U.S. TOW anti-tank missiles, apparently through Sunni regional powers with what I’ve been told was Obama’s direct approval. The jihadists have celebrated their use of TOWs to kill tank crews of the Syrian army. Yet Obama talks about every country’s right to defend its territory.

Obama and the U.S. mainstream media also have pretended that the only terrorists that need to be fought in Syria are those belonging to the Islamic State (also known as ISIS, ISIL or Daesh), but Al Qaeda’s Nusra Front and its ally, Ahrar al-Sham, which was founded in part by Al Qaeda veterans, make up the bulk of the Turkish-and-Saudi-backed Army of Conquest which was gaining ground – with the help of those American TOW missiles – until Russia intervened with air power at the request of Syrian President Assad in late September.

The SU-24 Shoot-down

As for the circumstances surrounding the Turkish shoot-down of the Russian SU-24, Turkey claimed to have radioed ten warnings over five minutes to the Russian pilots but without getting a response. However, the New York Times reported that a diplomat who attended a NATO meeting in which Turkey laid out its account said “the Russian SU-24 plane was over the Hatay region of Turkey for about 17 seconds when it was struck.”

How those two contradictory time frames matched up was not explained. However, if the 17-second time frame is correct, it appears that Turkey intended to shoot down a Russian plane – whether over its territory or not – to send a message that it would not permit Russia to continue attacking Turkish-backed rebels in Syria.

After shooting down the plane, Turkey sought an emergency NATO meeting to support its attack. Though some NATO members reportedly consider Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan a loose cannon, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg declared that the allies “stand in solidarity with Turkey.”

Further increasing the prospect of a dangerous escalation, NATO has been conducting large-scale military exercises near the Russian border in response to the Ukraine crisis.

Erdogan’s government also appears to have dabbled in dangerous provocations before, including the alleged role of Turkish intelligence in helping jihadist rebels stage a lethal sarin gas attack outside Damascus on Aug. 21, 2013, with the goal of blaming Assad’s military and tricking Obama into launching punitive airstrikes that would have helped clear the way for a jihadist victory.

Obama only pulled back at the last minute amid doubts among U.S. intelligence analysts about who was responsible for the sarin attack. Later evidence pointed to a jihadist provocation with possible Turkish assistance, but the Obama administration has never formally retracted its allegations blaming Assad’s forces.

One motive for Erdogan to go along with the sarin “false flag” attack in 2013 would have been that his two-year campaign to overthrow the Assad government was sputtering, a situation similar to today with the Russian military intervention hammering jihadist positions and putting the Syrian army back on the offensive.

By shooting down a Russian plane and then rushing to NATO with demands for retaliation against Russia, Erdogan is arguably playing a similar game, trying to push the United States and European countries into a direct confrontation with Russia while also sabotaging Syrian peace talks in Vienna – all the better to advance his goal of violently ousting Assad from power.

The Neocon Agenda

Escalating tensions with Russia also plays into the hands of America’s neoconservatives who have viewed past cooperation between Putin and Obama as a threat to the neocon agenda of “regime change,” which began in Iraq in 2003 and was supposed to continue into Syria and Iran with the goal of removing governments deemed hostile to Israel.

After the sarin gas attack in 2013, the prospect for the U.S. bombing Syria and paving the way for Assad’s military defeat looked bright, but Putin and Obama cooperated to defuse the sarin gas crisis. The two teamed up again to advance negotiations to constrain Iran’s nuclear program – a threat to neocon hopes for bombing Iran, too.

However, in late 2013 and early 2014, that promising Putin-Obama collaboration was blasted apart in Ukraine with American neocons playing key roles, including National Endowment for Democracy president Carl Gershman, Sen. John McCain and Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland.

The neocons targeted the elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych, recognizing how sensitive Ukraine was to Russia. The Feb. 22, 2014 coup, which was spearheaded by neo-Nazis and other extreme Ukrainian nationalists, established a fiercely anti-Russian regime in Kiev and provoked what quickly took on the look of a new Cold War.

