Tarique against religion-based politics

[Mattrixx]

Matrixx you are worse than a White supremacist, don't comment or start these topics.

Or what Non tolerant mind? Kiddo trying to control someone

If BD will have Jihad some days, Im sure its you foreigners will instigate upon us

 

[Saiful Islam]

Or what Non tolerant mind? Kiddo trying to control someone

If BD will have Jihad some days, Im sure its you foreigners will instigate upon us

Why did you bring Jihad?

 

[kalu_miah]

What's the big fuss abt it? BNP is a pluralistic party. Pres. Zia believed in giving political space to all parties including islamic ones and also vermin such as bakshali AL. He realized islam is the prominent part of BD's society and respected that. As long as tariq zia politically have the same opinion as his father's i see no problem with that. BNP is a big tent party and unlike AL doesn't revolve around personality cult.

Big tent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



With due respect u have ill-informed views on islam and politics. I saw that thread and u bad mouthed salafist as well. Salafist movements itself have different sub-sects some of which protruded to extremism. DO MB/JI or similar like minded parties support extremism? Did any of them took arms under heinous persecution they were/are going through? Extremist rather have a hatred for both saudi salafis (pro-monarch) as well as MB/JI type political parties as they take part in democratic elections.

I hope this article will help u have a broaden perception on such things:
On Salafi Islam | Dr. Yasir Qadhi - MuslimMatters.org

And u r bringing Ibn Taymiyyah in? DO u know the kind of scholar he was? Muslims of all school of thought have very high regard for him. He is regarded as one of the greatest islamic scholar of all time, who fought against the social ills of his time.

BNP-JI is electoral allaince. BKZ made it clear plenty of times. If u don't know abt BD's electoral landscape u would make such naive statements. If fair inclusive elections r held BNP-JI guarantees victory and as such AL was and still is hell bent of breaking the allaince. BD has a first-pass poll system where winner of a constituency takes all. Apart from their strong holds JI commands some 10000 votes in all constituencies and in an electoral alliance , all those votes fall on BNP's camp which become more important given the in fighting within both BNP & AL during elections with rival independent candidates from both parties eating up certain portions of each parties votes. Those votes do make a difference between winning & loosing. JI contested in all seats in 96 and u know the result while in 2001 they the allaince got 200 + seats. In 91 JI backed BNP to form the gov to make up numbers. Their biggest mistake was IMO backing AL's care taker "movement" in 96. They r paying for it now though.

Salafi movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Salafi movement, also known as the Salafi methodology and the Salafist movement, is a movement or sect[1] withinIslam that takes its name from the term salaf ("predecessors", "ancestors") used to identify the earliest Muslims, who, its adherents believe, provide the epitome of Islamic practice.[2][3] The popular hadith that quotes Muhammad as saying 'The people of my own generation are the best, then those who come after them, and then those of the next generation,' is seen as a call to Muslims to follow the example of those first three generations, the salaf.[4]

The majority of the world's Salafis are from Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia.[5] 46.87% of Qataris[5] and 44.8% of Emiratis are Salafis.[5] 5.7% of Bahrainis are Salafis and 2.17% of Kuwaitis are Salafis.[5]

Salafis are the "dominant minority" in Saudi Arabia.[6] There are 4 million Saudi Salafis since 22.9% of Saudis are Salafis (concentrated in Najd).[5] The Salafi movement is often described as synonymous with Wahhabism, but Salafists consider the term "Wahhabi" derogatory.[7] At other times, Salafism has been deemed a hybrid of Wahhabism and other post-1960s movements.[8] Salafism has become associated with literalist, strict and puritanical approaches to Islam – and, particularly in the West, with the Salafi Jihadis who espouse violent jihad against those they deem to be enemies of Islam as a legitimate expression of Islam.[9]

Academics and historians have used the term "Salafism" to denote "a school of thought which surfaced in the second half of the 19th century as a reaction to the spread of European ideas" and "sought to expose the roots of modernity within Muslim civilization."[10][11] However contemporary Salafis follow "literal, traditional ... injunctions of the sacred texts", looking to Ibn Taymiyyah rather than the "somewhat freewheeling interpretation" of 19th century figures Muhammad Abduh, Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, and Rashid Rida.[12][13]

