Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

[Wholegrain]

What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well.

And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian, praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly.

Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory".

Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of 皇協軍, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as 陳翰章, 佟麟閣, 吳克仁, 關向應, 唐聚五, 趙承金 etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [東北民眾自衛軍]?

That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact. Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '大西北' and the other lands.

The Ming never praised the Spanish for massacring anyone.Also the Ming defeated the Portuguese in 1521 and 1522 at Tamao and the Dutch in the 1620s in the Pescadores. The Ming did not loose Yuan territory because they never owned it. The Ming took China back by force from the Yuan to reconquer inner Mongolia and Primorsky Krai and sacked the Yuan capital as far north as Karakorum.

 

[FlowerSummer]

The Qing Dynasty has freed those 賤戶 who have been killing by the Ming Dynasty.
Restored ancient Chinese knowledge by 輯佚學. (明人好刻古書而古書&#20129
Taken back lots of land and defeated Mongolia and 準噶爾.

If there wasn't Qing Dynasty, China would have become a "Later Yuan" created by 準噶爾 or a second India.

And yet they have serfs(or slaves?) within their eight banners.
And yet they dont even know what is exploding arrows.
And yet they lost their own ancestors land.

If there wasn't manchu Qing Dynasty, China would not have a hairstyle called "pigtail".

Tell you what? Not just the Han Chinese were force to shave a pigtail, all minorities previously under Ming China rule were force to shave a pigtail, talk about cultural genocide.

 

[Snomannen]

What kind of logic is this? Oh I get it, internet keybord warriors logic, whereby a country "greatnest" and "power" are evaluated solely based on how many land they conquered or how many battles and wars they won or even how many wealth they amass in their treasury...hah!

For me, those are only part of the aspect I put into evaluation, there is also many other aspect, especially how they react when they face a national crisis like foreign invasion, what they do after they were defeated in battles or wars, or even after being overthrown.

Take your "Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian" for example, the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for me, it is how they react to this crisis. Tell me, did the Ming emperos bend their knees and beg the mongolian to spare their lives, with the promise of land and wealth? Did the Ming imperial court bribe the mongolians with "some" money and land just to get back their precious emperors? Or even they are so scare of the mongolians that they flee from the capital? Or did they just ignored the mongolians threat to kill the emperors and instead let someone else to rise to the emperor throne and thus the Ming china court administration continued as usual?

No one claims chinese histories is beautiful, please dont be a idiot. In fact China had lost countless of battles and wars in the past 5000 years, and some although won, but pay a brutal price. But hey, I did not evaluate history according to these only, and classified chinese dynasty based solely on military prowes or territory size or how many gold they have, just exactly like those stupid kids that only know to play computer RTS games.

And oh before you mention how bad Ming was again, I love Ming, not because she is the strongest or even the best dynasty, but the spirit of the Ming China imperial court when facing external threat. Hell I personally grade all chinese government starting from mongol Yuan till now, yes now, as sub par.

That reminds me manchu Qing was even more short lived than Ming China, this is a fact. Manchu Qing maybe large, but they die fast.

First of all, nobody has ever said such thing like [a country is great or not is evaluated solely based on how many land they conquered]. Making yourself a 稻草人 and punch it is not a good idea. Who is really the owner of the "internet keybord warriors logic" now. Also even evaluate the 2 dynasties with $$ and territory only, Qing is still better than Ming.

Not a big deal for YOU you say. Who do you think you are, emperor of China? And yes they did 'spend' some money to get back their emperor. Also they did fight back the Mongolian that time. Well, speaking of bending knees and begging. The Emperor of Ming did security manage to commit peace contract to Manchurian, but the action was discovered and the emperor even blamed his envoy and killed him. The emperor even try to escape from the capital by dressing up but was recognized and sent back to his home. Besides, even though there was a serious issue of the Qing invasion, the southern Ming armies never hesitated commit massacres to their own people.
Also why didn't Ming sign that much contract as Qing did, because "contract" is not that popular back in those day. Ming didn't "sell" its land, they just "gave" them away. Best Dynasty you say, the spirit you say.

