Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

[Kolaps]

Ming Dynasty, one of the worst dynasties of China, was a curse of Chinese people,

Ming is not that worst.

At the early and middle of Ming, their achievement exceeded previous dynasty. Their economy was the largest and their military was the strongest. Only at the late period, they became a shame.

But restored by Manchu and lead into a new height.

 

[Kolaps]

And yet Manchu Qing still cant defend their own turf from the British. On the other hand Ming China chase out the Dutch and claim Taiwan, and that was during their weakest period.

Oh, of course they pretty much use up most of their treasury made out of the "trade" you mention to bribe and beg foreigners to spare their lives and let them remain on power

That is not true if Qing can't defend against British. They just easily give up because of mismanagement.

We can blame anything about late Qing to Empress Dowager Cixi. I don't know if this is a bad thing or good thing, without her, we probably still living under Manchu ruler as Manchu able to reconsolidating their power again into a modern state.

 

[Kolaps]

Hey @Hu Songshan : Bro can't some of the Hui Muslims talk to the Uighurs & rationally talk to them how Islam doesn't allow terrorism as a means of getting one's voice heard ?

I was reading up on Hu Songshan (your namesake) & he sounds like a very progressive Muslim Intellectual....we, in Pakistan, sure as hell could use someone like him !

I don't think they can. Uighurs problem is probably not because of Uighurs.

They may be need to convince USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups.

 

[Kolaps]

If a person getting beaten up is considered "genocide", I can point out many more instances of genocide in your country. However horrible someone getting beaten is, in your country beatings have been administered many times by both civilians and police. The boy is not dead or killed, but those people, like certain police in your country are mentally sick for beating up a child.

That incident also did not happen inside Xinjiang. For several decades, networks of criminals took Uyghur kids from Xinjiang to major cities on China's eastern coast and used them to pickpocket and steal from people in the streets. This kids was probably taken by a criminal gang to an eastern city and the people there assumed he was one of the pickpockets. This doesn't justify beating him up and making him cry but I assume whoever posted the video is trying to make it seem as though Han people are flooding into Uyghur cities and start beating up their kids which is false.

Islamist propaganda channel full of lie and slander.

Like they are not fear sin for doing it.

Heart lightly do terrorist attack and provoking war everywhere, if like crippling and murdering people as something normal, like eating and breathing.

They make Islam reputation so bad.

 

[cnleio]

I don't think they can. Uighurs problem is probably not because of Uighurs.

They may be need to convince USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups.

Does USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups willing to mediate the Chechnya problem in Russia ? About Uighurs in China, i personally suggest 3rd country keep outside or push China to ur opponent.

 

[Kolaps]

Does USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups willing to mediate the Chechnya problem in Russia ? About Uighurs in China, i personally suggest 3rd country keep outside or push China to ur opponent.

The main problem is probably the independent Islamist groups.

They are independent, separated group from one to another, but have a common goal to Islamize the whole world (and serving their own interest too).

You can convince some of these groups, but there are always another and newly established one, looking for trouble again. They even bite each other too. Even fellow Muslims countries. Totally chaos!

 

[Wholegrain]

@KirovAirship

Do not fall into the trap of attacking the Ming because some racist trolls attack the Qing. The Ming did not receive its territories from the Yuan, they didn't hand anything to the Ming on a plate. It conquered the entire inner mongolia region and it conquered Manchuria including modern day Primorsky Krai. The Jurchen chieftains submitted to the Ming.

Nurhaci and his family were vassals to the Ming. Their tribe obeyed the orders of the Ming general stationed in the area where the jianzhou jurchens lived. Nurhaci rebelled because his father and grandfather were accidently killed by the Ming when they were loyal vassals.

The Ming also defeated the Portuguese at Tamao in 1521 and 1522 and they defeated the Dutch in the Pescadores in the 1620s.

A member of the Ming Impial family became a Marquis during the Qing.

You should not just look out for the racists like Sayina. People like Okemos are spreading serious BS about minorities in China around this forum. Okemos is claiming Islamic schools in China is a new thing. This jack*** is lying, there have been Islamic schools called "Jingtang Jiaoyu" and plenty of mosques all over major Chinese cities since the Ming dynasty.

