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Concerning the Fall of Constantinople...

Actually:

"Several factors appear to have been behind this process. Most important was that Christianity had relatively shallow roots in Bosnia prior to the Ottoman domination. Bosnia lacked a strong Christian church organization to command a strong following—the result of a scarcity of priests and competition among the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches and schismatic Bosnian Church, which collapsed shortly before the Ottomans arrived. This left most people religiously unengaged and receptive to the appeal of Islam’s institutions. This receptiveness was aided by the development among many people of a kind of folk Christianity centered on various practices and ceremonies that was adaptable to a form of folk Islam popular at the time of the invasion."

"One theory as to why conversion to Islam was more prevalent in Bosnia than other places in the Balkans is the possibility that the Bosnian Church practiced bogomilism. Bogomilism was regarded as a major dualistic heresy by the Catholic Church and against whom Pope John XXII even launched a Crusade in 1325. Thus many adherents of the Bosnian Church were more receptive to conversion to Islam. In fact, in the Bogomilian tradition, there were several practices that resembled Islam: they rejected the veneration of the Virgin Mary, repudiated the Cross as a religious symbol, they considered it as idolatry to bow down before religious images, relics or saints, and even prayed five times a day (reciting the Lord's Prayer.)"
I down think People fo Bosnia converted to Islam any more or less than people of other parts of europe, like Serbia or Greece or Hungary or Bulgaria. Its just that the Cristians never managed to get rid of the Muslims in Bosnia like they did in Serbia or Greece. Dont forget that large parts of all these balkan countries were muslim and they were all killed and expelled. Only in Bosnia and Albania did they put up a fight and manage to hold on despite the odds.

One thing that helped Bosnia was being taken over by Austria who prevented the Serbs from expelling all the Muslims. The serbs simple didnt have the power and Austrians had no problems with the muslims in Bosnia as they were not a threat to them.

After the Austrians were kicked out of Bosnia, a Serbian king tried to get rid of all the Muslims, Zimbabwe style, by taking all their land. but thankfully this Serbian king was replaced by hitler, who just hated the serbs, and to a great degree got rid of them instead.

So muslims in Bosnia were probably saved in part by their own willingness to fight. by the mountainous terrain by the Austrian empire and by nazi Germany.

And of course by the communist dictator Tito, who made everyone forget ethnic hatreds for 45 years.

And after that they were saved by their heroic fight and by bill Clinton and USA.

It's always someone or some historical tectonic shift that saved them. And now they are not going anywhere.
 
I down think People fo Bosnia converted to Islam any more or less than people of other parts of europe, like Serbia or Greece or Hungary or Bulgaria. Its just that the Cristians never managed to get rid of the Muslims in Bosnia like they did in Serbia or Greece.
Well the Bosnian Muslims rose against the Ottomans too and demanded independence in the end. There was no reason to fight against them,since they didn't support the Ottomans during the Balkan Wars,if i remember correctly.

Dont forget that large parts of all these balkan countries were muslim and they were all killed and expelled. Only in Bosnia and Albania did they put up a fight and manage to hold on despite the odds.
Don't forget that these lands were invaded by the Ottomans and Christians were often massacred in the Balkans.
Albanians rose up against the Ottomans too and became independent,just like the Bosnian Muslims. They were given a State by Austria and that's how they survived. But Albanians also had a lot of Christians too. Orthodox and Catholic.
 
Well the Bosnian Muslims rose against the Ottomans too and demanded independence in the end. There was no reason to fight against them,since they didn't support the Ottomans during the Balkan Wars,if i remember correctly.
its was a thing back then, One of the reasons Bosnians rebelled was because the Christians were granted too many rights by the sultan.
Don't forget that these lands were invaded by the Ottomans and Christians were often massacred in the Balkans.
Albanians rose up against the Ottomans too and became independent,just like the Bosnian Muslims. They were given a State by Austria and that's how they survived. But Albanians also had a lot of Christians too. Orthodox and Catholic.
Albanians were luckier in a way that they had nothing in common with serbs so it was either independence or genocide like with the Circassians. They got independence.