The Ming never praised the Spanish for massacring anyone.Also the Ming defeated the Portuguese in 1521 and 1522 at Tamao and the Dutch in the 1620s in the Pescadores. The Ming did not loose Yuan territory because they never owned it. The Ming took China back by force from the Yuan to reconquer inner Mongolia and Primorsky Krai and sacked the Yuan capital as far north as Karakorum.

Yes they did.
The Ming emperor even called those who killed by those Spanish 賤戶 and 無賴.
It was all recorded in 明史.

 

[Wholegrain]

First of all, nobody has ever said such thing like [a country is great or not is evaluated solely based on how many land they conquered]. Making yourself a 稻草人 and punch it is not a good idea. Who is really the owner of the "internet keybord warriors logic" now. Also even evaluate the 2 dynasties with $$ and territory only, Qing is still better than Ming.

Not a big deal for YOU you say. Who do you think you are, emperor of China? And yes they did 'spend' some money to get back their emperor. Also they did fight back the Mongolian that time. Well, speaking of bending knees and begging. The Emperor of Ming did security manage to commit peace contract to Manchurian, but the action was discovered and the emperor even blamed his envoy and killed him. The emperor even try to escape from the capital by dressing up but was recognized and sent back to his home. Besides, even though there was a serious issue of the Qing invasion, the southern Ming armies never hesitated commit massacres to their own people.
Also why didn't Ming sign that much contract as Qing did, because "contract" is not that popular back in those day. Ming didn't "sell" its land, they just "gave" them away. Best Dynasty you say, the spirit you say.



Yes they did.
The Ming emperor even called those who killed by those Spanish 賤戶 and 無賴.
It was all recorded in 明史.

Did you know what the Qing said about the 1740 massacre of Chinese by the Dutch in Batavia?

 

[Snomannen]

And yet they have serfs(or slaves?) within their eight banners.
And yet they dont even know what is exploding arrows.
And yet they lost their own ancestors land.

If there wasn't manchu Qing Dynasty, China would not have a hairstyle called "pigtail".

Tell you what? Not just the Han Chinese were force to shave a pigtail, all minorities previously under Ming China rule were force to shave a pigtail, talk about cultural genocide.

What if I told you 包衣 is not as same as slave and A 包衣 can even have a better job or a higher title than his master.
What if I told you the equipment rate of firearms in Qing army is higher than Ming's.
Did they?

Firstly, not all minorities had to follow the hairstyle, such as Tibetan.
Secondly, if changing hairstyle means 'cultural genocide', then such culture is too low-class and has to be eliminated.
Thirdly, according to my 家譜, my ancestors were from the 商 Dynasty. 商 people were forced to wear 包子頭 and "YY Clothing" as 周 people did. Cultural genocide you say.

Did you know what the Qing said about the 1740 massacre of Chinese by the Dutch in Batavia?

Almost the same thing. Of course I know the history.

 

[FlowerSummer]

First of all, nobody has ever said such thing like [a country is great or not is evaluated solely based on how many land they conquered]. Making yourself a 稻草人 and punch it is not a good idea. Who is really the owner of the "internet keybord warriors logic" now. Also even evaluate the 2 dynasties with $$ and territory only, Qing is still better than Ming.

Not a big deal for YOU you say. Who do you think you are, emperor of China? And yes they did 'spend' some money to get back their emperor. Also they did fight back the Mongolian that time. Well, speaking of bending knees and begging. The Emperor of Ming did security manage to commit peace contract to Manchurian, but the action was discovered and the emperor even blamed his envoy and killed him. The emperor even try to escape from the capital by dressing up but was recognized and sent back to his home. Besides, even though there was a serious issue of the Qing invasion, the southern Ming armies never hesitated commit massacres to their own people.
Also why didn't Ming sign that much contract as Qing did, because "contract" is not that popular back in those day. Ming didn't "sell" its land, they just "gave" them away. Best Dynasty you say, the spirit you say.