He then took the entire population of Xinjiang, which is 21 million (including around 10 million Han in Dzungharia) and claimed that the entire population were Muslims to misrepresent population growth of Muslims as expanding rapidly.

He then blames Hui for murdering millions of Han in dungan revolt, was Zhang Xianzhong a Hui? Were the Nian and Taiping rebellions done by Hui? Were the Japanese Hui? He is a serial, ticked off liar.

Hui have served in the Ming dynasty under Mi Layin and they fought against the Qing to restore the Ming, then there were Hui who fought for the Qing against Hui rebels like in 1781 loyal Sunni and Khufiyya Sufi Muslims fought against the Jahriyya Sufi cult, loyal Hui helped the Qing crush the rebel Hui in the Dungan revolt, Hui like Cui Wei and Hau Decai helped the Qing reconquer Xinjiang, Hui crushed another rebellion in 1895, the General Zuo Baogui who fought against Japan in Korea at Pyongyang was a Hui, Hui fought in the Boxer Rebellion against the Eight Nation alliance, and they fought japan in ww2.

The Ming dynasty set up an entire Hui Astronomy Bureau which employed Hui who used Islamic astronomy from Persia to determine the correct date for the calender. Okemos conveniently forgets all of these facts.

 

[Kolaps]

Ming military at the early and middle period was very very strong.

Ming develop military capability to fight Mongols cavalry easily.

As gunpowder was invented in China, so most of the world gunpowder innovations at the time were made by Ming. As most of Ming military were composed by gunpowder units. From the multi shape and size of canons, handguns, grenade, mines, exploding arrows, etc.


The reason why Chinese modern historian wrote that Ming and Qing were shamefully weak...it's because they want you to accept foreign democracy and communism. First, they need to break your "stupid" confidence on "shameful" Chinese civilization. <-- they said @sshole civilization full of funny superstitious! (we heard it all the time! even in Taiwan)

Praising and accepting democracy and communism, you guys are the real traitors!!!

 

[FlowerSummer]

The UK was a global Empire, the Qing Dynasty was defeated by one of the greatest countries in the world. Taiwan was claimed by Koxinga, not the Ming dynasty. Besides the Dutch was not even a regular army, they were 'security'. They were defeated because their lack of manpower and used up all the resource in their castle.

Also what if I told you that the Ming navy even asked Portuguese citizens in Macau to deal with those pirates they can't handle with -and those Portuguese had won several wars and scared those pirates away.

Oh, so Japan also considered as one of the greatest countries in the world even before WW1? The one only start meiji restoration no more than half century.

Also what if I told you that the Manchu Qing even beg Russians to "mediate" with those "barbarians" they can't handle with, --of course our generous Manchu Qing will give "some" land and silver to them as gratitude and apology.

Come on, we all know Taiwan is not the only victory Ming China score against the Europeans. And dont let me start how the Manchukuo Chieftain let himself become Japanese puppet, even the manchu royal family female members were sent to Japan to be train as agents by Japanese to be used against China.

And nope, the Ming China did not succeed any land from the Mongol Yuan, they reconquer and reclaim the land from the Mongol Yuan.

 

[FlowerSummer]

That is not true if Qing can't defend against British. They just easily give up because of mismanagement.

We can blame anything about late Qing to Empress Dowager Cixi. I don't know if this is a bad thing or good thing, without her, we probably still living under Manchu ruler as Manchu able to reconsolidating their power again into a modern state.

That is the true and the real reason why Chinese was humilated by the foreigners during the Manchu Qing, because they give up even before try hard. We can lose battles or even wars, but that was just our body was defeated. But if we give up, or worse, give up before try hard, then it was our spirit that was being defeated. Our body maybe enslaved after we lose wars, but we cannot allowed our mind and body be enslaved.

We can blame everything to old hag cixi all we want, but that does not change the fact Manchu Qing is already flawed beyond imagination, and broken beyond repair.

 

[FlowerSummer]

And the stupid ROC and PRC government are pointing Cheongsam as Han Chinese official traditional cloth.

Han Chinese today became barbarian after hundreds years under foreigners: Manchu, Christian KMT and Communist CCP. This is really sad.

I think we should restore China as it should be. Seeing how ugly, wrong and inappropriate the rebuilt ancient buildings in mainland, I can see that our standard became so low and cheap. Very embarrassing!

Our high standard, elegant and perfection culture already gone.

