[ATTENTION!] Official article admits DF-21(X) has ability of attacking moving target

Discussion in 'Chinese Defence Forum' started by GUNDAM, May 19, 2010.

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  1. satishkumarcsc
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    satishkumarcsc SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes I perfectly understand what happened there....It states that the new government thinks that the missile is a failure as it has not hit the target and is considering the induction of the weapon system. But the SM-3 system even if it does not hit the target successfully veers it off its course thus saving the target. I like the SM-3 programme and hence hated what happened.
  2. GUNDAM
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    GUNDAM FULL MEMBER

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    That's why I said you know nothing about Chinese way of expression. This kind of article is not a technique paper with experiment data to prove weapon ability. And why should PLA prove something to end your doubt?
    I post the article just to tell the people here, China admits this weapon is completed.

    Doubt? Sorry, no person or unit on this planet can be more authoritative than CASIC in the field of Chinese missiles.
    I can't help you with Chinese language, so, doubt as you wish.

    Maybe you are a specialist in missile, but after all you admitted what you said is based on personal experience, NOT reality.
    As my personal experience, no missile denfence system can ensure a probability of sucess >80% (what a high evaluation~) when engaging with multi targets in real battle. 20%? That's enough, and that's why DF21 Anti-CV type exists and why ballistic missile still exists.

    I don't care whether your or sb's previous theory or reviews are reasonable or not. What you should learn is that there're many thing in this world you do not know even in the field you are familiar with so don't be so worried to teach others sth even before you know exactly what the article says.

    P.S.
    I don't want to tangle with you. But don't think Chinese people are fools without knowledge and only listen to the government.
    I looked through some threads and found you hates communist, saying they are liars. OK, this is your right, but I can also tell you, that is your, how to say, pride and prejudice.
    :smokin:
  3. ghazaliy2k
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    ghazaliy2k FULL MEMBER

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    here is the full translation and please correct me if i am wrong

    Review and Consideration of the Chinese ballistic missile

    China Aerospace Science and Engineering Group 4 deputy director Wang Genbin

    Throughout the United States and Russia of missiles, especially the history of strategic missiles, are the first liquid after the solid missile missiles. The United States from the early 60 century, Polaris missile equipment began to achieve rapid solidification of the missile. 20 years later, the Soviet Union has gradually completed the missile solidification. This is because the small size of solid missiles, launch preparation time is short, easy to maneuver and less vehicle launch position, and strong survival advantage, most suited to the laws of the missile weapon system decisions. China's missile development, but also through the first liquid after the solids in the process. However, the realization of this transformation, more tortuous and difficult.

    First, innovation is difficult, dual-use starting point for a bomb
    The development of our solid missile self-reliance and hard struggle "bombs and one satellite," a vivid manifestation of Spirit. First, late start:
    My copy the former Soviet Union in 1960, P-2 missile successfully test liquid, developed by 1964, Dongfeng II missile successfully test on the liquid, the same year, China's first atomic bomb test successful, all the time breakthrough. The National Defense Science and Technology Commission of solid missile in the original formation of solid propellant professional group (15 Professional Group) merged to Xi'an 3, to set up in 1964 in Luzhou, Institute of Solid engine, just the birth of our first solid rocket research.

    Second, starting from scratch:
    Does not introduce the technology and information, from raw materials to the propellant formulation of basic start, completely independent innovation by Chinese scientists, the great difficulty imagine.

    (A) forced into the sea, concentrating on the development potential of land missile
    August 1965, Premier Zhou Enlai in the 13th Central Committee put forward for early post-produce a solid missile. Ministry of the original four centers from seven aircraft formation of solid missile development team, demonstrated solid missile development program. At that time, although the solution of the propellant formulation and cast molding technology, combustion instability technical problems, but development of large solid rocket motor is still very difficult. After comparing several options, the Department decided to go ahead seven machines a single-stage solid short-range missiles (Dongfeng 60 on the 1st) in order to gain experience, training team for base construction, and then develop a multi-level, the long-range solid missile.