You are the one who is punching a strawman here, I never claim Ming China as the best, its the spirit of the Ming China imperial court against external threat that I like. And no they didnt spend some money to get back their emperor, because that guy is no longer an emperor. Again, evaluate the chinese dynasties with $$ and territory only, are what kids that love to play RTS games often do, since they are so idiot that they can only evaluate history based solely on something that can "measure".

Before you clearly mention whose emperor of Ming that try to "gave" land out, so that I and OP can verify the sources, I will tell you, what the Emperor decide only will not represent the whole China! This is the reason why I love Ming China, because they can just ignored the captured emperor and instead support another guy as emperor immediately. This is the true loyalty "忠" describe in Confucianism "people is the most important, follow by country, and the last is the leader(in this case the emperor)" “民为贵，社稷次之，君为轻”。 If the imperial court freak themselves up, insisting to get back their captured emperor back as 1st priority, claiming it to be "loyal", then I will be displeased.

Who do I think I am? I am a Chinese, one of the 1.3 billion Chinese that owns China, so why no big deal just to voice out my opinion?

I just give you one simple example of how I view the late manchu Qing in different "if"--
If puyi and his die hard followers commit suicide after being overthrown, then good bye manchu Qing.
If puyi and his die hard followers spend rest of their lifetime as ordinary, well behave civilians, then too bad manchu Qing.
If puyi and his die hard followers cant let go their power, and team up with japanese to invade china, just to grab back the emperor throne, then GO FVCK YOURSELF YOU MONGRELS!!!

Guess which is the true fact of history?
PS. Its those followers of his, those Han traitors, that I hate the most.

 

[FlowerSummer]

What if I told you 包衣 is not as same as slave and A 包衣 can even have a better job or a higher title than his master.
What if I told you the equipment rate of firearms in Qing army is higher than Ming's.
Did they?

Firstly, not all minorities had to follow the hairstyle, such as Tibetan.
Secondly, if changing hairstyle means 'cultural genocide', then such culture is too low-class and has to be eliminated.
Thirdly, according to my 家譜, my ancestors were from the 商 Dynasty. 商 people were forced to wear 包子頭 and "YY Clothing" as 周 people did. Cultural genocide you say.

I told you already, all minorities previously under Ming China rule were force to shave a pigtail. Try guess why

If only its just changing hairstyle... but sadly its THE FVCKING MANCHUS FORCE EVERY PEOPLE ONCE RULED BY MING CHINA TO CHANGE IN TO THAT PIGTAIL HAIRSTYLE. THOSE DISOBEY WERE EXECUTED WITHOUT TRIAL, NO EXCEPTION ALLOWED, IS CULTURAL GENOCIDE.

You know what, my ancestral records points my family roots up to Yan Emperor 炎帝, and we have proto-hanfu(交领，右&#34941 records in it. Hanfu style was consolidated over the years during Shang, and by Zhou it was standardize. Where is your Shang ancestors lived? There are tons of barbarian tribes join Zhou over the years, Chu and Qin are the prime examples of these barbarian states try so hard just to be recognized by the Zhou TianZi as his vassals and as a legitimate HuaXia feudal lords.

 

[Snomannen]

You are the one who is punching a strawman here, I never claim Ming China as the best, its the spirit of the Ming China imperial court against external threat that I like. And no they didnt spend some money to get back their emperor, because that guy is no longer an emperor. Again, evaluate the chinese dynasties with $$ and territory only, are what kids that love to play RTS games often do, since they are so idiot that they can only evaluate history based solely on something that can "measure".

Before you clearly mention whose emperor of Ming that try to "gave" land out, so that I and OP can verify the sources, I will tell you, what the Emperor decide only will not represent the whole China! This is the reason why I love Ming China, because they can just ignored the captured emperor and instead support another guy as emperor immediately. This is the true loyalty "忠" describe in Confucianism "people is the most important, follow by country, and the last is the leader(in this case the emperor)" “民为贵，社稷次之，君为轻”。 If the imperial court freak themselves up, insisting to get back their captured emperor back as 1st priority, claiming it to be "loyal", then I will be displeased.