Observers differ over whether Salafi are Sunni Muslims and whether they are Wahhabis. Self-described Salafis believe they are Sunni Muslims, while traditionalist Sunni critics claim that Salafis are the same as Wahhabis,[14][15] a sect unto their own and different from orthodox (i.e. traditional) Sunni Muslims.[14][16][17] The basis of this claim is that Salafis do not acknowledge or follow any of the four schools of thought (Madhhab) to which other Sunni Muslims adhere. They have their own beliefs and laws, their own leaders and systems, a religion with strict and so-called extremist ways.[14][15][16]

In the Arab world – and possibly even more so now by Muslims in the West – the term Ahl-as-Sunnah ("People of theSunnah") is frequently used instead, while the term Ahl al-Hadith ("People of the Tradition") is often used on the Indian subcontinent to identify adherents of Salafi ideology, though this term is used more often in the Middle-East to indicate scholars and students of Hadith). The Muslim Brotherhood is differentiated from Salafi, allegedly because of its religious innovations,[18] but the group did include the term in the "About Us" section of its website.[19]

It is often reported from various sources, including the German domestic intelligence service, that Salafism is the fastest-growing Islamic movement in the world.[20][21][22][23][24]"

Salafi's want to go back to 7th century and discard the 14 century of religious and jurisprudence scholarship that accompanied social evolution in Muslim societies in the last 14 centuries.

MB/JI follow Qutbism and Moududism, both of which are variations of this Salafism. Yes they may not support violence or terrorism, but there is no telling what they might do if they grab power in an opportunity created by Indian terrorism in Bangladesh, like the Mullah's did in Iran. Egyptian MB started acting very authoritarian after they were elected, although I disagree with Sisi's removing them in a coup, that should have been done in an election.

The only Islam leaning party that I support is AKP of Turkey.

My stand is that it is up to the people to choose. People should be free to choose what kind of parties they support and become member of. I would not support restricting religion based parties just because Indians think it is dangerous for their puppet Awami League. But I will advise against people becoming member of and voting for such religion based parties, because I believe this is not good for the future of the Muslim world.

I would like to see people ship all forms of Salafism nonsense back to Arabia, where they originated and eventually let the whole world deal with this source of terrorism and retrograde ideas.

We need to follow the social development of Turkey and how it has built a vibrant, well developed and tolerant society and let this country lead the Muslim world towards unity and development. Petrodollar influence of both Shia and Sunni kind and their fitna among Muslim world should be a warning to the whole Muslim world and should show us what path we should not follow and what path we should follow.

 

[Mattrixx]

Why did you bring Jihad?

Because the way you ordered me its confirmed that you are a jihadi non tolerant mind.

And everybody knows about these Britany boys.

And I saw you are a jihadi supporter, who were supporting jihad on Myanmar.

 

[Mattrixx]

Salafi movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Salafi movement, also known as the Salafi methodology and the Salafist movement, is a movement or sect[1] withinIslam that takes its name from the term salaf ("predecessors", "ancestors") used to identify the earliest Muslims, who, its adherents believe, provide the epitome of Islamic practice.[2][3] The popular hadith that quotes Muhammad as saying 'The people of my own generation are the best, then those who come after them, and then those of the next generation,' is seen as a call to Muslims to follow the example of those first three generations, the salaf.[4]

The majority of the world's Salafis are from Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia.[5] 46.87% of Qataris[5] and 44.8% of Emiratis are Salafis.[5] 5.7% of Bahrainis are Salafis and 2.17% of Kuwaitis are Salafis.[5]

Salafis are the "dominant minority" in Saudi Arabia.[6] There are 4 million Saudi Salafis since 22.9% of Saudis are Salafis (concentrated in Najd).[5] The Salafi movement is often described as synonymous with Wahhabism, but Salafists consider the term "Wahhabi" derogatory.[7] At other times, Salafism has been deemed a hybrid of Wahhabism and other post-1960s movements.[8] Salafism has become associated with literalist, strict and puritanical approaches to Islam – and, particularly in the West, with the Salafi Jihadis who espouse violent jihad against those they deem to be enemies of Islam as a legitimate expression of Islam.[9]