    January 24, 1967, Defense Science and Technology Commission review of this program, found that although the program can be quickly developed a solid missiles, but the components, raw materials, mechanical and electrical fittings to use liquid missile, projectile than the heavy, large equipment in missiles, accuracy, performance is not ideal. At that time, sent in 1958 by Chairman Mao, "to develop nuclear submarine" instruction, 1965, the central text of the IPCC 72 nuclear submarines in torpedo development, based on missile nuclear submarines has arranged a second step of the development. This urgent need to complete missiles, only the most suitable for solid missiles. Although the submarine-launched missiles more difficult, but the country needed a strong driving force, the sea of solid missile force, although the longer development cycle, but my level of solid missile will be greatly increased. In this review meeting, the Defence Science and Technology Commission with the General Staff Department, the Department of artillery and seven machine study, decided to stop at the Dongfeng 60 research and development focus on the dragon 70 on the 1st (later changed to waves on the 1st) submarine-launched intermediate-range missiles on the ground. And in December 1967 to Section (c) No. 216 issued by the waves on the 1st article of tactical and technical index. Accordingly, our starting point fully launched the first generation of the difficult course of solid missile development. This is my solid ground (potential) to medium-range missiles after the first short-and long-range, different from the foreign historical reasons.

    (B) ashore, to achieve a dual purpose ammunition, they played solid for battle

    Waves at after several years of development achieved initial results, the time of liquid missile by leaps and bounds the last century, mid 70s, Zhang Aiping comrades 75 years back to work, keen to see the advantages of solid missile, to the Department of arrested development of seven aircraft missile development planning, clear focus on second-generation strategic missile to solve the mobility problem, the most suitable solid missile motor. Court held in a special demonstration of solid models of development will, at Comrade Zhang Aiping Zhang Jian Zhi support comrades at the meeting issued a vision statement with the three shells that landed with the waves at a land-based mobile missiles, re-use it to improve high blocking anti-missile missile. Later, when he was Defense Science and Technology Commission of the State Planning Commission with Comrade Zhang Aiping, seven machine ministry leaders, experts analyzed the current situation of solid missile development is proposed "to play the solid of the battle," the strategic plan. National Defense Science and Technology Commission in May 1975 reported to the CMC a "strategic missile nuclear weapons on the work report", the report proposed a "waves on the 1st submarine to surface missile is a promising solid models for shaping post-equipped troops at the same time to carry out improvements to a range of XXXX km, and car models to-ground mobile launchers. "CMC Standing Committee 13th meeting to discuss this report, on 23 May 1975 instructions were Chairman Mao, Chairman Mao quickly Markup in the May 25th agreement. At this point, began to consider improving the landing problem.

    August 1, 1978, Deng Xiaoping, Deputy Defence Science and Technology Commission to listen to seven machines to report the Department of Leadership, said: "I am more interested in the land mobile, guerilla war with modern weapons. Then should be placed directly on the waves on the 1st ,
    Strength to solid. "February 1979 National Defense Science and Technology Commission held a" wind on the 21st overall program demonstrated ", set targets and develop skills and principles required in the waves on the 1st submarine to surface missile technology programs based on the same premise, together with the corresponding ground equipment, mobile-ground nuclear component system (ie to achieve a dual-purpose bombs), developed by the same team by a huge wave on the 1st, easterly on the 21st two models to carry out development work. August 14, 1982 the State Council, Central Military Commission approved the waves on the 1st, easterly on the 21st mission to develop a book. a big hit this solid strategic plan to carry out the battle.

    Second, development of a management system, streamline, speed up the waves, and wind on the 21st at the development

    CPC Central Committee and the battle to play the strategic decision to solid, solid missile development objectives and tasks clearly. Must have an excellent development team, reasonable layout and management development can be achieved. In the waves and wind on the 21st on the 1st development process, development layout has experienced three major adjustments.

    (A) adjustment of the development layout for the first time
    Ministry of seven aircraft in 1965, four homes set up solid missile development team, set up the design department - four, but the general lack of missiles, warheads, control systems, remote areas outside the measurement technology and production, testing methods, and models developed not meet the needs. With the development and production, this conflict has become increasingly prominent. How to solve this problem, by the leaders and institutions at all levels attach great importance. November 22, 1967, when he was seven machine Comrade Qian, Vice Minister presided over the meeting to determine, waves at the warhead development work by the four homes to a hospital.
    1968 National Defense Science and Technology Commission explicitly model homes by the Fourth Hospital Research Institute to solid rocket motor. In the turmoil of the Cultural Revolution is January 1, 1970, approved by Premier Zhou "seven aircraft by the Department of Inner Mongolia, four homes and moved to Beijing four, seven aircraft classified as a hospital department leadership." Began the development layout for the first time to adjust. 4 April 1970 moved to Beijing, in the final establishment of a hospital, take the overall structure and missile development work. Drawn from the fluid model of a hospital a large number of experts and technicians to enrich waves development team, and take decisions related to plant the waves of the corresponding production tasks. Formed a complete set complete development team, strength enhancement, the promotion of the development progress of the work, completed the preliminary design phase of the stand-alone and system testing of the model for the later research has laid a solid foundation.