Who do I think I am? I am a Chinese, one of the 1.3 billion Chinese that owns China, so why no big deal just to voice out my opinion?

I just give you one simple example of how I view the late manchu Qing in different "if"--
If puyi and his die hard followers commit suicide after being overthrown, then good bye manchu Qing.
If puyi and his die hard followers spend rest of their lifetime as ordinary, well behave civilians, then too bad manchu Qing.
If puyi and his die hard followers cant let go their power, and team up with japanese to invade china, just to grab back the emperor throne, then GO FVCK YOURSELF YOU MONGRELS!!!

Guess which is the true fact of history?
PS. Its those followers of his, those Han traitors, that I hate the most.

I can see that someone not only like to punch his strawman, but also like to 對號入座. Who ever said that you claim Ming as the best. Also somebody's logic is really hurting my head. I have mentioned before, I am mentioning it again: One picks up the factors of land and $$ as a comparison of two dynasties doesn't mean that he only cares about these factors nor he think these factors are the only way to judge and criticize the history
"I think this car is better, because it is big enough and more comfortable and effective than the other one."
"You think you are playing RTS games??? You can't evaluate them with only blah blah blah..."
"Daheck is RTS games?"
The fact that you cannot deny is:
Ming Dynasty's territory in its heyday is still much smaller than the dying Qing.
The foreign trade turnover of Qing is 10 times more than Ming.

True loyalty you say, well that was interesting. Sending hundreds thousand of its people to battle for no good reason and with no good planning, let them get killed and let those Mongolian crushed to the capital city. People were indeed '貴', the Ming government even sent its troops to catch/kill beggars 流民 and 賤戶 since they were nothing but waste to them. Not to mention the southern Ming armies love to kill their own citizens for resources and $$. They even slandered those innocents they have killed as thief in order to get pay from their leaders.

I wonder how could you not know that, you love Ming that much don't you.
The first emperor gave away the territory of the north part of Korean Peninsula, which was China's territory since Han Dynasty, to Korean. Also what happened to Tibet, West-North territory, Yunnan and the others. Just take a look of [明史] and Korean [李朝寶錄].

I was judging your words [the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for ME]. How could you think that if you think it was a big deal to YOU or not is a big deal to this topic and to the history, Mr.Emperor?


Funny how people love to judge Qing Dynasty by evaluating that guy who is no longer an emperor of Qing. Puyi was a kid when the Empire is overthrown. You ask a kid to kill himself?
Most of the members of royal family were good behaved, they have been working hard to protect their country from foreigners such as Japanese. Puyi was not supported by them.
Save your aggressive language to elsewhere, none of the members in this forum support Puyi (except for that Vietnamese guy gave you a like).

Oh yes I do hate Han traitors too~ especially those clothing worshiper who give away our history and support the nonsense (indirectly) from Dala Lama, Rebiya Kadeer, President Lee and other anti-China powers~

 

[Snomannen]

I told you already, all minorities previously under Ming China rule were force to shave a pigtail. Try guess why

If only its just changing hairstyle... but sadly its THE FVCKING MANCHUS FORCE EVERY PEOPLE ONCE RULED BY MING CHINA TO CHANGE IN TO THAT PIGTAIL HAIRSTYLE. THOSE DISOBEY WERE EXECUTED WITHOUT TRIAL, NO EXCEPTION ALLOWED, IS CULTURAL GENOCIDE.

You know what, my ancestral records points my family roots up to Yan Emperor 炎帝, and we have proto-hanfu(交领，右&#34941 records in it. Hanfu style was consolidated over the years during Shang, and by Zhou it was standardize. Where is your Shang ancestors lived? There are tons of barbarian tribes join Zhou over the years, Chu and Qin are the prime examples of these barbarian states try so hard just to be recognized by the Zhou TianZi as his vassals and as a legitimate HuaXia feudal lords.

