Youths protest against democracy

[AHMED85]

I hate MQM for their militant tendencies but let's not insult those who support the party. MQM is the third largest party right now and people support them for a reason. They have certainly done a lot for Karachi and people like them for this reason and also for their liberal views.

As for that Jinnahpur controversy, it turned out to be a false allegation later on.

you are right one... but i dont understand your word liberal. what kind...

 

[AHMED85]

this young people are very angry. but why they protest against democracy ? it is best system. just because they cant bring Davis to justice Pakistani govt has become bad? what military did for decades? they also would be not able to do bring Davis to justice.

bohat accchayyy .. i think they protest against the bad policy but not democracy...

 

[pak-marine]

Oye Yar... Pak Marine... Dont talk too much...

Once you start seeing the heads of MQM rolling and being detached from their bodies... These millions who vote for MQM will suddenly disappear...

..

oh yar main tu baat kar raha hoon par app tu bakwas kar rahey ho ... ! either way it highlights clearly the mind frame of this so called Foreign funded khilafat moment , May Allah guide you all.

 

[pak-marine]

These millions who want to separate Karachi from Pakistan should be treated like we treat TTP...

Whos the genius now...

i have no claims sir you hold the title genius i already addressed you with the same after reading your mind blowing posts ... lol

 

[Gazzi]

I am not addressing capital punishment however what is being punished.

Restrictions then are in place. This is also obvious from many countries as well.

I never addressed the tax system that can vary and isn't really an issue. I personally like across the board income taxing on all classes the most viable which is in line with equality.

I do hear this a lot but in reality human rights organizations across the board make it quite clear how overall rights in the ME are far below that of other areas. This varies of course from country to country but looking at ones with prominent populations like Iran and SA. Going into detail would take time but Freedom House: Women has a report on all the countries that is a interesting read of each one concerning their women rights. You can see how some tried to make reforms and give women more rights where others (Iran have taken rights away)

Also its interesting that you say "dress in a way that brings unwelcome behavior" it seems to me the level of self control that is present in men in the ME is almost none existent then in other areas and i find it interesting that this is in turn not blamed(even legally) on the person committing the act but instead on whether the women was too attractive. I guess completely covering yourself in a black sheet would certainly solve this in a very backward/obtuse type of way and completely miss the root problem.

Rape is illegal and holds with it heavy sentencing and the U.S. population is like 310 million people. Are you saying women not covering themselves in turn produces rapists so its their fault sorry don't follow you on that ? Being a animal is all down to choice and trying to blame it on someone else just shows how much of a lowlife that person is.

Domestic violence is extremely prominent in the ME and even viewed in many circles as normal so this point holds no value. Honor killings are also a form of domestic violence in the ME and the families that carry them out are always ones who are religious conservatives.

Jigs, you are failing to understand the answer having raised the question........You bought in about Democracy being the best system, I questioned that system and raised all the points that I did, women raped, sexually assaulted, millions raped by their own husbands, suffering Domestic Violence, Robbery, murder, peadophilia etc etc etc is rampant in your so called Democracy system, so how is that any better then say Shariah, or Communism or any other system....I bet the ROmans thought that about their system in their age, as does everyone else........

I raised points with regards to tax and capital punishment and other matters as you were not specific other then waving your arm against Shariah or Khilafah altogether, hence why the examples given.......I too have similar views and believe that a Khilafah should be given a chance in Pakistan and see how this works.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Bravo brother Gazzi... HuT or no HuT... Khilafat is the real noble goal...

Three cheers for my man Gazzi!!!!

 

[Jigs]

Jigs, you are failing to understand the answer having raised the question........You bought in about Democracy being the best system, I questioned that system and raised all the points that I did, women raped, sexually assaulted, millions raped by their own husbands, suffering Domestic Violence, Robbery, murder, peadophilia etc etc etc is rampant in your so called Democracy system, so how is that any better then say Shariah, or Communism or any other system....I bet the ROmans thought that about their system in their age, as does everyone else........

Failing to understand that you saying democracy some how produces more crime ? That has absolutely nothing to do with crime rates. I already pointed this out by highlighting domestic violence in the ME and even made a counter point since honor killings are carried out by conservative religious families. You addressed none of my counter points.

I raised points with regards to tax and capital punishment and other matters as you were not specific other then waving your arm against Shariah or Khilafah altogether, hence why the examples given.......I too have similar views and believe that a Khilafah should be given a chance in Pakistan and see how this works.