    (B) development of a second to adjust the layout

    In the absence of solid missile assembly and testing plant to use full-size missile assembly 101 stops the engine cleaning liquid crude studio completed assembly does not meet the requirements of solid missile missile telemetry. Therefore, the assembly plant as a constraint to the development of the key. Department of multiple machines at seven selected points, indecisive when Zhang Aiping, 1975, Qian and other comrades in a hospital at the solid missile model in a clear demonstration that: commitment to the development of Jiangsu Province by the task of quickly building assembly plants in the 307 bases. After discussion by the Central Military Commission, agreed that reporting of Chairman Mao's approval to the National Development (1975) No. 149 issued paper. Strong support in Jiangsu Province, will soon be completed in 307 plants missile assembly and testing plant, airframe structure, servo production lines and related facilities, apparatus and other units in the South no fixed production telemetry systems and other products, this results in use ever since.

    (C) development of the third adjustment of the layout
    1976 smashing of the "Gang of Four", the national economy has been in undone, can not guarantee that the demand for more models of development must be focused. Central was the "three arrested" (ICBM, communications satellites, waves on the 1st), mobilization of the forces across the country, giving priority to ensuring the development of these three models, experimental work. This is the CPC Central Committee, Zhang Aiping and the Department of the older generation, led seven machines important strategic decision to promote the development of China's aerospace industry has played a significant role. Waves included in the "three-grasp" task, a great encouragement to the morale of the vast number of research staff, 2 engine test successful, long-term capture of an unsuccessful full swing nozzle test also successfully promoted the development work carried out smoothly.
    But the "three grasping" tasks are borne by a hospital, the task too. At this point, the second hospital in view of the level of our technology base was put forward the views of anti-missile type dismount, get the approval of Comrade Zhang Aiping, a lot of experience in organizational management and technical team are looking useless. Zhang Aiping, 1979 leading comrades of the National Defense Science and Technology Commission Song Renqiong the seven machines with the leadership of the Department of Decision: The four, 17 plan to the two homes, the total grasp waves from hospital model, overall the original ABM (2 School 26 ) merged into four. Second Home from the hospital-wide deployment of technology to enrich the development team to adjust the hospital authority, hospital leaders have personally served as commander, 699 factory factory production tasks undertaken, and even from the office, living rooms also provide full protection to the adjustments very smoothly. Model development work to speed up the progress of a large amount of ground quickly integrated matching system-wide testing, and in 1981 achieved the first flight, wind and waves on the 1st one after another on the 21st in 1988 and 1989 setting. "Bombs and one satellite" Meritorious Medal
    The total sum for the division winner Huang Weilu: their successful development of our missile and space to fill a gap in technology, so China has become the world's fifth strategic missiles fired from submarines in the country.

    Third, the past and develop a wind on the 21st

    80s of last century, the settlement of the availability of the first generation of solid missile waves and wind on the 21st at setting the peak of the flight test batch, the next step how the development of solid missile naturally become pressing issues. At that time the State needs a medium-range missiles, the development department within the internal and the Second Artillery has had is with the east on the 3rd of liquid missile or east on the 21st to improve extended-range missile controversy. Obviously wind on the 3rd maturity, high reliability, very popular with troops welcome, east on the 21st not been established, but the solid is the direction of the missile, both views are valid. Second Artillery Corps in 1985 when he was vice president of technology teacher Zhang Jian Zhi loaded with four comrades to discuss the issue and reach a consensus. 4 then sent to a "climb on the use of DF-21 proposal," Zhang Jian Zhi comrades reported among the Second Artillery Directorate. July 16 Li Xu House deputy commander of the proposal on the instructions: "Please install the Ministry of Technology, to give an opinion." July 22 Zheng Ti deputy commander instructed: "If the target can be achieved, can replace the DF-3, please Technology
    Out the views of the Department installed. "According to these instructions, August 12 ~ 13, the Department convened the Second Artillery Technical installed unified views, decided to use the east on the 21st extended range, developing better wind performance on the 21st A.

    Technology installed in 1988 by the Second Artillery and the Second Department of east on the 21st hospital signed a development contract, which is the funding of military research and system reform (directly allocated by the research departments of national defense science and technology commission to set aside some branches, then branches contract with the research department), the army developed the first contract.

