Carpet industry in dire straits as Afghan weavers leave Pakistan

[OrionHunter]

We'll live!

Afghans should make their carpets in Afghanistan.

How about flying carpets?

 

[A-Team]

Where was bangladesh ? thousand of KM way with not much force and problems for logistic and you were our neighbor .What india could not do it in 1965 how could you do it then ?By the way if you had tried you will be treated as same in 1950 at Dobandi area, 1951 khyber agency and 1961 at bajur.jundal &khyber. .History is cruel not one sided .I am not starting from Said Akbar Babrak .

You and I know we could have done you real damage, you having thousands of captive soldiers in Bangladesh, India in a state of war with you and ingressing via her border and us from the other side. It would have been one sided but anyways let's not quarrel over this here but I am just trying to make a point here.

Where was bangladesh ? thousand of KM way with not much force and problems for logistic and you were our neighbor .What india could not do it in 1965 how could you do it then ?By the way if you had tried you will be treated as same in 1950 at Dobandi area, 1951 khyber agency and 1961 at bajur.jundal &khyber. .History is cruel not one sided .I am not starting from Said Akbar Babrak .

One more thing I don't know much about the Dobanid area or khyber agency episodes, probably there were incursions but I am here referring to full fledged war and full fledged invasion. Fighting wars on two fronts, when you have lost half of your country is one mighty undertaking if you know what I mean.

 

[Spring Onion]

Ca


EGO on boths sides have you ever asked why the Afghans are pissed off and not toeing to Pakistani dictates?
Well for starters Pakistan wants a complete control over Afghan foreign policy which of course Afghanistan does not accept and thus the Talis are sent.

It is a two-way traffic. Afghanistan wants to have an anti-Pakistan foreign policy (Well and good that is your right. Now it is fine till this point that Afghanistan wants an anti-Pakistan foreign policy), BUT Afghanistan at the same wants that Pakistan should run this Afghan foreign policy by allowing Indian backed anti-Pakistan activities which is BTW not at all acceptable to Pakistan and Pakistanis.

 

[ali_raza]

You and I know we could have done you real damage, you having thousands of captive soldiers in Bangladesh, India in a state of war with you and ingressing via her border and us from the other side. It would have been one sided but anyways let's not quarrel over this here but I am just trying to make a point here.



One more thing I don't know much about the Dobanid area or khyber agency episodes, probably there were incursions but I am here referring to full fledged war and full fledged invasion. Fighting wars on two fronts, when you have lost half of your country is one mighty undertaking if you know what I mean.

i see u dear dodging many direct questions.i must say all ur hopes are on modi.how much u can servive on khairat we will see.btw I talked with someone he said this is exactly what we wanted.everything going as we planned.u were our headache for 30 years.now suddenly we willbe relieved from hosting millions of refugees.still u guys had a love in population wich u lost being indian stooges.u guys think u can have ur cake and eat it too.and about taliban.can u tell me any major pashtoon entity in ur country.it was all natural.look at turkey they went inside syria.did we invaded u?
i must say this is high time u guys should delete the name pakistan from ur minds.no more thats our policy.take it or leave it.be ready to handle 4 million of ur people

 

[Darth Vader]

Thank you for the biased history lesson

BTW I have to check my references but I remeber Z.Bhutto traveling to Afghanistan to thank Afghan leadership for staying neutral when India and Pakistan were in the middle of a significant war ( which Pakistan lost), if we wanted we could have have invaded from the other side and tore another piece out of you.

So it is nice to read a neutral history and not the one taught by GHQ

@pakistani342 : I remeber having this somewhere in my notes, where Zia traveled to Afghanistan specifically to thank Afghanistan for not taking advantage of the India-Pak war and stayed neutral. Do you have any references on this episode ?

@Sher Malang : FYI, if you any references on this episode ?

If you wanted ? , wanted with what Soviets were the holding your armies leash . Pakistan had somewhat support of Uncle Sam
The only thing they could do , they already did by supporting separatist which didnt paid off and 70s Afghan army was two busy slaughtering Afghan citizens so please

I m talking about neutral history and facts are from neutral history
As For 65s war In my view no one was the winner and it doesn't matter yes in 71 India is the clear winner

As since when Afghan ask for neutral statements when all of your posts end up blaming Pakistan

 

[asena_great]

“90 percent of the carpet weavers in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa are Afghans,” .

90 percent of the carpet weavers in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa are turkmens

 

[A-Team]

90 percent of the carpet weavers in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa are turkmens

I dont know where you go that 90 percent figure, but you do know they are Afghan turkmens.