Look there is reality and there is fantasy. So far in reality every application of this system has failed. Democracy has not. It is funny you bring up Pakistan considering what laws based on religion (like the blasphemy laws) have brought to the country. Not only was the concept of having laws based on moral faith laughable the people took it another step further and decided to abuse these for personal gain. Then comes the even more ridiculous i should say sad part when the government made a attempt to change the laws which resulted in a prominent political figure being gunned down (protests arising in support of this as well as having the same done to anyone else that were against the law) and religious figures personally calling for citizens to have people that "violated" these laws killed(regardless of what the court verdict was). All this violence caused the government to drop all efforts in repealing this failed law including even the idea of altering it to not be used for personal motives. This was reality and a perfect example of what happens when religion is mixed with politics and more so actual laws. I don't need to go further do i ? Concerning freedom of speech and such?

 

[RazorMC]

Democracy only works if the right people get elected.

We have people in the assemblies that lied about their education. It is all right for someone not to be highly educated since our previous governments never made any worthwile attempt to improve the education sector. But lying just to become eligible for elections is disgusting.

Most of them are not experts in any field and yet they get to vote on important bills etc. I support democracy but with more technocrats rather than popular figures in important positions. We haven't even begun to appoint people based on merit yet we have already decided that democracy has failed. Let's give it a chance first then decide.

If we have corrupt and self-interested individuals then no system will work for us.

 

[Desert Fox]

Also its interesting that you say "dress in a way that brings unwelcome behavior" it seems to me the level of self control that is present in men in the ME is almost none existent then in other areas and i find it interesting that this is in turn not blamed(even legally) on the person committing the act but instead on whether the women was too attractive. I guess completely covering yourself in a black sheet would certainly solve this in a very backward/obtuse type of way and completely miss the root problem.

no where is it compulsory in Islam for women to cover them selves up in black sheets, that is more of a pre-Islamic Arab tribal tradition so don't twist things up. In Islam its compulsory for both men and women to dress modestly and that doesn't mean "covering yourself up in black sheets", funny how you try to give Islamic values a bad image, but again failed attempt.

And secondly, yes if a woman is dressing up in a provocative manner she will certainly get harassed, raped, and degraded! Women in the west get no respect, they are only used as a tool of pleasure to look at, use, dump, and then move on to the next. Women of the west have no family values, no morals and ethics! They think that their good looks, they way they dress provocatively, and their money will gain them respect in the male part of society which is why there is a growing trend amongst western men to marry women from Eastern countries primarily Russia and China.

Below video is a good example of how western men view their own women:

you can notice in the above video that the women are in denial mode and are blaming the men for not being able to control themselves while not acknowledging their own provocative clothes. On the other hand right in front of the women their are men with cameras taking photos of the women's bottoms right in front of the women (hypocrisy at its best).

Also in the beginning of the video you can see that the guy says that "sisters don't dress like b!tches, these are b!tches" (he signals at the women who are dressed provocatively).

If you've never been to America then i highly suggest you go and live their for at least a month and see their culture, you will notice that even on children's/teens television programs little girls dress like strippers, infact their was this controversial issue once that on the annual "teens/Kids choice awards" (children's version of the Grammy/Oscar) in which one of the female teen celeb was dancing on a pole in leather short shorts (very short and tight shorts) as if it were a strip club and she was only 16 years old at the time of this performance (the adult age in America is 18), in fact i'll post the video for that:

if you watch American tv programs and television you will notice how much they degrade women. On MTV (very famous amongst teens) they play rap, rock, and R&B videos daily and in these videos the degradation of women will never go unnoticed! Music videos and songs like "Wait": by Ying Yang twins", "Disco Inferno": By 50 cent", "What you know about that": By T.I", "Cold but still here": by Evans Blue", and hundreds of other popular songs are full of degradation of women and the worst part is that these artists and singers get money for this stuff which indicates how much their degrading, immoral songs are popular amongst the young minds.

i grew up in the west as a kid and a teenager, 17 years of my life in America.

Rape is illegal and holds with it heavy sentencing and the U.S. population is like 310 million people. Are you saying women not covering themselves in turn produces rapists so its their fault sorry don't follow you on that ? Being a animal is all down to choice and trying to blame it on someone else just shows how much of a lowlife that person is.

they don't "produce" rapists, however if you dress like provocatively (meaning half nude, skin hugging clothing, or 80% nude) then yes you are highly likely to get disrespectful looks, degrading remarks, and even raped or harassed.

 

[Jigs]

Your stereotyping silent you know many women don't dress like that. The women being portrayed in music videos as such have a appeal to a certain audience and protray a certain amount of sex appeal (this obvously doesn't mean you go and assault them and you also have no right to or justification because of how they dress) just like in turn playing videos games where the prominent idea is murder does not mean you actually start killing people. Similar to **** having a appeal to a audience or modeling. No one actually has any right to tell these people how they need to dress that is their choice and there is a dress code in schools and many other places. Many women in the U.S. dress normally and some don't that is their choice and if you decide to assault them in anyway they you are in turn jailed. So i don't see anything wrong with how anyone dresses since i am a respectful and liberal person. Forcing someone to dress in a way you find appropriate is oppressive and wrong.