    Development of wind on the 21st was not a success. Although inherited the wind technology program based on the 21st, but to achieve the objective of 60% growth range, change is still large. For example, two engines charging system to power by the small carboxy HTPB better system, two engines from the steel shell to lighter fiberglass shell, thrust vector control by secondary injection of liquid into four single-nozzle full swing and so on nozzle axis. As the "utmost urgency" of the model, time constraints, funding and equipment from the Second Artillery Corps, come out of fees, can not meet the needs of development team awareness of the importance of design quality and lack of quality control measures ineffective, inadequate ground testing and other reasons, a 1991 remote, remote two consecutive flight test failure, the development was interrupted, the contract can not continue to perform, the dissolution of the situation facing the development team. In this extremely difficult situation, the National Defense Science and Technology Commission, Aerospace Corporation, Second Artillery Corps leadership and solid play the organ did not shake the determination of the war, many in-depth development of first-line, visit at
    Development of pain among the general staff, lack of accountability, to encourage everyone to seriously learn, analyze and find the weak links, and that state firmly that model. Led warm everyone's heart care, quality review immediately put hard work, and soon identified the cause of the weapon system program was to modify the design, validation of the 48 changes the content and 67 additional tests. In order to continue the development, financing of national defense science and technology commission, and the Second Artillery, and Second Artillery School in 1993, signed a contract to continue development of its contract amount is 2.3 times the early and timely start of the 02 approved the development. In the superior care and encouragement to take specific measures, the Second Hospital of total system, adjust the two conducted a series of ground tests, and finally achieved with four consecutive successful flight test, completed the setting, equipment, troops, east to become the 21st A The main equipment of our strategic missiles.

    East on the 21st A successful development of major military significance, in addition to its missile development in our history of solid play a role in carrying it is in China developed the first generation of solid missile waves on the 1st, east on the 21st to solve the availability problem, the performance has improved greatly in the second generation of solid missile. Solid missile this step, also established a foothold. After the model development, the development level of China's solid missiles, auxiliary equipment and production capacity is rapidly improving, as our country's missile solid foundation of a solid. After the development of the wind on the 21st series (A, B, C, D), east on the 31st and the 31st A-level wind, formed a solid short-range to intercontinental missiles from, from nuclear to nuclear regular and solid, conventional missiles, multiple warhead attack different targets in the full pattern, to achieve a missile solidification.

    Fourth, thinking

    (A) central decision-making, size up the situation
    Recalling the development path of China's missile during several key steps, regardless of the high starting point (after the first medium-short-and long-range, a dual-purpose bomb), the east wind on the 21st a link between the past research, and development of layout and development of system three adjustments. Fully reflects the CPC Central Committee and Central Military Commission and the older generation of revolutionaries, vision, size up the situation, correct decisions, firm, solid big fight a war to achieve rapid success of China's missile solidification. All times in each of the key directions of their important and strategic, strong measures. Special
    Especially when difficulties and setbacks, not to blame but to encourage and mobilize resources from the country, in human, financial, and material support for various aspects and practical, this is an important guarantee for career development.

    (B) innovation and the strong synergy
    Solid missiles started late in China, without imitation stage, very weak in the basic conditions of a state, completely rely on independent innovation, step by step, out of a path of development suited to China's national conditions. As well as developing countries and support the various ministries, the development team is a cross-sectoral, inter-regional collaboration network, that is, the total units of two grasping in the hand (the overall control of the Ministry and the overall, final assembly factory) Intermediate external (auxiliary equipment in missiles and ground ) meet the modern enterprise management mode, which is a major feature. Participating research units to coordinate overall division in Huang Weilu advocated "a problem common to discuss common difficulties to overcome, together with margin control, shared risk" culture under the guidance of strong collaboration, hard work to overcome the road ahead the difficulties one by one, creating a situation today. Innovation, strong collaboration is the "bombs and one satellite" spirit in the solid missile development to the concrete embodiment.

    (C) created a research team
    China's solid missile from scratch, from small to large development team is also, by the team, "bombs and one satellite" spirit of the traditional spirit of space, developed missiles of China's first generation of solid, then 20 years from 1988 to the present time, the state invested only 3.0 billion development costs, has developed east on the 21st A, B, C, D four models, complete from the nuclear to both nuclear and conventional attack fixed targets to attack slow moving target changes, the precision CEP realized tens of meters from a few hundred meters and then to progress to truly create a model series, to meet the Second Artillery Corps in the new era, "responsible for deterrence against China's use of nuclear weapons, conducting nuclear counterattacks and precision strikes with conventional missiles." made important contributions to the country. The team win without pride, by defeat, hard work, walking is a better and more economical for development.
  4. graphican
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    graphican SENIOR MEMBER

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    Relations between Pakistan-USA is not even fraction of bond that Pakistan has with China. And a correction, America is not Pakistan's friend. Period. For us, "friendship" is a sacred word and we don't use it for America.

