Pakistan cruise missiles pose key challenge to India

[Secur]

Why cant you understand??!!We have already have a ramjet used in Akash SAM,we are developing one for the Supersonic LRCM

Do you really think that both ramjets on different class of missiles are going to be similar or somehow can be replaced with each other ? The Brahmos isn't an indigenous missile and the second one is under development , isn't it ?

Political will , is never the only reason .

And we were involved in the development of those,right??

Not trolling but,do Pakistan have capability to develop a turbofan.?

Sure were , where did you see I denial ?

With two different variants of turbofan in service , I wouldn't really ask that question .

 

[gslv mk3]

Do you really think that both are ramjets are going to be similar or somehow can be replaced with each other ? The Brahmos isn't an indigenous missile and the second one is under development , isn't it ?

What is the need to re engineer the Brahmos?,They may not be similar since Indian one is made for a different missile,And we have a joint developed SCM,and another one under development,What have Pakistan got??Thats why I said we are ahead in Supersonic Cruise missiles

With two different variants of turbofan in service , I wouldn't really ask that question .

link??

 

[Secur]

What is the need to re engineer the Brahmos?,They may not be similar since Indian one is made for a different missile,And we have a joint developed SCM,and another one under development,What have Pakistan got??Thats why I said we are ahead in Supersonic Cruise missiles

link??

That isn't really the question here , do you think both are somehow similar to each other , being used on different classes of missiles and somehow interchangeable ? The answer there is no , there's no similarity except the same class of missile propulsion . Mate , I am not denying that you do not have the supersonic cruise missile , there's no evidence to prove that you have got all the technology to develop it by yourself You are developing the guidance package and electronics , this is really not the game changer here , it takes much more to develop a cruise missile indigenously . Because , you have been doing the guidance systems for dozens of different missile already , there you have the relevant experience . Think you have the SCM technology yet you are facing much difficulty in the Nirbhay project , why ? Propulsion , the main system , which still comes from the Russians and something for which the Kremlin isn't ready to transfer the technology for , is the culprit here . The next thing would be integration of different systems to work in unison . Well , it is under development , right ? Well , we still have two operational , all by ourselves . Nothing in Supersonic regime there , sure , but just how many countries have indigenously developed a cruise missile ?

Link for Babur and Raad ? I wasn't talking about the aircraft turbofan engine .

 

[gslv mk3]

That isn't really the question here , do you think both are somehow similar to each other , being used on different classes of missiles and somehow interchangeable ? The answer there is no , there's no similarity except the same class of missile propulsion

Not actually,both are used on Supersonic CMs right??And what is the purpose of replacing the Russian one in Brahmos with an Indian one??

Mate , I am not denying that you do not have the supersonic cruise missile

is that a typo ??,

there's no evidence to prove that you have got all the technology to develop it by yourself You are developing the guidance package and electronics , this is really not the game changer here , it takes much more to develop a cruise missile indigenously .

Mate just check my previous post,We have an indigenous ramjet engine used in Akash,We have Ramjet technology for an Supersonic Cruise Missile(liquid fuel ramjet engine project),and We have two independent Scramjet programs(already ground tested).Regarding the Airframe,we have already developed airframe for our hypersonic missile prototype HSTDV and there are facilities in India to test the aerodynamic,aerothermodynamic properties of properties of airframe (read Shock tunnels,Hypersonic wind tunnels,Supercomputers and softwares).And we do have enough expertise in navigation,and an Indigenous Ring Laser Gyroscope

Isnt that enough?To add to that we have a long range SCM and a hypersonic vehicle in development(first flight in 2014)

Beause , you have been doing the guidance systems for dozens of different missile already , there you have the relevant experience .
Think you have the SCM technology yet you are facing much difficulty in the Nirbhay project , why ?

Mate,the problem with Nirbhay was suspected to be a problem with INS and related guidance components and not the propulsion,DRDO have enough experience in developing them,they have turbofans ranging from the Kaveri to the small PTAE 7(one used in target drone Lakshya)

Propulsion , the main system , which still comes from the Russians and something for which the Kremlin isn't ready to transfer the technology for , is the culprit here . The next thing would be integration of different systems to work in unison . Well , it is under development , right ?