When the heavily ethnic Russian population of Crimea, which had voted overwhelmingly for Yanukovych, reacted to the coup by voting 96 percent to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia, the neocon-dominated U.S. mainstream media pronounced the referendum a “sham” and the secession a Russian “invasion.” Cold War hysteria followed.

However, in the nearly two years since the Ukraine coup, it has become increasingly clear that the new regime in Kiev is not the shining light that the neocons and the mainstream media pretended it was. It appears to be as corrupt as the old one, if not more so. Plus, livings standards of average Ukrainians have plunged.

The recent flooding of Europe with Syrian refugees over the summer and this month’s Paris terror attacks by Islamic State jihadists also have forced European officials to take events in Syria more seriously, prompting a growing interest in a renewed cooperation with Russia’s Putin.

That did not sit well with ultranationalist Ukrainians angered at the reduced interest in the Ukraine crisis. These activists have forced their dispute with Russia back into the newspapers by destroying power lines supplying electricity to Crimea, throwing much of the peninsula into darkness. Their goal seems to be to ratchet up tensions again between Russia and the West.

Now, Turkey’s shoot-down of the SU-24 and the deliberate murder of the two Russian pilots have driven another wedge between NATO countries and Russia, especially if President Obama and other NATO leaders continue taking Turkey’s side in the incident.

But the larger question – indeed the existential question – is whether Obama will continue bowing to neocon demands for tough talk against Putin even if doing so risks pushing tensions to a level that could spill over into a nuclear confrontation.
 
how long it would take for PDF Pro-Russian member to denied this "outrageous" allegation

"The strikes hit the town of Ariha, which is controlled by the Army of Conquest, a rebel alliance which includes the Nusra Front, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said."


I dont think there is any reason to deny.. On the contrary good riddance.. I dont see any difference from collateral damage in this case to blatantly bombing a hospital killing scores in Afghanistan recently targeting the Al Queda who coincidentally are the patrons of Al Nusra

Are you suggesting selective denials ?


How do you know its really civilian casualities?

In the video, last mins. The spokeswoman is caught lying about bombing of civilian and forced to correct it. o_O

We know Al Jazerra is bought by UAE and UAE hates Russian and is an avid supporter of US. Those western back news agency has a tendency to lie throught media and spread false news.

worse Al Jazeera is Qatari owned one of the main benefactors of ISIS
 
worse Al Jazeera is Qatari owned one of the main benefactors of ISIS

I heard from a former BBC journalist (from an Arab country) that Al Jazeera has in fact a sitting CIA operative among its news editors.

As for Turkey, I would suggest not to trust the US-driven narrative and make a humanitarian case of collateral damage that is so common in air raids in such scale.

The US is known for not only collateral damage in areas where militia is mixed with civilian populations like in Syria, but also in isolated areas in Afghanistan or Yemen where wedding parades were in progress.

Turkey should remember the sanctions the US imposed upon them during the Cypriot War/Operation.

Now, please read:

@Hakan

US bill allows sale of defensive weapons to Cyprus | Myinforms
 
"The strikes hit the town of Ariha, which is controlled by the Army of Conquest, a rebel alliance which includes the Nusra Front, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said."


I dont think there is any reason to deny.. On the contrary good riddance.. I dont see any difference from collateral damage in this case to blatantly bombing a hospital killing scores in Afghanistan recently targeting the Al Queda who coincidentally are the patrons of Al Nusra

Are you suggesting selective denials ?

I am not suggesting selective denials. I am suggesting this has all gone in the wrong way.

As much as I accept there will be collateral airstrike by the coalition in Iraq, there will be one that happened in Syria. I know how air strike works and I myself called for a couple of those during my time in Iraq.