Academics and historians have used the term "Salafism" to denote "a school of thought which surfaced in the second half of the 19th century as a reaction to the spread of European ideas" and "sought to expose the roots of modernity within Muslim civilization."[10][11] However contemporary Salafis follow "literal, traditional ... injunctions of the sacred texts", looking to Ibn Taymiyyah rather than the "somewhat freewheeling interpretation" of 19th century figures Muhammad Abduh, Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, and Rashid Rida.[12][13]

Observers differ over whether Salafi are Sunni Muslims and whether they are Wahhabis. Self-described Salafis believe they are Sunni Muslims, while traditionalist Sunni critics claim that Salafis are the same as Wahhabis,[14][15] a sect unto their own and different from orthodox (i.e. traditional) Sunni Muslims.[14][16][17] The basis of this claim is that Salafis do not acknowledge or follow any of the four schools of thought (Madhhab) to which other Sunni Muslims adhere. They have their own beliefs and laws, their own leaders and systems, a religion with strict and so-called extremist ways.[14][15][16]

In the Arab world – and possibly even more so now by Muslims in the West – the term Ahl-as-Sunnah ("People of theSunnah") is frequently used instead, while the term Ahl al-Hadith ("People of the Tradition") is often used on the Indian subcontinent to identify adherents of Salafi ideology, though this term is used more often in the Middle-East to indicate scholars and students of Hadith). The Muslim Brotherhood is differentiated from Salafi, allegedly because of its religious innovations,[18] but the group did include the term in the "About Us" section of its website.[19]

It is often reported from various sources, including the German domestic intelligence service, that Salafism is the fastest-growing Islamic movement in the world.[20][21][22][23][24]"

Salafi's want to go back to 7th century and discard the 14 century of religious and jurisprudence scholarship that accompanied social evolution in Muslim societies in the last 14 centuries.

MB/JI follow Qutbism and Moududism, both of which are variations of this Salafism. Yes they may not support violence or terrorism, but there is no telling what they might do if they grab power in an opportunity created by Indian terrorism in Bangladesh, like the Mullah's did in Iran. Egyptian MB started acting very authoritarian after they were elected, although I disagree with Sisi's removing them in a coup, that should have been done in an election.

The only Islam leaning party that I support is AKP of Turkey.

My stand is that it is up to the people to choose. People should be free to choose what kind of parties they support and become member of. I would not support restricting religion based parties just because Indians think it is dangerous for their puppet Awami League. But I will advise against people becoming member of and voting for such religion based parties, because I believe this is not good for the future of the Muslim world.

I would like to see people ship all forms of Salafism nonsense back to Arabia, where they originated and eventually let the whole world deal with this source of terrorism and retrograde ideas.

We need to follow the social development of Turkey and how it has built a vibrant, well developed and tolerant society and let this country lead the Muslim world towards unity and development. Petrodollar influence of both Shia and Sunni kind and their fitna among Muslim world should be a warning to the whole Muslim world and should show us what path we should not follow and what path we should follow.

I respect some of your views.
But secularism is the best option where no one has restrictions for their own religions.
If BD becomes a Islamic state, this country will break apart into pieces.
First there will be a conflict between shia and sunni. As there are little Shia population they will be discriminated.
Then there is a matter of Ahmadiyya.
Then there will be collision between different format of Sunnis.
And hindu, Buddhists, Christians and other indigenous people will be butchered.

So the system we have now, is the best option. Because everyone can express their views now.
And Tarique zia is on a right path. I hope he can come back refining his old faults.

 

[kalu_miah]

I respect some of your views.
But secularism is the best option where no one has restrictions for their own religions.
If BD becomes a Islamic state, this country will break apart into pieces.
First there will be a conflict between shia and sunni. As there are little Shia population they will be discriminated.
Then there is a matter of Ahmadiyya.
Then there will be collision between different format of Sunnis.
And hindu, Buddhists, Christians and other indigenous people will be butchered.

So the system we have now, is the best option. Because everyone can express their views now.
And Tarique zia is on a right path. I hope he can come back refining his old faults.

