"YOU PAKISTANI'S ARE KILLING MACHINES."

[omegalamba7XL9]

The Raptor pilots also highlighted the value of flying against the Pakistani F-7s, which represented an interesting and representative ‘asymmetric threat’ aircraft, in service in countries like Iran and North Korea .

A detailed description of that proud moment please. Many sources many versions so it would be appreciated to clear some discrepancies for record sake. Thanks

 

[Ali_Baba]

The Rafale and Eurofighter was an unknown to most PAF pilots at that point in time, whereas the Rafale and Eurofighter pilots had many opportunities to train against F16s, so the initial results are not that suprising.

They knuckled down, took their knocks, learnt their lessons and came back with a vengance. Those training missions in those exercises are worth their weight in gold now, as PAF has built up a knowledge base against those aircraft and how to handle them.

JF17s outclasses everything in India from the Mig29, Su30MKI and Mirage 2000 series as proven last year when PAF shot down a Su30MKI and a Mig21. PAF can handle the current operational IAF with the Jeff.

JF17 Block III and the F16s Block 52+ can therefore together take on the Rafale's and neutralise them.

Never stop learning .. and be humble and train, and train...

 

[-=virus=-]

Good thing is that PAF pilots have good exposure in overseas deployments. Much more so than Indian pilots.

So flying for the Arabs etc was a 'deployment' ?

That was way back anyway.

IAF/IN naval wing do just as many multilateral drills, exercises with friendlies against US platforms such as the F-16 too.

 

[Thorough Pro]

It might appear as taking a pee on your fireworks but being the analytic I am, I find it more worrying than celebratory. Since it was an exercise PAF pilots got a second chance and a weeks time to learn, adapt, strategize and come on top, which in itself is very encouraging and reflects on the immense talent, sound training and quick thinking of the PAF pilots to quickly learn and adapt especially when PAF had been under sanctions for almost a decade but in war, you don't get a second chance. This is why constant training for PAF pilots is so essential.

Every individual pilot must be on top of his game, which should be on top of adversary's game. In the Vietnam war the USN found out that if the fighter pilots can somehow survive first few air battles, their chances of survival increased by a significant margin and that is how their Top Gun school came in to being to provide those preliminary yet very essential air battles in a safe and learning environment before being sent to the real war.

I know PAF pilots do a lot of training, but in order to come on top of an enemy that is 5 times bigger in size, has access to more and better equipment, is always looking for opportunities to disrupt the peace. We should provide better equipment and increased and enhanced training to our pilots.

OCCASION...The ATLC 2013 Multi-National Exercise in Al-Dhafra

PARTICIPANTS.....United States with F-22, F15E, E-3A aircraft, United Kingdom with EF-2000 and E3A aircraft; France with Rafael aircraft, United Arab Emirates with M-2000, F-16 Blk 60 aircraft Pakistan with F-16 Blk 52 + aircraft, and Jordan with F16 MLU aircraft.

CHIEF UMPIRE....

It didn't start well at all for the PAF as In the first week / initial days of the exercise, they took multiple hits, however at the end of the first phase of the exercise, they managed to salvage some pride and kept the score 50/50... Once the PAF Boys realised what they were up against and the tactics the Rafales, Typhoons and Eagles have adopted.... they regrouped, debriefed, re-planned and went on the offensive. Second week around the Chief Umpire made a special visit to the PAF camp as the PAF Falcons messed everyone up. Don't believe me? Ask the French Chief Umpire whose comments were:
"YOU PAKISTANI'S ARE KILLING MACHINES."

 

[denel]

The Rafale and Eurofighter was an unknown to most PAF pilots at that point in time, whereas the Rafale and Eurofighter pilots had many opportunities to train against F16s, so the initial results are not that suprising.

They knuckled down, took their knocks, learnt their lessons and came back with a vengance. Those training missions in those exercises are worth their weight in gold now, as PAF has built up a knowledge base against those aircraft and how to handle them.

JF17s outclasses everything in India from the Mig29, Su30MKI and Mirage 2000 series as proven last year when PAF shot down a Su30MKI and a Mig21. PAF can handle the current operational IAF with the Jeff.

JF17 Block III and the F16s Block 52+ can therefore together take on the Rafale's and neutralise them.