 

[pakistani342]

Thank you for the biased history lesson

@A-Team -- please refute it point by point -- and let's fall back to resources -- every time I ask you to do that you are a no show -- as surprisingly are other Afghans.

There is a prominent Afghan who at the end said we'll we're not proud of our PDPA government.

Again -- do enlighten Pakistanis -- maybe the history is wrong ... but let us do it point by point ... I welcome it.

BTW I have to check my references but I remeber Z.Bhutto traveling to Afghanistan to thank Afghan leadership for staying neutral when India and Pakistan were in the middle of a significant war ( which Pakistan lost), if we wanted we could have have invaded from the other side and tore another piece out of you.

Again ask yourself -- Pakistanis have to thank Afghans for not attacking them -- it is like a victim thanking a murderer for not killing them -- do you see the flaw in the logic.

And on the other hand for helping Afghan refugees -- Afghans say you did it for your own interest.

Again -- I welcome a point by point discussion.

Further -- had Afghanistan attacked it would not have caused any existential harm: Does Afghanistan possess mechanized/airborne divisions. Is the Pak/Afghan border conducive to an invasion ... even very powerful militaries have problems running expeditionary missions ... it requires logistics not tactics. This is a simple folly which even Oxford educated Afghans will not concerned. For example can Pakistan mount any meaningful invasion of Afghanistan -- it cannot -- it simply does not possess the logistic wherewithall.

So it is nice to read a neutral history and not the one taught by GHQ

My brother -- this is beneath you -- give credit where it is due -- Pakistanis do far more research on Afghanistan than Afghans do on Pakistan. As a small anecdote I was surprised why you compared Nashenas to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. Pakistanis are ahead of the Afghans in the scholarship game (as Indians are ahead of Pakistan) -- there is a reason the Junrails have been able to sack Kabul without crossing the Druand line [they study Afghanistan -- it would help a lot of the Afghans studied Pakistanis too]

For example the Afghans say we're closed to Indians in terms of culture. The litmus test is who can you marry for closeness -- who can you marry and the children would be considered legitimate by society -- this is considered the final test. An Afghan author who publishes news columns [even in Pakistani english newspapers] said that he found it surprising that Pakistanis Muslims would disapprove of their daughter dating a Skih and approve if she married a Muslim from Ghana. I asked him what would happen if it was his daughter: he got upset at me - unbelievable.

Look -- I think the deficit here is on Afghans. They will refuse a point by point discussion.

We can for example create a wiki to do this and I invite you and other Afghans to participate. We will present our arguments on each point and have questions open.

I am trained to prove mathematical theorems -- trust me -- unless you have advanced training in Philosophy or Law, you don't stand a chance in the mechanics of argument (not the content).

How about that I formally challenge you ... do you accept?

@pakistani342 : I remeber having this somewhere in my notes, where Zia traveled to Afghanistan specifically to thank Afghanistan for not taking advantage of the India-Pak war and stayed neutral. Do you have any references on this episode ?

Again even if he did -- it is irrelevant. Do you not understand that if say Zia thanks Najeebullah -- by itself it has no relevance. What is relevant is that Afghans think they did Pakistan a favor by not raping them -- it's called blaming the victim? Don't feel bad -- societies have been blaming women for getting raped for millenia now -- you are not alone?

@Sher Malang : FYI, if you any references on this episode ?[/QUOTE]

 

[A-Team]

@A-Team -- please refute it point by point -- and let's fall back to resources -- every time I ask you to do that you are a no show -- as surprisingly are other Afghans.

There is a prominent Afghan who at the end said we'll we're not proud of our PDPA government.

Again -- do enlighten Pakistanis -- maybe the history is wrong ... but let us do it point by point ... I welcome it.



Again ask yourself -- Pakistanis have to thank Afghans for not attacking them -- it is like a victim thanking a murderer for not killing them -- do you see the flaw in the logic.

And on the other hand for helping Afghan refugees -- Afghans say you did it for your own interest.

Again -- I welcome a point by point discussion.

Further -- had Afghanistan attacked it would not have caused any existential harm: Does Afghanistan possess mechanized/airborne divisions. Is the Pak/Afghan border conducive to an invasion ... even very powerful militaries have problems running expeditionary missions ... it requires logistics not tactics. This is a simple folly which even Oxford educated Afghans will not concerned. For example can Pakistan mount any meaningful invasion of Afghanistan -- it cannot -- it simply does not possess the logistic wherewithall.



