Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[ali_raza]

heavy price tag... you can get a battery of other guns in price of one G 6

@denel

 

[denel]

@denel

Not true; that is a myth propagated by other sellers or buyers. This baby can nail a fly on a wall over 50km, mine proof, go where no truck or tracked vehicle can go - sure you will pay a bit more because there is nothing else in this league.

Try take US or Russian tracked equipment across the namib - they will all break down within 300km if not less.

 

[Signalian]

@Inception-06 and @Arsalan , i find both of you well versed on Artillery systems. The purposes of all artillery systems are the same, they have various construction, fire and maneuver possibilities and battle applicability methods. Below are some inputs on which mathematical calculations are subjected to simulations to design Artillery systems of the future.

The calibre – the large shell (mine) calibre the large degree of fire destruction, it acts positively on the fire power, the measurement unit is mm.

Maximum gunfire range – the large gunfire range the further destruction distance and the more hit of enemy targets, it acts positively on the fire power; also, the large gunfire range the low probability to hit own objects, it acts positively on the durability; the measurement unit is m.

The rotation angle of gun tube – the large angle the less time of fire maneuver and of take aim, it acts positively on the fire power. The vertical rotation angle provides a shooting range and the horizontal one provides a broad battlefront of take aim; the measurement unit is a degree.

Number of tubes (for MLRS) – the more number the much volley intensity and the large bombardment area, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is a piece.

Weight of the shell – the large weight the large destruction degree of target, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is kq.

Fire rate – the high rate the many affected targets in unit time, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is 1/min (shoot/min).

Shell's initial velocity – the high velocity the less dispersion angle of shells and the high shooting accuracy and target hit probability, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is m/san.

The weight of ordnance – the more weight the less maneuver possibilities, it acts negatively on the mobility and applicability; the measurement unit is kq.

Size of ordnance – the large size the less maneuver possibilities on the battle field, it acts negatively on the mobility, the much revealing probability on the enemy part, it acts negatively on the durability; the measurement unit is m3(meter cube) .

Number of operating staff – the more number the much probability revealing and hitting probability on the enemy part; if the ordnance is destroyed then the loss of staff is more, therefore it acts negatively on the durability. This impact is proportional to staff number.

Ammunition equipment – the many equipment the more duration of uninterrupted fight activities on the battle field, it acts positively on the fier power and durability; the measurement unit is a piece.

Movement possibility (for SPG) – it acts positively on the movement on the battlefield. It is an integrated factor of the velocity movement and one fuellng determined of passed distance; the measurement unit is km2 /hour.

Above factors when relating to Combat effectiveness and the performance characteristics of Artillery subsystems weapons :

1) Mortars: calibre, maximum gunfire range, vertical and horizontal rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, shell initial velocity, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment

2) Howitzers and Field Guns: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, shell initial velocity, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment and size of ordnance

Howitzers are able to achieve better elevation angles than field Guns.

3) Multiple rocket weapons: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment, size of ordnance, number of tubes and maneuver possibilities;

4) Self-propelled artillery: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment, size of ordnance and movement possibilities.

 

[Inception-06]

@Inception-06 and @Arsalan , i find both of you well versed on Artillery systems. The purposes of all artillery systems are the same, they have various construction, fire and maneuver possibilities and battle applicability methods. Below are some inputs on which mathematical calculations are subjected to simulations to design Artillery systems of the future.

The calibre – the large shell (mine) calibre the large degree of fire destruction, it acts positively on the fire power, the measurement unit is mm.

Maximum gunfire range – the large gunfire range the further destruction distance and the more hit of enemy targets, it acts positively on the fire power; also, the large gunfire range the low probability to hit own objects, it acts positively on the durability; the measurement unit is m.

The rotation angle of gun tube – the large angle the less time of fire maneuver and of take aim, it acts positively on the fire power. The vertical rotation angle provides a shooting range and the horizontal one provides a broad battlefront of take aim; the measurement unit is a degree.

Number of tubes (for MLRS) – the more number the much volley intensity and the large bombardment area, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is a piece.

Weight of the shell – the large weight the large destruction degree of target, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is kq.

Fire rate – the high rate the many affected targets in unit time, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is 1/min (shoot/min).

Shell's initial velocity – the high velocity the less dispersion angle of shells and the high shooting accuracy and target hit probability, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is m/san.

The weight of ordnance – the more weight the less maneuver possibilities, it acts negatively on the mobility and applicability; the measurement unit is kq.

Size of ordnance – the large size the less maneuver possibilities on the battle field, it acts negatively on the mobility, the much revealing probability on the enemy part, it acts negatively on the durability; the measurement unit is m3(meter cube) .