Never stop learning .. and be humble and train, and train...

how do come with this equation of > than? Everyone knows it was F16s not JF-17. JF-17 <> F-16 and i can write a mathematical logic function to show the inquality driving to iAF birds.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Interesting, brilliant, awesome. Does this mean that PAF F-16s successfully managed to take down F-22s?

We will never know, but it is possible, given the comment.

depends upon the saturation of the environment... 1v1, impossible but multiple f16s vs f22... could be

 

[Dreamer.]

Italy and Oman
That's the Italian contingent

But those two countries are not listed as the participants. UAE and jordan are. That's the confusion. Maybe listed participants are not correct.

 

[Armchair]

Actually am not implying that am myself some big hotshot or something......point is, the last 20 yrs, atleast for the Army, have been quiet interesting....decentralized execution, full initiative at all levels....NCOs, JCOs, Officers doing wonders.....its just that somehow, exploits of Army and PN dont get that attention, nor they are mentioned alot if compared to PAF......

We must remember just one thing....whether its the man in the cockpit, or the man behind the gun, or the man behind the periscope......its the same breed.....the same breed with the same thinking, same mind........

This is wonderful. I feel I have been most unfair in my analysis of the PA after reading this.

 

[SQ8]

Actually am not implying that am myself some big hotshot or something......point is, the last 20 yrs, atleast for the Army, have been quiet interesting....decentralized execution, full initiative at all levels....NCOs, JCOs, Officers doing wonders.....its just that somehow, exploits of Army and PN dont get that attention, nor they are mentioned alot if compared to PAF......

We must remember just one thing....whether its the man in the cockpit, or the man behind the gun, or the man behind the periscope......its the same breed.....the same breed with the same thinking, same mind........

Good to know - hopefully this mentality throws out folks like the former Lahore corps commander who recently was made to pay a paltry penalty for what was likely a much larger kitty he stole, a former FWO boss I am aware of with the same corruption - the entirety of an accounting office near saddar rawalpindi.. and many other CMH heads and so on..

But then the mistake is the constant assumption people make that the military is from “Jannat se utray howe” crop instead of the same one as everyone else. Institutional memory and training can only so much to stave off national character.

After all, Captain Safdar is someone’s husband and of the same crop.
Until the rot and weed is rooted out the danger of temptation with monetary misappropriation or greed will always remain - and the chance of sycophants running up the ladder and sending young men to their deaths due to their own incompetence will be high.

Unfortunately, since the start of dictatorship; it became a narrative of civvy vs military without realizing that the seed is the same.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

OCCASION...The ATLC 2013 Multi-National Exercise in Al-Dhafra

PARTICIPANTS.....United States with F-22, F15E, E-3A aircraft, United Kingdom with EF-2000 and E3A aircraft; France with Rafael aircraft, United Arab Emirates with M-2000, F-16 Blk 60 aircraft Pakistan with F-16 Blk 52 + aircraft, and Jordan with F16 MLU aircraft.

CHIEF UMPIRE....

It didn't start well at all for the PAF as In the first week / initial days of the exercise, they took multiple hits, however at the end of the first phase of the exercise, they managed to salvage some pride and kept the score 50/50... Once the PAF Boys realised what they were up against and the tactics the Rafales, Typhoons and Eagles have adopted.... they regrouped, debriefed, re-planned and went on the offensive. Second week around the Chief Umpire made a special visit to the PAF camp as the PAF Falcons messed everyone up. Don't believe me? Ask the French Chief Umpire whose comments were:
"YOU PAKISTANI'S ARE KILLING MACHINES."

Thanks for the post. Eid Mubarak to all.

It is important to know that the appellation "Graveyard of Empires" does not apply only to our Afghan cousins, but to Pakistan as well.

May Allah swt protect this nation and its valiants from the untoward eyes of the enemy.

 

[Arsalan Tauseef]

Any proof that this French umpire said this? Or is the original post supposed to be proof in itself ? I tried to google this and not surprisingly, the only link that came up was defence.pk .

Apparently another thread was opened about it in 2019 and surprisingly no one said anything about this fabled french umpire although the event is 7 years old.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-...-22-typhoons-rafales-eagles-block-60s.641062/

Now 7 years after the event, 1 year after the first post on the topic, the tales of PAF victory and the fabled french umpire have sprung up. But I guess feel good stories like this do brighten up the day, regardless of whether they are true or false.