Sorry but I could not say the same about your views. "Secularism" that we have now means hatred towards Islam, just like it is in Indian version of secularism.

Awami League is an amazing party, because in the name of securing the minorities, with help and backing from Hindutva Islamophobic India, AL is persecuting majority Muslims, accusing all of them of being extremist, regardless of the many variation of views among them.

And how can I respect the Jan. 05, 2014 non-election?

Bangladeshi Muslims have always been tolerant and we would like to follow Turkey's example of becoming even more tolerant for all minorities. And that will come with economic development, which is not possible if we remain a sh!thole colony of India, under an Indian installed puppet dictator.

If you want a more tolerant and developed Bangladesh, can you still support this illegal Awami League rule since Jan. 05, 2014?

 

[Saiful Islam]

Because the way you ordered me its confirmed that you are a jihadi non tolerant mind.

And everybody knows about these Britany boys.

And I saw you are a jihadi supporter, who were supporting jihad on Myanmar.

I support the struggle of the Rohingya people who bear no arms who have nothing to defend themselves with, it is called humanity. I am a jihadi supporter, whether that be the jihad for the soul,fight personal desires, yes you are 100% correct. I posted threads of Bangladeshi boys going to Syria which seems to be a huge issue and needs to be tackled by local imams and the community because most of Brit Asians going to Syria have mainly been Bangladeshis (whether it be fighters, aid convoys etc).

 

[Mattrixx]

Sorry but I could not say the same about your views. "Secularism" that we have now means hatred towards Islam, just like it is in Indian version of secularism.

Awami League is an amazing party, because in the name of securing the minorities, with help and backing from Hindutva Islamophobic India, AL is persecuting majority Muslims, accusing all of them of being extremist, regardless of the many variation of views among them.

And how can I respect the Jan. 05, 2014 non-election?

Bangladeshi Muslims have always been tolerant and we would like to follow Turkey's example of becoming even more tolerant for all minorities. And that will come with economic development, which is not possible if we remain a sh!thole colony of India, under an Indian installed puppet dictator.

If you want a more tolerant and developed Bangladesh, can you still support this illegal Awami League rule (since Jan. 05, 2014)?

Bangladeshis are not not tolerate. They act like tolerate but in reality they cant stand with the opposition.

They can be more tolerate with economic growth, maybe by 2050.
As long as no fundamentalist party is on power I will support it, and yes dictatorship or AL.
If you hear me I will produce one party again with a combo of AL, BNP and JAPA or with a new force.
Now no one will hear me so my voice doesnt count.

And I have seen Turkeys are very secular like Europeans, many of the Turks are pi$$ed with present govt.

 

[extra terrestrial]

Bangladeshis are not not tolerate. They act like tolerate but in reality they cant stand with the opposition.

They can be more tolerate with economic growth, maybe by 2050.
As long as no fundamentalist party is on power I will support it, and yes dictatorship or AL.
If you hear me I will produce one party again with a combo of AL, BNP and JAPA or with a new force.
Now no one will hear me so my voice doesnt count.

And I have seen Turkeys are very secular like Europeans, many of the Turks are pi$$ed with present govt.

Dictatorship is fine, but do you really think the current leadership is capable enough for such a position? Give an honest answer!

 

[Mattrixx]

Dictatorship is fine, but do you really think the current leadership is capable enough for such a position? Give an honest answer!

Current leadership isnt dictatorship, but trying hold their position by any means.
They are in deals with BNP, Jamaat, India. Lack of capable people in ministry.
Degradation in law enforcement, business sector.
But Im not much optimistic that someone will change this condition overnight.
Rather want to believe that this gov will do something to deal with this.

 

[extra terrestrial]

Current leadership isnt dictatorship, but trying hold their position by any means.
They are in deals with BNP, Jamaat, India. Lack of capable people in ministry.
Degradation in law enforcement, business sector.
But Im not much optimistic that someone will change this condition overnight.
Rather want to believe that this gov will do something to deal with this.

I never said current government is a dictatorship but it's definitely adopting an authoritarian form. Anyway, you said that you would even support a dictatorship as long as a fundamentalist party don't assume power, fine, I actually liked that statement, but my question was do you consider the current leadership to deserve such a position?