It's beside the point whether or not the pro-Russia member here will see this the way I see it. This is because the whole situation is wrong. People who know how to fight a insurgence will know this is not how you fight ISIS. Set aside whether or not the Russian strike are really hitting ISIS. Let's say that they do, you can bomb them, they will just go underground, you can kill their leader, their number 1, but then 2 number 2 will take his place. If you want to get rid of ISIS, the more people you kill (Whether or not were they civilian or ISIS) is actually not the answer.

We tried to do the killing game in Vietnam, it fail miserably, we then try to do the killing game in Iraq, it work for a while until we left. The problem is, unless Russia determine to stay in Syria FOREVER, once the Russia are gone, ISIS will simply resurface and then it will be bigger and better because they know how you operate.

What should people do? Without addressing the problem of Muslim extremist, the problem is going NO WHERE no matter how many bomb you drop and how many ISIS leader you kill, you are facing an ideology, which is not something you can kill.

My other content is just to make fun with the Chinese member here for opening their mouth when they have zero knowledge on the issue.
 
I am not suggesting selective denials. I am suggesting this has all gone in the wrong way.

As much as I accept there will be collateral airstrike by the coalition in Iraq, there will be one that happened in Syria. I know how air strike works and I myself called for a couple of those during my time in Iraq.

It's beside the point whether or not the pro-Russia member here will see this the way I see it. This is because the whole situation is wrong. People who know how to fight a insurgence will know this is not how you fight ISIS. Set aside whether or not the Russian strike are really hitting ISIS. Let's say that they do, you can bomb them, they will just go underground, you can kill their leader, their number 1, but then 2 number 2 will take his place. If you want to get rid of ISIS, the more people you kill (Whether or not were they civilian or ISIS) is actually not the answer.

We tried to do the killing game in Vietnam, it fail miserably, we then try to do the killing game in Iraq, it work for a while until we left. The problem is, unless Russia determine to stay in Syria FOREVER, once they are gone, ISIS will simply resurface and then it will be bigger and better because they know how you operate.

What should people do? Without addressing the problem of Muslim extremist, the problem is going NO WHERE no matter how many bomb you drop and how many ISIS leader you kill, you are facing an ideology, which is not something you can kill.

A very simple difference mate.. As far as Russians are concerned there are no good terrorists and bad terrorists.. Al Nusra is as culpable as the ISIS.. As far as the Western coalition goes you can select who are the good ones that will benefit your ulterior motives but who will not

As the famous quote from i believe was from Kissinger goes.. " He's a good Bastard as long as he is our bastard"
 
A very simple difference mate.. As far as Russians are concerned there are no good terrorists and bad terrorists.. Al Nusra is as culpable as the ISIS.. As far as the Western coalition goes you can select who are the good ones that will benefit your ulterior motives but who will not

As the famous quote from i believe was from Kissinger goes.. " He's a good Bastard as long as he is our bastard"

lol, as far as I concern, all 5 parties in Syrian Civil war were terrorist, including Assad regime. So, actually, there are still "good terrorist" for the Russian. Their group is Assad group.

You can say yeah, so what, they are in charged, but the question would come back for the Russian is that, there have to be a ground reason for a civil war to broke out in the first place. And that reason is none other than Assad himself.

For Russia, they don't care, they simply support their fraction and in the way, they will need to kill everyone that does not support Assad. Unless this is actually what Russia can do, otherwise they are not doing Syria any favour, just by bombing some rebel hide out, they are doing what Line-backer done to the North Vietnamese back to Vietnam war.

The problem is, if Russia did go thru with the plan on killing all others that opposite Assad regime, even if Russia succeed in doing it, there won't be a "Syria" left. So, in a way, it is not as far as Russia concern, there are no good or bad terrorist, Russia simply don't care. And it would be a lose-lose situation for Syria if you cannot see that already.
 
lol, as far as I concern, all 5 parties in Syrian Civil war were terrorist, including Assad regime. So, actually, there are still "good terrorist" for the Russian. Their group is Assad group.