No mate the Engine of Supersonic LRCM and Nirbhay are Indian,if you want links,I can give you that.

Well , we still have two operational , all by ourselves . Nothing in Supersonic regime there , sure , but just how many countries have indigenously developed a cruise missile ?

That is nothing less of an acheivement,thats why Indians here agree that Pakistan is ahead in Subsonic Cruise Missiles

Link for Babur and Raad ? I wasn't talking about the aircraft turbofan engine .

No,about engines used on Babur and raad.

 

[kurup]

No one can , it was a typing mistake

You understand the post wrong , I meant mastering the former should in theory result in mastering the latter , I said it would look absurd that a country is ahead in the supersonic regime of cruise missile but lacks behind in the subsonic one .

Except for propulsion , there's no substantial difference , from what I understand and that was just an example to help understand the point .

As for the difference between the two types , may be there's no substantial difference or may be not .

We will have to wait till the entire details of Nirbhay to come out to determine why there is a delay and call it absurdity or not .

 

[Secur]

Not actually,both are used on Supersonic CMs right??And what is the purpose of replacing the Russian one in Brahmos with an Indian one??

is that a typo ??,

Mate just check my previous post,We have an indigenous ramjet engine used in Akash,We have Ramjet technology for an Supersonic Cruise Missile(liquid fuel ramjet engine project),and We have two independent Scramjet programs(already ground tested).Regarding the Airframe,we have already developed airframe for our hypersonic missile prototype HSTDV and there are facilities in India to test the aerodynamic,aerothermodynamic properties of properties of airframe (read Shock tunnels,Hypersonic wind tunnels,Supercomputers and softwares).And we do have enough expertise in navigation,and an Indigenous Ring Laser Gyroscope

Isnt that enough?To add to that we have a long range SCM and a hypersonic vehicle in development(first flight in 2014)

Mate,the problem with Nirbhay was suspected to be a problem with INS and related guidance components and not the propulsion,DRDO have enough experience in developing them,they have turbofans ranging from the Kaveri to the small PTAE 7(one used in target drone Lakshya)

No mate the Engine of Supersonic LRCM and Nirbhay are Indian,if you want links,I can give you that.

That is nothing less of an acheivement,thats why Indians here agree that Pakistan is ahead in Subsonic Cruise Missiles

No,about engines used on Babur and raad.

That is the point , not necessarily . Both are used on different classes of missile , why are you developing the liquid fuel ramjet if you already have one operational with Akash interceptor missile ? Why then develop a new one , instead of using the already tested system ? The answer is that the one used on the ballistic missile , wont do with the cruise one . It was a hypothetical question , even though I will not deny that self reliance in developing the whole package for Brahmos wont be an advantage .

No , not this time .

I was talking about Brahmos there , referring to claims of complete transfer of technology . Mate , I have checked your post . You still do not have an operational all Indian cruise missile . I know of the ambitious projects , both planned and currently under development but I should repeat again , that they would take years of further development before giving fruitful results . Capability hasn't translated into an ability there yet . The plans and development sure are enough , but the operational status isn't there yet , not even on the Nirbhay , which the DRDO claimed to have a test flight again in less than two months .

Usually I do not argue like that , but doing only 30 percent of the intended target doesn't really look like a only-guidance problem to me for some reason . Strange that the missile had to be terminated only after covering ~ 200 KM's . You design the guidance system for the Jointly Developed Supersonic Cruise Missile Brahmos , right ? Then , again , in theory , developing it for a subsonic cruise missile shouldn't have been a hindrance . Because the work on Nirbhay started somewhere in 2007 , however the same isn't true for Brahmos , which had its first test flight in 2001 . You see where I am going with this ? Integration and making it to work in unison is a whole different story .

No , I am sure they are . There , again , I referred to Brahmos .

I agree you have superior technology and capability , the time frame where it translates into a mature operational weapon however remains to be seen .

I am not sure , if I have ever seen any specific links for an engine used on a missile .

 

[gslv mk3]

That is the point , not necessarily . Both are used on different classes of missile , why are you developing the liquid fuel ramjet if you already have one operational with Akash interceptor missile ? Why then develop a new one , instead of using the already tested system ?