    I am noticing some Americans are actively participating here and are equally desperate to prove DF-21 would do no harm to them. Americans don't play game of probability, they always act when they see 100% result going in their favor. As they are saying DF-21 would do no harm, they are definitely certain it won't. Having said that, I request every body not to mention Vietnam and Afghanistan about which Americans were again 100% sure. Not all Americans in this forum are young enough to bare such humiliation so we must be thoughtful while treating them. After all we need to be nice to them, probably a little more than they are to us. Thank you.
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  5. ptldM3
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    ptldM3 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Only in my free time :tup:
  6. ao333
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    ao333 FULL MEMBER

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    Please, Gambit, what can a Vietnamese flight maintenance crew know about real technology? The SM-3 or even the V-2 rocket designs are classified. So a good-for-nothing naturalized gook can suddenly assess a weapon Chinese scientists have been working 20 years on, without the specs at that? A slap in the face question would be "How can the United States be certain it can defend from such a threat?" DoD's response to such a conventional Chinese ballistic launch against any of their carriers was nuclear retaliation, which goes to show that the United States does not have a credible defense against the missile. (though, not a pleasant thought...)

    It irritates me how you inherited the arrgonace of the Yankees, but not their skills. Come and talk again when you conduct a full body transplant and strip yourself of the Vietnamese skins and truely embrace the USA. Otherwise, you'd always be a Vietnamese-American, who true westerners giggle at.

    Guess what: Here's how I feel about you and Gordon Chan:

    Woah, look at those Chinese and Vietnamese-"Americans" go! They hate their dirty Asian dump hole more than we do. What a great laugh.
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  7. gambit
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    gambit PROFESSIONAL

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    The word 'gook' is generally used as a derogative against all Asians, not just Viets. So thank YOU, Oh Canadian, for revealing your racism, not just to me but to all Asians here. Just cannot keep your anti-Americanism to yourself, eh?
  8. new wave
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    new wave BANNED

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    Hey old man, I am with you on this issue, no need to bring racism into our "constructive discussions", oh wait whats wrong with me ? supporting our common "enemy" Mr old man ? HaHaHa:cheers:
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  9. Speeder 2
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    ^^ no worries, new wave. Having rambbled for 2440 times, the "old" chap thanked no one. The degree of delusion, arrogance and mental toughness(or illness) exibited here are sufficient enough for him to survive the forum IMO, in spite of having sleepless nights these days. :lol:

    As for the similarity to Gordon Chang, ao333 is spot on. Chang must be gambit's favorate pornstar on Fox. :agree:

    btw, hey gambit, are those penis enlargement pumps the purple ones you bought at Target last year? :azn:
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  10. TheMiddleMan
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    Please, no personal attacks, it just shows how low you are, that goes for everybody, lets have a constructive thread...... thx
  11. TheMiddleMan
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    Edit...........
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  12. ptldM3
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    ptldM3 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Thank goodness for the self checkout isles :whistle:.....:devil: but one question, how do you know they're purple? :toast_sign:
  13. Guest
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    forget it guys, you will never win a retired(80%), low ranking(60%) US mechanican or support unit(40%).

    judging by his comment, his 21st century knowledge goes only as far as wiki tells. if you tell him only 1-2 DF is enough to shower the carriers, he will tell you that it is 1000-2000 that needed bacause you can only locate the carrier 30-60 minutes before you launch the missile. does he know what intelligent informations grid is? probably not!

    and for those he knows, he only konws the facts but not why. he will keep telling you that FBW systen can not be turned off only because there is no "off" on those USAF ACs. why is that? sorry, i was told that way and i don't ask why. but when you tell him that Russian and Chinese ACs used the mechanic system to backup their quad-reduntent FBW system, he just tell you that "that is not a true FBW system".

    besides that, he posted many aged info on stealthy design showing how important the appearance is. but did he mentioned why F-22 is much larger than F-35 yet much more stealther.

    and when being asked can an AWACS guide the Fighters (radar off) to launch their missiles. he posted something about how missiles were guided to their targets. just like this could be done as picking up a phone to tell the missile where your targets are. but he never mentioned how many preparation works needed to be done and how important the the prerequisition is.
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
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  14. scuthan
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    scuthan FULL MEMBER

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    I am not sure it is true or not.

    [​IMG]
  15. satishkumarcsc
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    satishkumarcsc SENIOR MEMBER

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    That is the STOBAR test facility. But why is it built in the middle of nowhere? It is usually built near the shore.