Think of the religious cartoons. The artist has a right to draw them and you have the right to protest against it but if you actually go and kill the guy you are at fault the man drawing the cartoons has to right to do it. If you don't allow him that right that is censorship and is against freedom of expression it is a oppression of human rights.

You don't go around actually censoring peoples rights because it might lead to them being assaulted or killed that is backward thinking.

 

[Gazzi]

Jigs, we both clearly are in dispute over each others viewpoint, I too do not believe Democracy has and can work and it degrades women and society in general, it breeds crime and a total breakdown of any social lifestyle, greed and selfishness takes over and flourishes in these sort of societies........thi is my viewpoint.......on the other hand, you wish to point out some ME countires, despite the fact that there is not a single Muslim country, Muslim meaning one which follows the Shariah in complete, so for you to give such an example is absurd to say the least......those who carry out honour killings should not portray Islam or be associated to it, why, well because 72% of the british population claimed to be Christian in the last census, does that mean, every crime committed by one of them is the blame of Christianity..........silly logic you are using.....

Denying that women dont dress like this or that, is not an argument, but an excuse........they too are as much to blame when raped due to their unnecessary overtures, which by the way, they do themselves....and please dont use the argument that women like to dress up in a provocative way to "make themselves feel better", it is more like attracting the opposite sex........

It is quite ironic, that a Jew can grow his beard, as he is practicing his faith but when a Muslim grows a beard he is a fanatic and extremist, Why a nun can be covered from head to toe in order to devote herself to God but when Muslimah does the same she is being oppressed, When a western women stays at home to look after her house and kids she is respected because of sacrificing herself and doing good for the household, But when a Muslim woman does so by her will, they say, "she needs to be liberated, Any girl can go to university wearing what she wills and have her rights and freedom, But when Muslimah wears a Hijab they prevent her from entering her university, When a child dedicates himself to a subject he has potential, But when he dedicates himself to Islam he is hopeless, When a Christian or a Jew kills someone religion is not mentioned, but when Muslim is charged with a crime, it is Islam that goes to trial........................YOUR DEMOCRACY

 

[Jigs]

Jigs, we both clearly are in dispute over each others viewpoint, I too do not believe Democracy has and can work and it degrades women and society in general, it breeds crime and a total breakdown of any social lifestyle, greed and selfishness takes over and flourishes in these sort of societies........thi is my viewpoint.......on the other hand, you wish to point out some ME countires, despite the fact that there is not a single Muslim country, Muslim meaning one which follows the Shariah in complete, so for you to give such an example is absurd to say the least......those who carry out honour killings should not portray Islam or be associated to it, why, well because 72% of the british population claimed to be Christian in the last census, does that mean, every crime committed by one of them is the blame of Christianity..........silly logic you are using.....

Again you don't address my points but go on another rant. To have a viewpoint on democracy you have to back it up and you don't with anything factual except stereotypes. It is funny you call my logic silly when you missed the whole point of the post. Honor killings a religious occurrence just because you say it isn't associated with Islam and it may or not be doesn't mean they are not carried out by people that think it is. The same goes for extremist elements. Sure it is not the majority but there is still a problem with extremist suicide bombing in the name of Islam. Do remember what started the wars it was Islamic extremism.

Denying that women dont dress like this or that, is not an argument, but an excuse........they too are as much to blame when raped due to their unnecessary overtures, which by the way, they do themselves....and please dont use the argument that women like to dress up in a provocative way to "make themselves feel better", it is more like attracting the opposite sex........

Thinks for proving my point of this backward thinking. They have this same thinking in Iran and the hang the women who is raped.

It is quite ironic, that a Jew can grow his beard, as he is practicing his faith but when a Muslim grows a beard he is a fanatic and extremist, Why a nun can be covered from head to toe in order to devote herself to God but when Muslimah does the same she is being oppressed, When a western women stays at home to look after her house and kids she is respected because of sacrificing herself and doing good for the household, But when a Muslim woman does so by her will, they say, "she needs to be liberated, Any girl can go to university wearing what she wills and have her rights and freedom, But when Muslimah wears a Hijab they prevent her from entering her university, When a child dedicates himself to a subject he has potential, But when he dedicates himself to Islam he is hopeless, When a Christian or a Jew kills someone religion is not mentioned, but when Muslim is charged with a crime, it is Islam that goes to trial........................YOUR DEMOCRACY

I am not stereotyping anything. Nor am i saying women can't dress a certain way however you are and even justifying why they were raped that is quite disgusting. There is no point for me to go any further i have made all the points i need to.