I though Ming China used to rule Tibet and part of the West-North~?
Why? Why 周人 had to force 商人 to wear their hairstyle, the reason is so obvious isn't it.
The action of changing Han people's (and the others) was a bad decision and it was indeed an atrocity, but a cultural genocide? Come on, as I have mentioned, if the hairstyle was changed means cultural genocide to Chinese culture in your opinion, then such culture is so inferior and have the right to be destroyed.
By the way, there were several southern minorities of China were massacred during the dynasty before Qing. Their languages were eliminated and the were forced to follow the so-called "Han-fu" style. Some of them even met the coincidence of genocide. Now that is really cultural genocide.

I can't even believe all the Shang story from my 家譜 (they say 90% of the 家譜 family history book before Ming Dynasty are not to be trusted), how could yours roots up to Yan Emperor 炎帝.
The fact is that you are completely wrong with the knowledge of the so-called Hanfu. The dynasty of 三皇五帝 was not even an origin of 'Hanfu', 'hanfu' was originally from 周 and 周 was barbarian to 商 in no doubt. 商人尚白窄袖以及崇尚絢麗的色彩和花紋, 無分所謂左右衽, 髮型為髡髮蓄辮 (pigtail). Kuanpao, big sleeves and Chui Ji were from 周 people~

Oh and about my family~
According to the family tree~ They were spread throughout the 神州 after the 商 was conquered by 周 and were mainly living in 中山河范陽 during Qin and Han Dynasty.

 

[FlowerSummer]

I can see that someone not only like to punch his strawman, but also like to 對號入座. Who ever said that you claim Ming as the best. Also somebody's logic is really hurting my head. I have mentioned before, I am mentioning it again: One picks up the factors of land and $$ as a comparison of two dynasties doesn't mean that he only cares about these factors nor he think these factors are the only way to judge and criticize the history
"I think this car is better, because it is big enough and more comfortable and effective than the other one."
"You think you are playing RTS games??? You can't evaluate them with only blah blah blah..."
"Daheck is RTS games?"
The fact that you cannot deny is:
Ming Dynasty's territory in its heyday is still much smaller than the dying Qing.
The foreign trade turnover of Qing is 10 times more than Ming.

True loyalty you say, well that was interesting. Sending hundreds thousand of its people to battle for no good reason and with no good planning, let them get killed and let those Mongolian crushed to the capital city. People were indeed '貴', the Ming government even sent its troops to catch/kill beggars 流民 and 賤戶 since they were nothing but waste to them. Not to mention the southern Ming armies love to kill their own citizens for resources and $$. They even slandered those innocents they have killed as thief in order to get pay from their leaders.

I wonder how could you not know that, you love Ming that much don't you.
The first emperor gave away the territory of the north part of Korean Peninsula, which was China's territory since Han Dynasty, to Korean. Also what happened to Tibet, West-North territory, Yunnan and the others. Just take a look of [明史] and Korean [李朝寶錄].

I was judging your words [the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for ME]. How could you think that if you think it was a big deal to YOU or not is a big deal to this topic and to the history, Mr.Emperor?


Funny how people love to judge Qing Dynasty by evaluating that guy who is no longer an emperor of Qing. Puyi was a kid when the Empire is overthrown. You ask a kid to kill himself?
Most of the members of royal family were good behaved, they have been working hard to protect their country from foreigners such as Japanese. Puyi was not supported by them.
Save your aggressive language to elsewhere, none of the members in this forum support Puyi (except for that Vietnamese guy gave you a like).

Oh yes I do hate Han traitors too~ especially those clothing worshiper who give away our history and support the nonsense (indirectly) from Dala Lama, Rebiya Kadeer, President Lee and other anti-China powers~

"Best Dynasty you say" is what you say in previous post...