We bosnians were taken over by Austrians. mainly due to our proximity to them. And while serbs could not get our land they managed to convince most of our Christians that they were no longer Bosnians but serbs instead. in the mid 1800's there were no serbs or croats in Bosnia. they called themselves Bosniaks. Nationality and religion in the balkans is very fluid. Many Bosniaks became Serbs and croats, many germans became croats, many turks became Bosniaks or Serbs. Many people are just mixed and became Bosnians. Its estimated that 33% of Croatia is originally catholic Bosniaks. They know this and admit it. Mediaval Bosnian kings were catholic and called themselves Bosniaks. They could have called themselves Croats, but they didnt, ethnically there were most likely a slavic-German mix.

Take ethnicity in our area with a grain of salt.
 
I thought they were Bogomils ;)
maybe some. and maybe secretly, but Vatican and Hungary were strongly opposed to this and enforced catholicism in exchange for the right to be recognised as king,

but we were always independent and strong minded people. the catholic kings would not oppress the bogumils. As I said its all very fluid there. people dont take dictates of any central authority very well. even today.
 
maybe some. and maybe secretly, but Vatican and Hungary were strongly opposed to this and enforced catholicism in exchange for the right to be recognised as king,

but we were always independent and strong minded people. the catholic kings would not oppress the bogumils. As I said its all very fluid there. people dont take dictates of any central authority very well. even today.
Now back on topic,what would you say to your compatriot who said above that Constantinople was not conquered,but liberated? :P
 
Now back on topic,what would you say to your compatriot who said above that Constantinople was not conquered,but liberated? :P
there are reasons why Bosnians are stereotyped as stupid in most jokes. unfortunately in all wars our inteltigensia was killed first and we have what we have.

But of course any orthodox people who are not aligned with the west are our enemies and we will say things that we think will annoy them.

any greek or serb that sides with russia is just incomprehensible to me. they are greatly misguided and do themselves no favours. even mist Russians in Ukraine have turned against russia, I know a few personally.
 
there are reasons why Bosnians are stereotyped as stupid in most jokes. unfortunately in all wars our inteltigensia was killed first and we have what we have.

But of course any orthodox people who are not aligned with the west are our enemies and we will say things that we think will annoy them.

any greek or serb that sides with russia is just incomprehensible to me. they are greatly misguided and do themselves no favours. even mist Russians in Ukraine have turned against russia, I know a few personally.
Why do Bosniaks and Azeris support Turkey? ;) It's the same thing.
 
Ottoman sultan told the Safavi Shah of Iran, who had a Greek wife:

“ We took Greeks as slave and f ed them, Hahaha”

“We sold the family members of your wife,
bi gheirat, hahaha”
 
Why do Bosniaks and Azeris support Turkey? ;) It's the same thing.
Russia is an international pariah. There is no value in supporting them. we would not support turkey that goes rouge and is internationally isolated, or if it threatens world security like Russia is doing.

I dont mind if greeks and serbs support russia, I encourage it as its to their detriment, I just dont understand it.
 
There is no value in supporting them. we would not support turkey that goes rouge and is internationally isolated, or if it threatens world security like Russia is doing.
But Turkey did exactly that.
 
But Turkey did exactly that.
Where? In Cyprus? I think they had legitimate reason to take the northern part. And besides turkey doesn’t threaten the world order. It’s simply not powerful enough.
 
Where? In Cyprus? I think they had legitimate reason to take the northern part. And besides turkey doesn’t threaten the world order. It’s simply not powerful enough.
No,I'm talking about Erdoğan's behavior and foreign policy the just 5-6 years
 
No,I'm talking about Erdoğan's behavior and foreign policy the just 5-6 years
I don't see a problem with it. He basically checked Russia as it tried to expand its influence in Syria, Libya and other places. He clashed with autocracies in Egypt, Saudi, and Syria.

And he did all this with approval from the USA more or less.

He opened bases in Qatar and Somalia. These a fantastic things. Turkey was a beacon of stability.

He helped Azerbaijan kick Armenia out of most of its territory and prevented Greece from expanding its maritime boundary contrary to 100 year old peace treaties.

I don't know that I would have done any different in each situation.
 
That seems a load of bullshit. Ofcourse the defeated ones would make up these stories to show they were barbarians. In today's world, what would ukranian say abt russian invasion? Yes a lot of exaggeration. Now if centuries passed, this exaggeration would multiply several times.
Muslims have mostly been humane, one example is salhuddin ayubi. The stories told by westerners are nothing more than bullshit.
 

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