 

[Gazzi]

Again you don't address my points but go on another rant. To have a viewpoint on democracy you have to back it up and you don't with anything factual except stereotypes. It is funny you call my logic silly when you missed the whole point of the post. Honor killings a religious occurrence just because you say it isn't associated with Islam and it may or not be doesn't mean they are not carried out by people that think it is. The same goes for extremist elements. Sure it is not the majority but there is still a problem with extremist suicide bombing in the name of Islam. Do remember what started the wars it was Islamic extremism.

I am not stereotyping anything. Nor am i saying women can't dress a certain way however you are and even justifying why they were raped that is quite disgusting. There is no point for me to go any further i have made all the points i need to.

I agree..........You too are avoiding all of my points which I raised with regards to Democracy and trying to use the age old argument of if you ssay a thousand times, that Honour Killings are done by Muslims then it will become part of Islam........no sorry, this is not the case, you yourself admit that it may or may be of Islam but carried out by people who think it may be.........this is a lack of education within Muslims and as any community, there are black sheep in every community, however this is not the fault of islam but Muslims who follow traditions of others, I am talking about a Khilafah based on shariah, you Sir wish to dilute the topic with other poison whcih is narrowed to some single points held in a stubborn fashion......to your Sir be your way and to me mine..............

 

[Desert Fox]

Your stereotyping silent

not stereotyping, just backing my arguments with facts!

you know many women don't dress like that

some don't, but i don't know about "many".

.

The women being portrayed in music videos as such have a appeal to a certain audience and protray a certain amount of sex appeal

in other words they are portrayed as objects of sexual pleasure and nothing more, i don't see how that is a good image to present of women.

(this obvously doesn't mean you go and assault them and you also have no right to or justification because of how they dress)

yeah like that's going to change the fact that women are portrayed as sexual objects, i'm sure you know that the most common word used to describe a girl in America is the word "b!!tch" (don't know about you but its commonly used in my generation).

just like in turn playing videos games where the prominent idea is murder does not mean you actually start killing people.

you can't compare women to video games, or are you implying that women are like video games, you play them and when a new video game comes out you throw the old one out.

Similar to **** having a appeal to a audience or modeling.

appeal, or do you mean degradation of women in order to satisfy men's lust?

No one actually has any right to tell these people how they need to dress

actually yes they do, there is a limit to everything and you shouldn't go beyond that limit otherwise you will face the consequences whatever they may be (ie rape, harassment)!

as i said, so much for respecting women by depicting them as sexual objects.

that is their choice and there is a dress code in schools and many other places. Many women in the U.S. dress normally and some don't that is their choice and if you decide to assault them in anyway they you are in turn jailed. So i don't see anything wrong with how anyone dresses since i am a respectful and liberal person. Forcing someone to dress in a way you find appropriate is oppressive and wrong.

true, however i do disagree with you where you mention that women dress normally (which they don't, jeez how are you telling me that, i spent 17 years in America, from childhood to adulthood, lived in the big apple, been to Penn state, New jersey, Washington, Virginia, Florida). America and west are secular, i have no problem with that but i just wanted to point out to you the flaws in democratic countries and the hypocrisy in leftist liberals and how west is run by immorality and materialism and i've made my point very clear.

Think of the religious cartoons. The artist has a right to draw them and you have the right to protest against it but if you actually go and kill the guy you are at fault the man drawing the cartoons has to right to do it. If you don't allow him that right that is censorship and is against freedom of expression it is a oppression of human rights.

me, personally i left it to Allah to deal with that guy who drew those cartoons but however i do condemn him for doing that, the only problem is that many Muslims resorted to violence in reply to what he did, now that is something you can't prevent and as i said before "when you cross the limits then be prepared to face the consequences"!

You don't go around actually censoring peoples rights because it might lead to them being assaulted or killed that is backward thinking.

and neither do you go around banning peoples religious freedom (France) and not allowing people in public facilities because of how they are dressed due to their religious beliefs (Turkey).

you liberals are just hypocrites at best!

 

[Desert Fox]

@jigs

if anyone's ranting then its you! Gazzi and i have made some good points and you have failed to refute us and instead you resorted to dismissing them as "rants".

Jigs, how come Muslim women aren't allowed to wear hijab and dress Islamically in universities in Schools in Turkey? Isn't this violating a persons rights? And what about france. We all see the hypocrisy of liberals!

one message, don't force democracy down our throats!