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China-Pak in MoU to develop stealth variant of JF-17 Thunder

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our own radar which right now has most components made in India and uses an Israeli processor.

Just one question.....You guys can make anything...Damn you guys even launched indigenous Satellite. 5 of them. Then why can't you guys make one Radar processor. Why you need Israeli radar processor.? There must be some processor on those satellite too? or you put them on Orbit without any chips or processors?
 
Time to call in the mods :mod:

Please stop derailing this thread.
 
Sure i am the culprit for trying to make you understand that a JF-17 can be stealthy. Arrest me mods. :bounce:
I never said JF 17 can't be made more 'stealthy', just that it won't be a 'stealth' plane. In fact I haven't even touched the stealth part since gambit clarified that there is ambiguity in defining it. You went on (& still are) ranting about the LCA & how you are using Isreali radar & how you are being offered F 35.
 
Just one question.....You guys can make anything...Damn you guys even launched indigenous Satellite. 5 of them. Then why can't you guys make one Radar processor. Why you need Israeli radar processor.? There must be some processor on those satellite too? or you put them on Orbit without any chips or processors?
When you go lecturing on indigenous components, you may also want to reflect upon whether it is economically feasible to bring out a component that'll be used only in 200 units? But my guess is that some design work is still on. They won't leave critical tech out of scope.
 
Originally Posted by Ramu...
When Indian programs succeed they are no longer Indian effort to build alone but a foreign program. When the project is delayed, it is an Indian project.

Good ... I am slowly understanding the Pak mindset.

thanks for correction, so now We should say that India is having hard time in developing LCA even with the help of Dassault(which means France) , in its Indegenous project!

just kidding..
 
We haven't spent time reinventing anything. We experimented with new materials and mastered the tech (which you haven't done yet)
be concrete what materials are you referring to if you're talking about the composites....then as per our member nabil (one of the most informed source on JFT IMHO) has already indicated that even current JFTs have decent amount of composite materials on them
created our own engines that performs to orginal specs though not to the new specs (the same as above)our own radar which right now has most components made in India and uses an Israeli processor. We spent time building AESA tech (which gives us our Awacs), we visited our windtunnels well over 7000 times to learn how to make a combat plane fly. We set up a whole new test facility for flight testing. We feel an acute need now to set up a high altitude test facility (And I hope we build that one too).
as per my information Kaveri is still underdevelopment and manufacturer is looking for a foreign partnership (P&W) APMI. PAF did not make any compromise on radar....PAC has long been running a radar factory and will be making Grifo radars under license and going forward JFT radar under licensing agreements as well(talking conservative) enhancing its exposure in this field...
That's how REAL tech base is built. Plus, if there is a war, we will be far less vulnerable to spares and servicing problems if critical elements are in house. Plus we create JOBS, we used the LCA tech to build rockets, missiles and even prostheics for medical uses. We sold the CAD/ CAM software to infosys so that they can market it to the international industry. the kaveri will also be used in war ships (look at the money we save), didn't have a problem designing UAV engines coz of the experience.
In short....here is a simple answer about PAF's strategy
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be concrete what materials are you referring to if you're talking about the composites....then as per our member nabil (one of the most informed source on JFT IMHO) has already indicated that even current JFTs have decent amount of composite materials on them

as per my information Kaveri is still underdevelopment and manufacturer is looking for a foreign partnership (P&W) APMI. PAF did not make any compromise on radar....PAC has long been running a radar factory and will be making Grifo radars under license and going forward JFT radar under licensing agreements as well(talking conservative) enhancing its exposure in this field...

In short....here is a simple answer about PAF's strategy

a. In my earlier post I have referred to 'increasing the proportion of composites' in JF 17 so I'm aware of JF17's composites presence (though not the ratio). But what's the specific difference I'm reffering to? The entire frame of LCA is made of composites including 95% of external skin to give it low RCS. This makes the plane 40% composite by weight. So you build the plane's structure with composites and throw in the engines, the avionics etc. with as few use of metals as possible. And we did this way back in 2001 when LCA's first prototype flew. Look at all major Indian aerospace projects:

'Light' Combat Aircraft
Advanced 'Light' Helicopter
'Light' Combat Helicopter

The'Light' part is used not only to indicate the tonnage/class in which they operate (ALH will not be that light in tonnage anyway), but also to indicate that they are made of composite light materials (the entire frame and not just some parts). With or without the LCA we've made hundreds of flying platforms with this tech (ALH/dhruv alone will run into hundreds)
Our new proposed civilian airline RTA 70 & the now flying SARAS also use light composites for their entire frame. GSLV Mark 3 is set to follow in these steps though I beleive the current GSLV too uses lots of composites (I don't know how much)

b. Kaveri, as I said, works as per the original specs not the new specs. Though I'm also tempted to ask how a smaller plane with lower combat range (and therefore lesser fuel) finds a comparable engine with JF 17 'underpowered' because I think even with 10% higher thrust the chinese engine will deliver about 55Kn of thrust, i won't ask it now because 92Kn for LCA as an Indian member said seems to be on the higher side. the 'under development' part is because the IAF now wants way way more thrust that the original specs.