My brother -- this is beneath you -- give credit where it is due -- Pakistanis do far more research on Afghanistan than Afghans do on Pakistan. As a small anecdote I was surprised why you compared Nashenas to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. Pakistanis are ahead of the Afghans in the scholarship game (as Indians are ahead of Pakistan) -- there is a reason the Junrails have been able to sack Kabul without crossing the Druand line [they study Afghanistan -- it would help a lot of the Afghans studied Pakistanis too]

For example the Afghans say we're closed to Indians in terms of culture. The litmus test is who can you marry for closeness -- who can you marry and the children would be considered legitimate by society -- this is considered the final test. An Afghan author who publishes news columns [even in Pakistani english newspapers] said that he found it surprising that Pakistanis Muslims would disapprove of their daughter dating a Skih and approve if she married a Muslim from Ghana. I asked him what would happen if it was his daughter: he got upset at me - unbelievable.

Look -- I think the deficit here is on Afghans. They will refuse a point by point discussion.

We can for example create a wiki to do this and I invite you and other Afghans to participate. We will present our arguments on each point and have questions open.

I am trained to prove mathematical theorems -- trust me -- unless you have advanced training in Philosophy or Law, you don't stand a chance in the mechanics of argument (not the content).

How about that I formally challenge you ... do you accept?

@pakistani342 : I remeber having this somewhere in my notes, where Zia traveled to Afghanistan specifically to thank Afghanistan for not taking advantage of the India-Pak war and stayed neutral. Do you have any references on this episode ?

Again even if he did -- it is irrelevant. Do you not understand that if say Zia thanks Najeebullah -- by itself it has no relevance. What is relevant is that Afghans think they did Pakistan a favor by not raping them -- it's called blaming the victim? Don't feel bad -- societies have been blaming women for getting raped for millenia now -- you are not alone?

@Sher Malang : FYI, if you any references on this episode ?

[/QUOTE]

Frankly I welcome point-by-point discussion because that way I can actually learn something as well, my presence is here is both to showcase our point of view and also learn from the other side as well.

The only constraint is time ( personal and work ), probably we can do this one of the Friday-Saturdays and then go over this one-by-one.

I know you have done your homework and been doing this for a while, while I do this part time so not sure if this is going to be fair exercise but hey I will learn something

/Peace

 

[pakistani342]

So imagine this, 1971 war Pakistan is super busy because of its involvement in Bangladesh crises, people have revolted, Indian army has crossed over the border and have also provided assistance and then you hear news that Afghan forces have crossed over the durand line and approaching Peshawar, there is a complete harmony of the operations between India and Afghanistan. You hear that your military has surrendered in Bangladesh, the moral is low, and Afghanistan is operating at its full strength. You see the odds were not in your favor.

Now whether you consider that a favor, good will or plain stupidity on our part you be the judge

/Peace

How would the Afghan army reach Peshawar -- are you out of your mind -- Do you think the Pakistani people would not resist -- The Pakistani Army could not reach and hold the extremities of Kabul today.

You do know that both Indian and Pakistani armies whose officers in 1971 had fought at theater level ranks in WWII had problems coordinating their internal units.

Afghan Army was good at parades in Kabul.

Have you seen what the Iraqi people did to our US forces in the Iraq? And you think the Afghan Army would march into Peshawar? Do you think China would remain neutral?

For Afghan transgression of 1947 to 1974 -- look what price Pakistan has extracted from Afghanistan -- imagine what would have happened if Afghanistan would have crossed the Druand line with any depth? Are Afghans out of theirs minds?

As a corollary Afghan senior brass told and American brass (I've posted this here with references) that they need a formation incase Pakistan decided to attack Kabul -- the American laughed -- come back to planet Earth for your own sakes please.

Frankly I welcome point-by-point discussion because that way I can actually learn something as well, my presence is here is both to showcase our point of view and also learn from the other side as well.

The only constraint is time ( personal and work ), probably we can do this one of the Friday-Saturdays and then go over this one-by-one.

I know you have done your homework and been doing this for a while, while I do this part time so not sure if this is going to be fair exercise but hey I will learn something

/Peace

Again like you I want myself to learn -- and Pakistanis

yes yes this is not something we do in a day -- this could take weeks -- months -- nothing will be sacred -- we can redefine positions -- take arguments back.

It's not a school year brawl -- it is to figure out where we are -- we don't even need to agree.

It is like a math proof or a philosophical argument by a logician.

 

[xyxmt]

I did not even know Pakistan had carpet indstry, 8 years ago i went to Pakistan and thought i buy a hand knotted carpet, went to many stores in Sadar all i could find was Afghan and Iranian carpets, when inquired about Pakistani Carpets i was told they are very hard to find as no one is making it anymore.