You can say yeah, so what, they are in charged, but the question would come back for the Russian is that, there have to be a ground reason for a civil war to broke out in the first place. And that reason is none other than Assad himself.

For Russia, they don't care, they simply support their fraction and in the way, they will need to kill everyone that does not support Assad. Unless this is actually what Russia can do, otherwise they are not doing Syria any favour, just by bombing some rebel hide out, they are doing what Line-backer done to the North Vietnamese back to Vietnam war.

The problem is, if Russia did go thru with the plan on killing all others that opposite Assad regime, even if Russia succeed in doing it, there won't be a "Syria" left. So, in a way, it is not as far as Russia concern, there are no good or bad terrorist, Russia simply don't care. And it would be a lose-lose situation for Syria if you cannot see that already.

Mate you yet again reinforced my argument.. Again being selective by ulterior motives, Besides your personal opinion the Assad govt is a the legitimate government of the Syrian people.. The government they elected to represent them, By they i meant the majority.. Now you can come up with questions about the legality of those elections.. But the others groups does not even have that limited legitimacy.. Even less so for the US allies in the Gulf Saudi Arabia or Qatar.. So just because the US wanted regime change in Syria at the behest of the Israeli's or because the Assad regime as strong ties with Iran and Russia which is a major impediment to Saudi/ Qatari Wahhabi designs in the region though it's proxy the ISIS

Now dont get me wrong Assad is no angel and im no big fan.. But compared with with the US allies in the region the only thing he has over them is the affinity to a more secular regime

The majority of the world would rather have a dysfunctional Syria under Assad than one that will be controlled by the extremist proxies of the Saudi's thank you
 
*shrug* pure fluff rhetoric of your own imagining.

not much to reply to except the failed meme of oil. a common fringe theory, of which you can provide no evidence.

In anycase it is without doubt that Russia does not care about civilian casualties. Not surprised at the double standard.
Open your closed Mind and see had Assad got agreed for gas pipeline from syria (Oman to europe) ISIS and its sisters organizations, Travailing i open brand new SUVs would never come into exists.
 
Mate you yet again reinforced my argument.. Again being selective by ulterior motives, Besides your personal opinion the Assad govt is a the legitimate government of the Syrian people.. The government they elected to represent them, By they i meant the majority.. Now you can come up with questions about the legality of those elections.. But the others groups does not even have that limited legitimacy.. Even less so for the US allies in the Gulf Saudi Arabia or Qatar.. So just because the US wanted regime change in Syria at the behest of the Israeli's or because the Assad regime as strong ties with Iran and Russia which is a major impediment to Saudi/ Qatari Wahhabi designs in the region though it's proxy the ISIS

Now dont get me wrong Assad is no angel and im no big fan.. But compared with with the US allies in the region the only thing he has over them is the affinity to a more secular regime

The majority of the world would rather have a dysfunctional Syria under Assad than one that will be controlled by the extremist proxies of the Saudi's thank you

That's where you are wrong, because it does not matter what I think or what you think or what the Russia think or what the American think. What the Syrian think is the only thing that count. You can claim US/Saudi want to do this or want to do that, but without someone within Syria think that way too, there are no way US and Saudi can take control of the situation.

I am commenting on the situation on the ground, I did not believe I took side on this issue. The question is, what Russia do does not matter to the geopolitical situation in the area, as they are a visiting force, so did Saudi, so did the US. It does not really what anybody think in the end. Because the most important issue here is what the Syrian themselves want, to be specific, what all the party wanted. If the Syrian want to be under Assad Control in a dysfunctional Syria, then there would not be a root cause to continue the civil war, but if they don't then Civil War will continue.

What Russia currently doing is a non-factor, it does not matter what Russia did, Russia is a bi-partisan on the issue, again, it is up to the Syrian of all fraction, not Russia to stop the civil war.
 
I still believe Mr. Putin is going soft.

But the new situation might eventually lead to this:

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