Number of operating staff – the more number the much probability revealing and hitting probability on the enemy part; if the ordnance is destroyed then the loss of staff is more, therefore it acts negatively on the durability. This impact is proportional to staff number.

Ammunition equipment – the many equipment the more duration of uninterrupted fight activities on the battle field, it acts positively on the fier power and durability; the measurement unit is a piece.

Movement possibility (for SPG) – it acts positively on the movement on the battlefield. It is an integrated factor of the velocity movement and one fuellng determined of passed distance; the measurement unit is km2 /hour.

Above factors when relating to Combat effectiveness and the performance characteristics of Artillery subsystems weapons :

1) Mortars: calibre, maximum gunfire range, vertical and horizontal rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, shell initial velocity, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment

2) Howitzers and Field Guns: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, shell initial velocity, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment and size of ordnance

Howitzers are able to achieve better elevation angles than field Guns.

3) Multiple rocket weapons: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment, size of ordnance, number of tubes and maneuver possibilities;

4) Self-propelled artillery: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment, size of ordnance and movement possibilities.

Good morning friend, since weeks you are writing excellent articles, I hope I haven't over see any, now I am on the way to matallurgie-academy, I will read your post , and join the discussion after the training, I have some vital points to discuss, which are overseen here since years, wish you the best take care.

 

[Path-Finder]

Nammo unveils ramjet artillery shell
Written by defenceWeb -
15th Jun 2018
2494

Rocket-assisted projectiles (RAP) have been around for decades, but Nammo has gone a step further by using a solid fuel ramjet to reach ranges of over 100km, which requires no modification to the 155mm gun.

Nammo on 12 June introduced the new round. “This could be a game-changer for artillery. With the exception of a small number of precision-guided shells with 50-60 km range, most artillery systems still fire across the same distances as they did when the M109 was introduced more than 50 years ago. This could completely change that,” said Thomas Danbolt, VP of Nammo’s Large Caliber Ammunitions unit.

Nammo’s new design is built around a compact solid fuel ramjet which is kick-started by launching it from a cannon, and is a collaborative program between ammunition and rocket engineers in Nammo.
“We have been building rocket motors for about 60 years, and have specialised in small and powerful motors for air-to-air missiles, such as Sidewinder, IRIS-T and AMRAAM. Some years ago, we began looking at using air-breathing motors to help extend their range, but we quickly saw the massive impact this could have if we fitted it to an artillery shell,” said Erland Ørbekk, VP Technology with Nammo’s business unit for Aerospace Propulsion.

Test firing of the new projectile is planned to commence in 2019-2020, while the new artillery ammunition concept will likely be operational around 2023-2024.
https://www.defenceweb.co.za/joint/...hnology/nammo-unveils-ramjet-artillery-shell/

 

[Inception-06]

@Inception-06 and @Arsalan , i find both of you well versed on Artillery systems. The purposes of all artillery systems are the same, they have various construction, fire and maneuver possibilities and battle applicability methods. Below are some inputs on which mathematical calculations are subjected to simulations to design Artillery systems of the future.

The calibre – the large shell (mine) calibre the large degree of fire destruction, it acts positively on the fire power, the measurement unit is mm.

Maximum gunfire range – the large gunfire range the further destruction distance and the more hit of enemy targets, it acts positively on the fire power; also, the large gunfire range the low probability to hit own objects, it acts positively on the durability; the measurement unit is m.

The rotation angle of gun tube – the large angle the less time of fire maneuver and of take aim, it acts positively on the fire power. The vertical rotation angle provides a shooting range and the horizontal one provides a broad battlefront of take aim; the measurement unit is a degree.

Number of tubes (for MLRS) – the more number the much volley intensity and the large bombardment area, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is a piece.

Weight of the shell – the large weight the large destruction degree of target, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is kq.

Fire rate – the high rate the many affected targets in unit time, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is 1/min (shoot/min).

Shell's initial velocity – the high velocity the less dispersion angle of shells and the high shooting accuracy and target hit probability, it acts positively on the fire power; the measurement unit is m/san.

The weight of ordnance – the more weight the less maneuver possibilities, it acts negatively on the mobility and applicability; the measurement unit is kq.

Size of ordnance – the large size the less maneuver possibilities on the battle field, it acts negatively on the mobility, the much revealing probability on the enemy part, it acts negatively on the durability; the measurement unit is m3(meter cube) .

Number of operating staff – the more number the much probability revealing and hitting probability on the enemy part; if the ordnance is destroyed then the loss of staff is more, therefore it acts negatively on the durability. This impact is proportional to staff number.

Ammunition equipment – the many equipment the more duration of uninterrupted fight activities on the battle field, it acts positively on the fier power and durability; the measurement unit is a piece.