 

[Darth Vader]

@pakistani342
@H!TchHiker
@A-Team You Dont Much About War either thats why You Keep Repeating your Silly fantasy About Afghanistan Invading Pakistan Army , For that You Needed Major Air Group , Which Could Provide You Cover and Logistics and Transport Troops Else The Other way was The Use Of Tribal area and You would have to Move a major element to Capture and control that area of Pakistan

Few Silly Mistakes To Remind you Why in the last 67 years Afghanistan wasn't able to capture Pakistani Land
1 Invading Army Would End Up Fighting With Tribes of Pashtoon in that area in which Afghanistan Would have been Divided into 2 Parts While 1 Supporting Afghanistan while Others Supporting Pakistan because of Pashtoons of Pakistani And Close Relations While on the other hand Pakistani Tribes most probably would have Joined Against invading Forces Which Could have caused Series Problems For Logistics Support and Neither was Afghan Army that Strong to Deploy that big of number or Sustain a war
Because its a simple math Invading Army Always need to be 7 time than defending because
1 the Fear of Unknown
2 Problem with Logistics
3 Not Knowing the Area
4 Not Able to Differentiate between enemy and civilian there other Points too these are the major Problems are any invading

When USSR invaded Afghanistan they were Spending around 1 Million Dollar Each Day Could Afghanistan Support that even if Its Was Achieving Victory in Pakistan No It was Never Possible Even If Afghanistan Deploy its Forces against Pakistan they Cant Do any thing , you Need to Just Check News Every day Afghani are leaving Army , Police
Taliban Hold Majority Of Afghan Territory

Yes India Is Your Friend i agree it is Doing Work There , But Pakistan is Your Life Line Instead of Making Enemy on Past Mistakes best Option is Instead of Blaming Working Together Pakistan , India , Afghanistan , China These countries share border with each other if they end all there Disputes how much progress Can be achieved but World is Not So black and White and there are too many complicated problems Which will remain For time Unless Some other Country invades all these Countries and from a single block

 

[somebozo]

Sorry to disappoint you but nobody has asked for your opinion



Fair point bolded part. As for Afghan if he has iota of of self respect then he should leave immediately or better deport has ***

Pakistan does not discriminate between local and foreign business and the tax law is equal for both. These Afghans could have legalized their status by registering their business and marriages, paying taxes and applying for POC card which issued to law full permanent residents of Pakistan...

But they choose to engage in criminal activity by becoming false citizens of Pakistan. Engaging in unregistered business and evading taxes by billions of ruppees in the process as well as damage to lawful tax paying local industry..therefore there is no one else responsible for their plight other than themselves. And their losses are compensation to state for the billions of tax losses they have created. Legally speaking state should reposes their business and properties..fine them by the millions..strip them of all valuables and deport them.

I did not even know Pakistan had carpet indstry, 8 years ago i went to Pakistan and thought i buy a hand knotted carpet, went to many stores in Sadar all i could find was Afghan and Iranian carpets, when inquired about Pakistani Carpets i was told they are very hard to find as no one is making it anymore.

Pakistani carpet is sold as Irani and Afghani maal..in Riyadh carpet market..all products and weavers are Pakistani but sold as Afghani and Irani mall! The dumbest part is that Irani, Tajik and Afghan traders sitting in Dubai import their carpets from Pakistan..rebrand them as Made in Iran / Tajikistan or Afghanistan and then re export to Saudi Arabia..

How would the Afghan army reach Peshawar -- are you out of your mind -- Do you think the Pakistani people would not resist -- The Pakistani Army could not reach and hold the extremities of Kabul today.

Read the Air Lift of Kundoz before American invasion...5000 Pakistani army personal and ISI officers were present in Afghanistan as talibans...

I dont know where you go that 90 percent figure, but you do know they are Afghan turkmens.

Not necessary..many from central asia especially Tajib, Uzbek work in FATA

 

[Asian.Century]

Pakistan has delayed at country's economic burden, these thankless Two and a half million Afghan refugees living in Pakistan, how could these lived in Pakistan for three decades without papers, what a cost, & suffering Pakistan had to bear, they should be deported like water opened up from a closed dam.


There must be a quick way to deport or kick these Afghans out of Pakistan and permanently block the border. Pakistan is not a cash cow for Afghanis, Pakistan is not a job grab economic loot for these Afghanis, Pakistan is not a haven for Afghan terrorists, Pakistan is not a place for drug smuggling and bach bazi. Pakistan has a level, we cannot be compared like if UK cannot be compared to Zimbabweans.

A tough decision but a decision has to be made, it has cost us enormous economically and financially, and what in return do Pakistanis get, what have these namak haram Afghanis good for. What resource they provide .

 

[Pandora]

Yeah pakistan will fall bcz it cant make carpets? Seriously the size of your ego hahaha. On a bite a reality most of carpet industry is now using machines for weaving carpet so handicrafters are already a dying breed