And what exactly are you expecting from the government to deal with the situation? I hope you are aware of the HRW, TIB and AI reports on extra judicial killings and media censorship of the current government.

 

[Mattrixx]

my question was do you consider the current leadership to deserve such a position?

I said it, I ill support it as long as Im not directly affected by this gov

It has got much faith from the secular society that I don’t see its alternative.

And what exactly are you expecting from the government to deal with the situation? I hope you are aware of the HRW, TIB and AI reports on extra judicial killings and media censorship of the current government.

Extra judicial killings are reducing day by day. Its less than before. And media censorship isn’t a serious issue. Do you need another hefajot with an uncontrollable media or propaganda against state.

And what more can you expect from non tolerable, Bengali traits.

And what exactly are you expecting from the government to deal with the situation?

Im not sure about this but concerned people should take strong measures on this.

 

[extra terrestrial]

I said it, I ill support it as long as Im not directly affected by this gov

It has got much faith from the secular society that I don’t see its alternative.

Don't think so. I consider the majority as secular minded and the present government clearly don't have the support from the majority!

Extra judicial killings are reducing day by day. Its less than before. And media censorship isn’t a serious issue. Do you need another hefajot with an uncontrollable media or propaganda against state.
And what more can you expect from non tolerable, Bengali traits.

Well, the reports say otherwise. The numbers are simple unprecedented.

The media censorship is definitely a major issue. The 5 May event was obviously uncalled for but the actions by law enforcement agencies were serious violations of human rights. The two channels were telecasting the event live which actually prevents spreading a propaganda.

Also did you read the editorials of major dailies on the issue of National Broadcast Policy? Everyone seems to oppose it irrespective of their political orientation.

 

[kalu_miah]

Bangladeshis are not not tolerate. They act like tolerate but in reality they cant stand with the opposition.

They can be more tolerate with economic growth, maybe by 2050.
As long as no fundamentalist party is on power I will support it, and yes dictatorship or AL.
If you hear me I will produce one party again with a combo of AL, BNP and JAPA or with a new force.
Now no one will hear me so my voice doesnt count.

And I have seen Turkeys are very secular like Europeans, many of the Turks are pi$$ed with present govt.

As one of our old posters like to say "Chapati Leaguers" killing people cannot be called tolerant. Turkey's govt. do not kill opposition and Turkey's secular opposition practice democracy, unlike the so called "secular", in reality fascists, in our country.

If Zia was not tolerant, he would not allow Hasina back into the country. Both KZ and Zia has a record of being more tolerant and democratic than Hasina led Awami League backed by India, the latest proof of which is Jan 05 farce of non-election.

And what did the Hefajoti's did to deserve to be killed by RAB-BGB and RAW operators? They were mostly peaceful protesters, may be at times a bit unruly, but did not bring guns and bullets. The way the Awami League is operating, we will be lucky if Taleban and Al Qaeda extremists do not get a foothold in Bangladesh and India backed Awami League would be to blame for that if that happens, because of their extreme intolerance.

 

[khair_ctg]

Matrixx you are worse than a White supremacist, don't comment or start these topics.

this Mattrixx claims to be a Bangladeshi, but hates every bit of the history of the subcontinental Muslim community. he wishes Muslims did not come to South Asia and civilizations did not spring up. considering that he is a Muslim as he claims, what kind of low life actually hates their own history that much, whether they are Muslim or Jew or Buddhist or whether they are English or Brazilian or Qatari.

this member kept the avatar of Nawab Siraj ud Daula for a long time. owing to his deeply held belief that who is a Mughal and who is a Bengali Muslim could be completely separated, he believed the Nawab to be a Bengali instead of Mughal. upon discovering that the Nawab couldn't fall into his concept of a utopian pure 'Bengali' ethnicity untouched by admixture from settling non-Bengali Muslims, he had a fall out with the Nawab that resulted in his current avatar.

Yes this islamophobic 'bengali' nationalism can be that irrational

Or what Non tolerant mind? Kiddo trying to control someone

If BD will have Jihad some days, Im sure its you foreigners will instigate upon us