Movement possibility (for SPG) – it acts positively on the movement on the battlefield. It is an integrated factor of the velocity movement and one fuellng determined of passed distance; the measurement unit is km2 /hour.

Above factors when relating to Combat effectiveness and the performance characteristics of Artillery subsystems weapons :

1) Mortars: calibre, maximum gunfire range, vertical and horizontal rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, shell initial velocity, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment

2) Howitzers and Field Guns: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, shell initial velocity, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment and size of ordnance

Howitzers are able to achieve better elevation angles than field Guns.

3) Multiple rocket weapons: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment, size of ordnance, number of tubes and maneuver possibilities;

4) Self-propelled artillery: calibre, maximum gunfire range, rotation angle of gun tube, weight of shell, fire rate, weight of ordnance, number of operating staff, ammunition equipment, size of ordnance and movement possibilities.

Our better times, when our guns brought fear in the Indian soldiers bone!

 

[Rafi]

Our better times, when our guns brought fear in the Indian soldier bones!

View attachment 586212 View attachment 586213 View attachment 586214 View attachment 586215 View attachment 586216

Even now our guns killing injuns, left right and centre.

 

[Signalian]

Our better times, when our guns brought fear in the Indian soldier bones!

View attachment 586212 View attachment 586213 View attachment 586214 View attachment 586215 View attachment 586216

They are proving their mettle on CFL. Different calibers 105 mm, 122 mm, 130 mm - all for IA.
AAA is another component for long range LOS fire with 12.7 mm, 14.5 mm, 35 mm.

Not true; that is a myth propagated by other sellers or buyers. This baby can nail a fly on a wall over 50km, mine proof, go where no truck or tracked vehicle can go - sure you will pay a bit more because there is nothing else in this league.

Try take US or Russian tracked equipment across the namib - they will all break down within 300km if not less.

UAE Army has found Rhino very effective.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Even the 155 SPs almost saw action in February this year. Were moved right to the border in a certain city of Punjab with their guns at the ready. I don’t believe they’ve been used since 1999. Maybe in the standoff.
Edit: I had been following their upgrade progression till winter 2018. There were still A2s in service at that time but the majority had been upgraded to A5.
Where exactly do the M109L’s fit into this upgrade chain? The regiments I was in contact with never got those.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Even the 155 SPs almost saw action in February this year. Were moved right to the border in a certain city of Punjab with their guns at the ready. I don’t believe they’ve been used since 1999. Maybe in the standoff.
Edit: I had been following their upgrade progression till winter 2018. There were still A2s in service at that time but the majority had been upgraded to A5.
Where exactly do the M109L’s fit into this upgrade chain? The regiments I was in contact with never got those.

I think they raised new SP regiments, not sure though.

I believe our @Signalian would know, considering he is also a Gunner’s son.

 

[Inception-06]

I think they raised new SP regiments, not sure though.

I believe our @Signalian would know, considering he is also a Gunner’s son.

May be from your fathers (respect for him) era? Induction of SPG-9 (@Signalian your favourite LOC gun) and 122mm KRL multiple rocket launcher?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

They are proving their mettle on CFL. Different calibers 105 mm, 122 mm, 130 mm - all for IA.
AAA is another component for long range LOS fire with 12.7 mm, 14.5 mm, 35 mm.


UAE Army has found Rhino very effective.

I remember I asked u a thing. You didnt replied

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I wonder, what would it take to reverse engineer the M109 series? I mean, we maintain a rebuild factory for these, so we understand how to put the M109s together. The issue is fabricating a new chassis, but if we invest in it, would it really be outside of our ability? The main challenges would likely be the howitzer gun, engine and electronics, but we could those off-the-shelf (or build under license via South Africa, Ukraine, China, etc).

 

[jamal18]

I wonder, what would it take to reverse engineer the M109 series? I mean, we maintain a rebuild factory for these, so we understand how to put the M109s together. The issue is fabricating a new chassis, but if we invest in it, would it really be outside of our ability? The main challenges would likely be the howitzer gun, engine and electronics, but we could those off-the-shelf (or build under license via South Africa, Ukraine, China, etc).

I believe that we cannot manufacture a Gun barrel. The rest should be no different to copying a heavy duty commercial vehicle.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

May be from your fathers (respect for him) era? Induction of SPG-9 (@Signalian your favourite LOC gun) and 122mm KRL multiple rocket launcher?




View attachment 586299

Thats way way before my father commanded an MLRS battery.

Heck my father joined graduated in 89.

I believe that we cannot manufacture a Gun barrel. The rest should be no different to copying a heavy duty commercial vehicle.

We do manufacture tank guns/smoothbore.