Arguments of choosing JF-17 Thunder over JAS-39 Gripen

[hunter_hunted]

Man are u serious??

Its called "Roza-lagna"

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I have to agree with Windjammer. Indeed already tested and it is openly said that we copied their pilot interface. Besides that you do not want to have it. It is not that cheap (South Africa has parked it) and others have lease construction. Do you really want US engine and lots of UK parts? I think it is a bigger risk then buying something French, Chinese. Russian, US so what makes you trust Saab? Even then we have to look how onesided their policy is. They offered NG to India but do not want to sell us "offensive" weapons. Hypocrisy... Don't buy it. Copy it.

And indeed our block3 is probably Gripen NG level. So why throwing away cash? I do not think we would get all the weapons to put on Gripen....

Yes, I very much doubt that SAAB would get permission to sell to Pakistan.
Just too much chaos and internal fights, so since 2007, only follow-on orders
to existing orders are allowed.

 

[Manticore]

 

[fatman17]

there is no argument really....the JAS-Gripen is not available to PK.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't know why PAF is not opting for JAS Griphen or dassault Rafales, but PAF had tested Rafales, I don't know why they left it out.

Did they really "test it" or where some senior PAF brass given a superficial tour of a FrAF Rafale?

 

[SQ8]

Did they really "test it" or where some senior PAF brass given a superficial tour of a FrAF Rafale?

Had a couple of sorties in it. This was back in the late 90's/Early 2000s. Remember, back then the aircraft was the pre-production versions which were then being showed off to various Aviation journals with Rafale B1 version

Yes, I very much doubt that SAAB would get permission to sell to Pakistan.
Just too much chaos and internal fights, so since 2007, only follow-on orders
to existing orders are allowed.

This whole tale of JAS-39 vs the JF-17 is superfluous. There was NEVER any competition between the two since the JF-17 was going to be there come hell or high water. The Gripen was considered by the PAF back in 2003 when the economy was booming the the first "elections" had taken place, the Swedish government had agreed on the Erieye in Principal and the PAF was now looking for its next important need which was the new strike fighter. The Gripen was considered but as such the version available then(C/D) was essentially still an air-defence fighter which the PAF already had enough of. The Mirage-2000 was the wish to have since the PAF was wary of the F-16 due to the sanctions bit, however as things turned out the F-16 was ordered anyway.

If anything , it should be "arguments of choosing the F-16-block-52 over Gripen"

 

[Abingdonboy]

Had a couple of sorties in it. This was back in the late 90's/Early 2000s. Remember, back then the aircraft was the pre-production versions which were then being showed off to various Aviation journals with Rafale B1 version

As I thought. Doesn't amount to a through evaluation of the planes strengths and weaknesses especially not the post-production versions.

I simply was addressing @tarrar 's statement that the PAF "tested" the Rafale when in reality the PAF did nothing of the sort. But to answer his question the reason the PAF didn't pursue this plane any further was almost certainly down to budgetary considerations.

 

[SQ8]

As I thought. Doesn't amount to a through evaluation of the planes strengths and weaknesses especially not the post-production versions.

I simply was addressing @tarrar 's statement that the PAF "tested" the Rafale when in reality the PAF did nothing of the sort. But to answer his question the reason the PAF didn't pursue this plane any further was almost certainly down to budgetary considerations.

When I mention a couple of sorties, I mention a through briefing on the type.. in both technical terms and future developments. Again, the PAF was much more interested in the Rafale than the IAF back then. The earlier M2K saga had left a bad taste for both parties and were keen to progress on earlier defence deals. But yes, in plain terms.. the French had much more leverage to try and fleece Pakistan on the system than they had with the MMRCA.

 

[Abingdonboy]

When I mention a couple of sorties, I mention a through briefing on the type.. in both technical terms and future developments. Again, the PAF was much more interested in the Rafale than the IAF back then. The earlier M2K saga had left a bad taste for both parties and were keen to progress on earlier defence deals. But yes, in plain terms.. the French had much more leverage to try and fleece Pakistan on the system than they had with the MMRCA.

Back in the late 90s/ early 00s the PAF was in a far better position than the IAF in terms of capital acquisition funds so you are no doubt correct the PAF had a serious look at the Rafale, a shame really for them that for one reason or another nothing really was made of this relatively strong finical position and that over time this was eroded to the point that when there are no longer any funds to buy the PAF is now seriously wanting to.