Next story should be about how single Jf 17 destroyed 10 F22s and 10 F35s

Valid point.
But...
Hopefully, the custom of fault-finding and cross-questioning has also been established in your land.

 

[Hayreddin]

OCCASION...The ATLC 2013 Multi-National Exercise in Al-Dhafra

PARTICIPANTS.....United States with F-22, F15E, E-3A aircraft, United Kingdom with EF-2000 and E3A aircraft; France with Rafael aircraft, United Arab Emirates with M-2000, F-16 Blk 60 aircraft Pakistan with F-16 Blk 52 + aircraft, and Jordan with F16 MLU aircraft.

CHIEF UMPIRE....

It didn't start well at all for the PAF as In the first week / initial days of the exercise, they took multiple hits, however at the end of the first phase of the exercise, they managed to salvage some pride and kept the score 50/50... Once the PAF Boys realised what they were up against and the tactics the Rafales, Typhoons and Eagles have adopted.... they regrouped, debriefed, re-planned and went on the offensive. Second week around the Chief Umpire made a special visit to the PAF camp as the PAF Falcons messed everyone up. Don't believe me? Ask the French Chief Umpire whose comments were:
"YOU PAKISTANI'S ARE KILLING MACHINES."

It was in 2013 . Imagine same exercise in near future with combo of jft blk 3 and f16s with V upgrade .........

 

[Windjammer]

But those two countries are not listed as the participants. UAE and jordan are. That's the confusion. Maybe listed participants are not correct.

Maybe they participated just as observers anyways, here's a pronto article listing the same.

All’esercitazione hanno partecipato diverse Nazioni: Stati Uniti, con velivoli F-22, F15E, E-3A, Regno Unito, con velivoli EF-2000 e E3A; Francia, con velivoli Rafael, Emirati Arabi Uniti, con velivoli M-2000, F-16 Blk60, Pakistan, con velivoli F-16 Blk52+, e Giordania, con velivoli F16 MLU.

http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/co...oneATLC2013pressolabasediAlDhafra_231213.aspx

 

[Windjammer]

It might appear as taking a pee on your fireworks but being the analytic I am, I find it more worrying than celebratory. Since it was an exercise PAF pilots got a second chance and a weeks time to learn, adapt, strategize and come on top, which in itself is very encouraging and reflects on the immense talent, sound training and quick thinking of the PAF pilots to quickly learn and adapt especially when PAF had been under sanctions for almost a decade but in war, you don't get a second chance. This is why constant training for PAF pilots is so essential.

Every individual pilot must be on top of his game, which should be on top of adversary's game. In the Vietnam war the USN found out that if the fighter pilots can somehow survive first few air battles, their chances of survival increased by a significant margin and that is how their Top Gun school came in to being to provide those preliminary yet very essential air battles in a safe and learning environment before being sent to the real war.

I know PAF pilots do a lot of training, but in order to come on top of an enemy that is 5 times bigger in size, has access to more and better equipment, is always looking for opportunities to disrupt the peace. We should provide better equipment and increased and enhanced training to our pilots.

Sadly sometimes one ends up peeing on his own slippers.
There's an old saying, ''Sweat saves blood, Blood saves lives''....alas isn't the whole purpose of these exercises that you learn from your mistakes, hone your skills, polish your tactics so when you go into battle, you are on top of your game.

 

[Vapour]

A thought just crossed my mind....

Its not only PAF which does things like this in peacetime exercises against foreign countries.....Army does the same (and i am sure PN as well, though i have no data on that)

I had the experience of operating "against" an Egyptian Commando Battalion....results were just like PAF F-6s against F-15s.....

....then, has anyone tried artillery air burst shells against drones?

Speaking of commandos, if you could spare a post or two, either in this thread or I can create a new one if off-topic, on LOC actions by Pak army and specifically tactical cross-border raids by SFs in recent years and in particular after Feb 27th 2019, I would be most grateful. Currently, online, the entire narrative is controlled by the Indians, be it their fake news outlets, gargantuan SM presence and even online forums - all on how much they're targetting "launchpads" and how well their Paras are doing aside from the one incident this April. Feel like any counter-narrative would be much appreciated, of course only asking for non-classified details that can be mentioned here.