So smaller=worthless hmm? Less trade= worthless hmm? No wonder many chinese kids always wonder why "large" manchu Qing lost to tiny Japan, because its number comparison game logic right?

"Sending hundreds thousand of its people to battle for no good reason and with no good planning, let them get killed and let those foreigners crushed to the capital city." This is what happened to manchu Qing since Opium war, non-stop epic fail. And dont let me start mention mordern chinese "glorious" battle tale.

Ming China gave away land to others? I will told you again, they never inherit any land from anybody, because the land inheritance right among Han Chinese dynasty was broken during mongol Yuan, thats is one of the main reason I rank all government starting from mongol Yuan as subpar.

Source is Korean and a history book heavily distort by manchu Qing? Acording to Korean, Your whole Family are KOREAN!

I judge that piece of fact solely based on how the government and people of thet history period view the emperor, as that is part of the most important data to show the evolution of absolute monarchy to either constitutional monarchy or constitutional republic.

Which word I said I want that brain dead kid to die? dont punch the strawman here please. In my list of options I do give him a chance to live a normal life you know, too bad he doesnt, so FVCK MONGRELS!
Of course that guy is no longer an emperor, but he WANTS IT BACK REGARDLESS OF THE PEOPLE WILLINGESS. If that Captured Ming China emperor come back to China and lead an army to get back his throne, I will also say go die you a$$hole!

So what if a vietnamese guy gave me thanks? Its not me who command him to give me thanks, so please dont be an idiot and talk nonsense.

HAHAHA!!! Tell you what? Among those "clothing worshiper" you mention, they are actually consist many minorities! Thats why I told you go check out HanFu tieba, there are many minorities there you know? I personally know a manchu girl who participate HanFu activity, and one of my maternal relative who is a zhuang actually being influence by me and start "worshipping Hanfu".

 

[FlowerSummer]

I though Ming China used to rule Tibet and part of the West-North~?
Why? Why 周人 had to force 商人 to wear their hairstyle, the reason is so obvious isn't it.
The action of changing Han people's (and the others) was a bad decision and it was indeed an atrocity, but a cultural genocide? Come on, as I have mentioned, if the hairstyle was changed means cultural genocide to Chinese culture in your opinion, then such culture is so inferior and have the right to be destroyed.
By the way, there were several southern minorities of China were massacred during the dynasty before Qing. Their languages were eliminated and the were forced to follow the so-called "Han-fu" style. Some of them even met the coincidence of genocide. Now that is really cultural genocide.

I can't even believe all the Shang story from my 家譜 (they say 90% of the 家譜 family history book before Ming Dynasty are not to be trusted), how could yours roots up to Yan Emperor 炎帝.
The fact is that you are completely wrong with the knowledge of the so-called Hanfu. The dynasty of 三皇五帝 was not even an origin of 'Hanfu', 'hanfu' was originally from 周 and 周 was barbarian to 商 in no doubt. 商人尚白窄袖以及崇尚絢麗的色彩和花紋, 無分所謂左右衽, 髮型為髡髮蓄辮 (pigtail). Kuanpao, big sleeves and Chui Ji were from 周 people~

Oh and about my family~
According to the family tree~ They were spread throughout the 神州 after the 商 was conquered by 周 and were mainly living in 中山河范陽 during Qin and Han Dynasty.

Tell me more about Shang hairstyle, I am curious, maybe you can revive it cant you?
Aparently you are a cultural darwinism preacher. Sorry mate I think we are completely different in the view of culture, I think we should agree to disagree, and I hope you wont get in the way of people that were trying hard to revive a near extinct traditional culture. Of course we wont force you to wear HanFu, we are not barbarians manchu Qing, you can still wear what you want.

Come on, I told you already, force change=/=voluntary change, guess which is cultural genocide? Also genocide=/=cultural genocide.
Tell me which "southern minorities" that you mention, but I do know a lot of minorities in the past WISH TO wear HanFu to the point of OBSESSION, prime examples are the minorities during 五胡乱华 period.