Are you such ignorant??Akash and LRCM are different missiles ,specifications including weight and thrust may vary,and the altitude at with both operate may be different,And what should I do to make you understand?We have ground tested scramjets,so Ramjets are not a problem for us!!

The answer is that the one used on the ballistic missile , wont do with the cruise one .

Ramjets on a ballistic missile?Are you joking?

It was a hypothetical question , even though I will not deny that self reliance in developing the whole package for Brahmos wont be an advantage .

You mean self reliance in developing the whole Package for Brahmos would be an advantage right??

 

[gslv mk3]

@Secur mate,it seems that the flight was terminated by DRDO,after it veered of its cost

“The cruising phase was all right, and the way-pointing, navigation systems worked well during the first 20 minutes of the flight,” said DRDO technologists. The tracking necessitated the missile’s designated path to be close to the coast. After the missile had cruised for around 250 km at an altitude of 4.5 km, it started drifting from its path and since it posed a threat to safety on the coast, the technologists switched off its engine and aborted the flight.

Nirbhay strays from flight path, aborted - The Hindu

 

[Secur]

Are you such ignorant??Akash and LRCM are different missiles ,specifications including weight and thrust may vary,and the altitude at with both operate may be different,And what should I do to make you understand?We have ground tested scramjets,so Ramjets are not a problem for us!!

Ramjets on a ballistic missile?Are you joking?

You mean self reliance in developing the whole Package for Brahmos would be an advantage right??

You aren't getting the point of my post . I know they are completely different because both are intended for different class of missile hence a new one is being developed . What else could be the reason ? Since you have one operational , it would have been easy to use the proven technology than bother to develop a new one . Then , again , you have the SLV thing to consider for different nations , capability doesn't equal ability , mate .

Refers to the versatility of different platforms meaning that the propulsion system used one one missile isn't necessarily compatible with the other . Though , Akash isn't a cruise missile .

Yep !

 

[Secur]

@Secur mate,it seems that the flight was terminated by DRDO,after it veered of its cost

Mate , it can be both propulsion and guidance or any one of them is such case . Veering off target complicates things . I would have understood if it would have missed the intended target or passed over or fell before it , but the story of ' initiation of self destruct sequence for public safety ' doesn't fare well with problems with Inertial Guidance system thing here .

 

[gslv mk3]

You aren't getting the point of my post . I know they are completely different because both are intended for different class of missile hence a new one is being developed . What else could be the reason ? Since you have one operational , it would have been easy to use the proven technology than bother to develop a new one . Then , again , you have the SLV thing to consider for different nations , capability doesn't equal ability , mate .

Well DRDO usually have the habit of going for home grown products although they have ability to develop a Ramjet.

 

[gslv mk3]

Mate , it can be both propulsion and guidance or any one of them is such case . Veering off target complicates things . I would have understood if it would have missed the intended target or passed over or fell before it , but the story of ' initiation of self destruct sequence for public safety ' doesn't fare well with problems with Inertial Guidance system thing here .

Can you please explain??

 

[Secur]

Can you please explain??

This is the DRDO's statement , you posted , right ?

After the missile had cruised for around 250 km at an altitude of 4.5 km, it started drifting from its path and since it posed a threat to safety on the coast, the technologists switched off its engine and aborted the flight.

Mate , unlike ballistic missile which tend to follow a fixed trajectory , the same isn't true for a cruise missile which can follow variable trajectory and have a higher degree of maneuverability than the former . Even if the missile had drifted from its path , course corrections could have been applied to put it on the right path . But then again , the problem can be with either one of them or both . Even propulsion looks like a culprit here though both work in tandem .

Well DRDO usually have the habit of going for home grown products although they have ability to develop a Ramjet.

DRDO has a proven ramjet inside Akash interceptor , they aren't developing it again but rather developing a new one for different class of missile .

 

[rockstar08]

It is already fact that 1pakistani = 10 Indian, so why this missile .

and 1 sunny deol = 500,000 pakistan army
why dont you guys just send your Actors they will be enough to capture world and make your super power
and i hope in few years india will make a new version of Ak-47 from which they will destroy CM,BM

funny indians

 

[AMCA]

Shooting down a cruise missile is a challenge and I hope our ABM suit , especially the AAD will be capable to handle a cruise missile intercept.