Ming military at the early and middle period was very very strong.

Ming develop military capability to fight Mongols cavalry easily.

As gunpowder was invented in China, so most of the world gunpowder innovations at the time were made by Ming. As most of Ming military were composed by gunpowder units. From the multi shape and size of canons, handguns, grenade, mines, exploding arrows, etc.


The reason why Chinese modern historian wrote that Ming and Qing were shamefully weak...it's because they want you to accept foreign democracy and communism. First, they need to break your "stupid" confidence on "shameful" Chinese civilization. <-- they said a$$hole civilization full of funny superstitious! (we heard it all the time! even in Taiwan)

Praising and accepting democracy and communism, you guys are the real traitors!!!

I completely agree with these. We chinese have fallen so low, so low until we have to distort and destroy our own traditional culture just so we can copy all these "advance ideas" from the foreigners.

We are so pathetic, to the point of create prejudice and discrimination, even persecution and distortion, in the name of revolution and liberation, towards our own traditonal culture that created by our ancestors for thousands of years since, just so that they can shoulder all the blame and sins of why China become so bad in the recent few centuries.

That we, the decendents of these great ancestors, may only be the only people in the world that can voluntarily self inflicted such prejudice and discrimination towards our own traditional culture, just so we can conveniently dump all the blame of our poor performance in recent few hundread years, onto the innocent arts and cultures that was created thousand years before, the very own culture that once led China towards golden age again and again in the past.

Really, we chinese are such a miraculous creature, that me as a fellow chinese, cant even understad.

 

[Snomannen]

Oh, so Japan also considered as one of the greatest countries in the world even before WW1? The one only start meiji restoration no more than half century.

Also what if I told you that the Manchu Qing even beg Russians to "mediate" with those "barbarians" they can't handle with, --of course our generous Manchu Qing will give "some" land and silver to them as gratitude and apology.

Come on, we all know Taiwan is not the only victory Ming China score against the Europeans. And dont let me start how the Manchukuo Chieftain let himself become Japanese puppet, even the manchu royal family female members were sent to Japan to be train as agents by Japanese to be used against China.

And nope, the Ming China did not succeed any land from the Mongol Yuan, they reconquer and reclaim the land from the Mongol Yuan.

What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well.

And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian, praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly.

Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory".

Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of &#30343;&#21332;&#36557;, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as &#38515;&#32752;&#31456;, &#20319;&#40607;&#38307;, &#21555;&#20811;&#20161;, &#38364;&#21521;&#25033;, &#21776;&#32858;&#20116;, &#36249;&#25215;&#37329; etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [&#26481;&#21271;&#27665;&#30526;&#33258;&#34907;&#36557;]?

That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact. Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '&#22823;&#35199;&#21271;' and the other lands.

 

[Snomannen]

@KirovAirship

Do not fall into the trap of attacking the Ming because some racist trolls attack the Qing. The Ming did not receive its territories from the Yuan, they didn't hand anything to the Ming on a plate. It conquered the entire inner mongolia region and it conquered Manchuria including modern day Primorsky Krai. The Jurchen chieftains submitted to the Ming.

Nurhaci and his family were vassals to the Ming. Their tribe obeyed the orders of the Ming general stationed in the area where the jianzhou jurchens lived. Nurhaci rebelled because his father and grandfather were accidently killed by the Ming when they were loyal vassals.

The Ming also defeated the Portuguese at Tamao in 1521 and 1522 and they defeated the Dutch in the Pescadores in the 1620s.

A member of the Ming Impial family became a Marquis during the Qing.

You should not just look out for the racists like Sayina. People like Okemos are spreading serious BS about minorities in China around this forum. Okemos is claiming Islamic schools in China is a new thing. This jack*** is lying, there have been Islamic schools called "Jingtang Jiaoyu" and plenty of mosques all over major Chinese cities since the Ming dynasty.

He then took the entire population of Xinjiang, which is 21 million (including around 10 million Han in Dzungharia) and claimed that the entire population were Muslims to misrepresent population growth of Muslims as expanding rapidly.

He then blames Hui for murdering millions of Han in dungan revolt, was Zhang Xianzhong a Hui? Were the Nian and Taiping rebellions done by Hui? Were the Japanese Hui? He is a serial, ticked off liar.