 

[SQ8]

Back in the late 90s/ early 00s the PAF was in a far better position than the IAF in terms of capital acquisition funds so you are no doubt correct the PAF had a serious look at the Rafale, a shame really for them that for one reason or another nothing really was made of this relatively strong finical position and that over time this was eroded to the point that when there are no longer any funds to buy the PAF is now seriously wanting to.

Both the Typhoon and Rafale were evaluated (without any of the fanfare that surrounded the MMRCA competition). Both were placed equally with the Rafale being more multi-role and the Typhoon placed better in A2A combat. However, the French were asking a price(equal to the price offered to India+ additional expenses) that was deemed too ridiculous(in their defence, the number of aircraft wanted was 2-3 sq at max). The EF still had too much European and American equipment on it that was prone to sanctions(which is why it is ironic that the F-16 was bought anyway).
You wont hear much about this except if you try and glean through the smaller stories in Flightglobal back in those days.. but a nice visual representation of these evaluations exists in this book.

As I have said repeatedly in the past. The lack of a CAG or otherwise much civilian interest(on a government level) on what goes on with the funds and activities within the Pakistani military leaves little room for such announcements or evaluation's to be made public.

 

[rockstar08]

The news of Pakistan acquiring Grippens was pretty hot a decade earlier while the F-16s were under embargo, i believe the PAF even tested it but once the F-16s became available, the idea was dropped, though capable aircraft but no where near the Block-52 class.
Gripens for Pakistan ?

@Windjammer by comparing the Electronics and Avionics of both F-16s and Gripen they seems on same level to me , are you pointing out the fact that PAF pilots have more experience on F-16s ?

thanks for the detail description for both ...
+rating for this post from me

 

[thrilainmanila]

the latest grippen is levels above the JF-17, its better then the BLK-52s or SU-30MKIs. the latest JAS-39 is comparable to the EF-2000.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Gripen ......lol its history

We moved to better and more logical items for our forces we are talking Block 2 ... Gripen is HISTORY

We are moving to 5th Generation now ...

 

[Donatello]

Had a couple of sorties in it. This was back in the late 90's/Early 2000s. Remember, back then the aircraft was the pre-production versions which were then being showed off to various Aviation journals with Rafale B1 version



This whole tale of JAS-39 vs the JF-17 is superfluous. There was NEVER any competition between the two since the JF-17 was going to be there come hell or high water. The Gripen was considered by the PAF back in 2003 when the economy was booming the the first "elections" had taken place, the Swedish government had agreed on the Erieye in Principal and the PAF was now looking for its next important need which was the new strike fighter. The Gripen was considered but as such the version available then(C/D) was essentially still an air-defence fighter which the PAF already had enough of. The Mirage-2000 was the wish to have since the PAF was wary of the F-16 due to the sanctions bit, however as things turned out the F-16 was ordered anyway.

If anything , it should be "arguments of choosing the F-16-block-52 over Gripen"

Wouldn't the BLK52 be superior to Gripen in any case? With its proven capabilities and the fact that previous PAF aircraft were able to get the near same level through MLUs?


And i think the JF-17 quoted combat range here, is a bit too much. 1320 is a lot of range for a small aircraft of that size.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Looking at the Specifications of Gripen and JF17 thunder , its obvious that JF17 Thunder is a superior plane and ideal for Need for Pakistani forces and it meets and exceeds our expectations

With the Arrival of JF17 Thunder Block 2 , we are looking at enhanced fighting capabilities of already proven plane that our forces have been successfully flying for their Operations.

We know what is coming ahead for JF17 Thunder

a) Better Avionics
b) Better Radar , Chinese AESA
c) Integration with Chinese AWACs platform
d) Not to mention ability to enhance the plane with Engine & Missiles of our choice
f) New CHINESE engine TOP of line

FREEDOM ... that is something Gripen could never provide

We would be going to Sweeden for a Seat replacement or LED light replacement


Option 1 : JF17 Thunder On level with F16 C/D , new planes , new engines , new avionics ability to have 300 of these planes

Option 2 : 20 -30 Odd Gripen planes , expensive and unproven nice paint job but nothing more

JF17 thunder is actively being used to fight Terrorism and missions against Enemy targets its a PROVEN bird now


If we had got 36 J10B we would be envey of world Airforces however our Air Cheif , was out of his mind to not go for J1OB ... beauti of a plane

Just imagine the prestige we would have had
JF 17 Thunder ----------F16 C/D ------------------J10B ..