c. You have to take a call. there is also an inherent risk in not having at least critical components in home. For us, it's never just about the final product, it's also about the capability. L&T, for instance, was a consutruction and high engineering major. They were drafted to build the hulls for nuke subs. That's how they built up ship building skills and then they decided to expand to ship building themselves. They've invested 1 Bn in one of Asia's largest ship yard and opened their order books with some 200 m worth of orders (who would question the ship building credibility of a company that's built nuke subs?). And that's how the money comes back over time. Same thing with LCA- Develop key tech and use it all over.
 
'Light' Combat Aircraft
Advanced 'Light' Helicopter


b. Kaveri, as I said, works as per the original specs not the new specs. Though I'm also tempted to ask how a smaller plane with lower combat range (and therefore lesser fuel) finds a comparable engine with JF 17 'underpowered' because I think even with 10% higher thrust the chinese engine will deliver about 55Kn of thrust, i won't ask it now because 92Kn for LCA as an Indian member said seems to be on the higher side. the 'under development' part is because the IAF now wants way way more thrust that the original specs.

For you man go to : http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...powered-ws-13-engine-carries-taxi-trials.html

And remember that JF-17 is going to utilize the composite very very soon which will reduce its weight by 500kg and with 100K.N WS-13 it will do Mach 2.0. And there are chinese developed radars that we are getting and may be with our own BVR.:sniper:
:pakistan::cheers::china:
:smitten::smitten::smitten:
 
Indian thinks that pakistani are illitrate , poor , non technical people, we haven't any single factory in 1947 and nw look where we are, on the other india inhiritent whole british indian empire factorys . Even they deny our share to us
 
You know while you can proudly look at something which is on paper, we Pakistanis can proudly look at something which is not only active in duty but also drawing a lot of attention and attracting international costumers. So let me ask again what Nabil asked earlier......where does LCA stand?
So before you challenge us, at least make sure the jet gets inducted first in the IAF.


See If You are talking about Joint ventures, then I can talk about the MKI version of Sukhoi 30 which Runs On Indian avionics and Electronic Warfare suit.... Modified Airframe with Canards....

But LCA stands Indigenous, It takes Time for Indigenous products to Shape... But please dont call JF-17 Yours as Can You point out atleast one component yours other than the airframe, so that you can call it Indigenous atleast to 1%....

Well I on the Other hand can list out Each and every Component of LCA made by India.... at the same time, can You for Your so called Indigenous fighter???
 
Indian thinks that pakistani are illitrate , poor , non technical people, we haven't any single factory in 1947 and nw look where we are, on the other india inhiritent whole british indian empire factorys . Even they deny our share to us

See first of all its Not our problem U dint have Factories.... We did not divide u, You yourself Did, We as a nation are One day younger than you... and Next about funds? you still owe us the 300crore rs as pre partition debt....

May I know what are the Indian factories which inherit British??? Sorry Only now the head of East India company is an Indian
 
Indian thinks that pakistani are illitrate , poor , non technical people, we haven't any single factory in 1947 and nw look where we are, on the other india inhiritent whole british indian empire factorys . Even they deny our share to us

Well if they do think we're poor, then they're hypocrites cause theres way more poverty in india then in all of Pakistan. Anyways who cares what they think, we shouldn't go off topic.
 
Atleast we have guts to say we made JF 17 with China, it was a joint venture, Indians on the other say LCA is entirely there own while its inputs are all foreign made

If LCA was entirely your own then I bet it wud have taken atleast another decade:lol:

Can any senior member here tell me, If JF-17 is a JV between China and Pakistan, What components PAK has developed for JF-17 program. Pls share the reliable source with components name and its details which are manufactured by Pak on its own.
 
Indian Devil first of all if Senior Pakistani and Chinese officials have stated that the JF-17 is a joint project, then who are you to question them, were you physically involved in the project.

Furthermore why would PAF broadcast its capabillities, when it can have the element of surprise, we don't want Indian's to know what Pakistan is capable of, we have nothing to prove to you

Fact is we have a fully functional mean machine, that has caught the eyes of many Airforces around the world, and based upon this assumption I can feel a atmosphere of jealously coming from you Indians, do us a favour and take a chill pill.

Also you Indians want links to prove Pakistan's contribution on the JF-17, well you wont find them, because it's state secret, but some Pakistani have the honour of knowing friends who have worked on the Project, who have told them what Pakistan has done with China, and Quite frankly that is none of your bussiness.
 
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