Hui have served in the Ming dynasty under Mi Layin and they fought against the Qing to restore the Ming, then there were Hui who fought for the Qing against Hui rebels like in 1781 loyal Sunni and Khufiyya Sufi Muslims fought against the Jahriyya Sufi cult, loyal Hui helped the Qing crush the rebel Hui in the Dungan revolt, Hui like Cui Wei and Hau Decai helped the Qing reconquer Xinjiang, Hui crushed another rebellion in 1895, the General Zuo Baogui who fought against Japan in Korea at Pyongyang was a Hui, Hui fought in the Boxer Rebellion against the Eight Nation alliance, and they fought japan in ww2.

The Ming dynasty set up an entire Hui Astronomy Bureau which employed Hui who used Islamic astronomy from Persia to determine the correct date for the calender. Okemos conveniently forgets all of these facts.

I am sick of those people who have been spreading rumors and lies since the internet became popular. These people are nothing but trouble. They worship ancient traditional clothing and the Ming Dynasty and spread their racist by attacking and blaming Qing Dynasty (their true target is Manchurian people and other minorities). They claim that "only Han represent China" and ignore the fact that China (and its history) belongs to the whole Chinese ethnics group. They even claim that Yuan and Qing were not China and gave our own history to out-landers such as Outer Mongolians.

They are the true friends of Dala Lama, Rebiya Kadeer, President Lee and other anti-China powers.

 

[Snomannen]

Ming is not that worst.

At the early and middle of Ming, their achievement exceeded previous dynasty. Their economy was the largest and their military was the strongest. Only at the late period, they became a shame.

But restored by Manchu and lead into a new height.

The Qing Dynasty has freed those &#36068;&#25142; who have been killing by the Ming Dynasty.
Restored ancient Chinese knowledge by &#36655;&#20314;&#23416;. (&#26126;&#20154;&#22909;&#21051;&#21476;&#26360;&#32780;&#21476;&#26360;&#20129
Taken back lots of land and defeated Mongolia and &#28310;&#22134;&#29246;.

If there wasn't Qing Dynasty, China would have become a "Later Yuan" created by &#28310;&#22134;&#29246; or a second India.

 

[FlowerSummer]

What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well.

And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian, praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly.

Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory".

Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of &#30343;&#21332;&#36557;, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as &#38515;&#32752;&#31456;, &#20319;&#40607;&#38307;, &#21555;&#20811;&#20161;, &#38364;&#21521;&#25033;, &#21776;&#32858;&#20116;, &#36249;&#25215;&#37329; etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [&#26481;&#21271;&#27665;&#30526;&#33258;&#34907;&#36557;]?

That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact. Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '&#22823;&#35199;&#21271;' and the other lands.

What kind of logic is this? Oh I get it, internet keybord warriors logic, whereby a country "greatnest" and "power" are evaluated solely based on how many land they conquered or how many battles and wars they won or even how many wealth they amass in their treasury...hah!

For me, those are only part of the aspect I put into evaluation, there is also many other aspect, especially how they react when they face a national crisis like foreign invasion, what they do after they were defeated in battles or wars, or even after being overthrown.

Take your "Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian" for example, the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for me, it is how they react to this crisis. Tell me, did the Ming emperos bend their knees and beg the mongolians to spare their lives, with the promise of land and wealth? Did the Ming imperial court bribe the mongolians with "some" money and land just to get back their precious emperors? Or even they are so scare of the mongolians that they flee from the capital? Or did they just ignored the mongolians threat to kill the emperors and instead let someone else to rise to the imperial throne and thus the Ming china court administration continued as usual?

No one claims chinese histories is beautiful, please dont be an idiot. In fact China had lost countless of battles and wars in the past 5000 years against foreigners, and some although won, but pay a brutal price. But hey, I did not evaluate history according to these only, and classified chinese dynasty based solely on military prowes or territory size or even how many gold they have in treasury, just exactly like those stupid kids that only know to play computer RTS games.

And oh before you mention how bad Ming was again, I tell you what, I love Ming, not because she is the strongest or even the best dynasty, but the spirit of the Ming China imperial court when facing external threat. Hell I personally grade all chinese government starting from mongol Yuan till now, yes now, as sub par.

That reminds me manchu Qing was even more short lived than Ming China, this is a fact. Manchu Qing maybe large, but they die fast.