There are actually more aspect to pinpoint your ancestry other than ancestral records, such as your ancestor hometown location, your surname etc. My confidence on my root are the combine of all these aspects.
Oh fun fact of the day, my family earliest ancestral record was originally a HanFu wore by one of my ancestor. After he died the other use the deceased cloths as a record medium, and that was a period around Shang, thats how I know my roots and HanFu roots.

You can curse the Zhou all you want, but that wont do any good to your ancestor lost culture. Why dont you learn from us, and start wear your ancestor cloths and shave a pigtail, and maintain these clothing and hairstyle in your everyday life? We traditonal culture restorer welcome it very much, because we too are doing the same. Our goal is to bring back lost culture to the surface of the Earth again.

 

[Kolaps]

What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well.

And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian, praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly.

Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory".

Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of 皇協軍, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as 陳翰章, 佟麟閣, 吳克仁, 關向應, 唐聚五, 趙承金 etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [東北民眾自衛軍]?

That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact. Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '大西北' and the other lands.

That kind of mentality that actually ruined China into a nation of garbage.

We heard it all the time, for the last 100 years. In 1989, Beijing students even want to sold out entire China to foreigners. Remember noble peace prize winner, Liu Xiaobo! It's not just him alone, a lot of Chinese like him.

Under the state propaganda to destroy Chinese civilization reputation, a small group of Han Chinese rebelled against it, it's something that we should appreciated.

Tibetan people is more proud to Tibetan culture than Han Chinese to their own. Even Japanese people is more proud to the original Chinese culture, than the so called original-owner, Han Chinese. This is the fact.


I think, win or lose, it just a matter of preparation. A well prepared small kingdom or even a peasant rebel, can defeat unprepared empire.

But overall, Chinese civilization is among world best and greatest.

The Qing Dynasty has freed those 賤戶 who have been killing by the Ming Dynasty.
Restored ancient Chinese knowledge by 輯佚學. (明人好刻古書而古書&#20129
Taken back lots of land and defeated Mongolia and 準噶爾.

If there wasn't Qing Dynasty, China would have become a "Later Yuan" created by 準噶爾 or a second India.

It's true that Qing had a huge contribution to make China today.

I can say, we gained and lost a lot of things too.

 

[asad71]

India flooded the Andaman islands with migrants from India and swamped the native negritos. Japan also flooded Hokkaido with Japanese migrants and did not even recognize the native Ainu as indigeneous until recently.

India is doing virtually nothing to stop the negritos from going extinct. They even treated them like zoo animals and had "sexual relations" aka raped their women.

Jarawa's survival threatened by habitat loss, sexual exploitation | News | Human rights

'Human safari' fears as Andaman Islands road reopens - Telegraph

Human safaris may be banned, but still tourists flock to Andaman Islands | World news | The Observer

This news was all over the British media (the guardian and telegraph) but we didn't hear anything from the American media nor any condemnation of India from western governments.

The Andaman islands were never under the control of an Indian empire. The British took it over and passed it on to India.

1.Even at Partition 1947, Pakistan's founding leaders had neglected the eastern wing. Otherwise Arakan, Andaman-Nicoabr and Tripura would have been ours.

2. Sukarno used to say that A-P should be part of Indonesia or (E) Pakistan. There was no justification in attaching this to India.

 

[Ayush]

1.Even at Partition 1947, Pakistan's founding leaders had neglected the eastern wing. Otherwise Arakan, Andaman-Nicoabr and Tripura would have been ours.

2. Sukarno used to say that A-P should be part of Indonesia or (E) Pakistan. There was no justification in attaching this to India.

who sukarno??

 

[chhota bheem]

1.Even at Partition 1947, Pakistan's founding leaders had neglected the eastern wing. Otherwise Arakan, Andaman-Nicoabr and Tripura would have been ours.

2. Sukarno used to say that A-P should be part of Indonesia or (E) Pakistan. There was no justification in attaching this to India.

Is this thread about India.