Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

[ChineseTiger1986]

I have friends who have visited Xinjiang a number of times to Kashgher and other areas and i also had a friend at University who was a Uyghur. Both of them had similar accounts of religious suppression and heavy handed behavior by the Chinese authorities. We Pakistanis are friends with China and its people and we wish to see no instability in PRC,but the solution lies with Beijing to introduce reforms and give its citizens their due rights. Lets assume CIA is at play,which is a possibility by all means. Why even give them the space to operate when you can eradicate most of the militancy by reforms and introducing the same level of infrastructure development and job creation we saw in other parts of China?

Because some Uyghurs wanna conduct the separatism, but not all Muslims have problem with China since PRC never oppressed their religion, but stopping separatism is a different matter from oppresing the religion.

Chinese muslims celebrate Eid Al-Adha - YouTube

 

[Kompromat]

Nothing to do with religion. it is East Turkistan separatists

Separatists will lose only if you deal with what the narrative they sell to people to justify their existence. Most of them,would be jobless kids,disenchanted with Beijing, give them jobs, most of them will move away and look after their families and live their lives,those who wont can be fought and defeated.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I have friends who have visited Xinjiang a number of times to Kashgher and other areas and i also had a friend at University who was a Uyghur. Both of them had similar accounts of religious suppression and heavy handed behavior by the Chinese authorities. We Pakistanis are friends with China and its people and we wish to see no instability in PRC,but the solution lies with Beijing to introduce reforms and give its citizens their due rights. Lets assume CIA is at play,which is a possibility by all means. Why even give them the space to operate when you can eradicate most of the militancy by reforms and introducing the same level of infrastructure development and job creation we saw in other parts of China?

Your solution, to give them more rights in response to terrorist attacks, has that worked in Pakistan?

That is just giving positive reinforcement and rewards, to extremism and terrorism, to make it the most effective method to get more rights.

From what I have read, in FATA and Baluchistan, you pretty much let them rule themselves, especially in the tribal areas. I.e. Nearly full autonomy.

But has that stopped the attacks? Once they know terrorism works, and will get them more concessions from the government, why would they ever stop?

 

[sur]

Look, 10 out of 15 civilian casualty were Uyghurs, so it is not about the religion oppression, but a CIA plotted attack with the goal to derail the stability of China.

100% agree. It's only a matter of time when US beats off from Afghanistan. & God willing things will restore back to normal... May be one more year (2014?) but US might try hard to mess up things more before she leaves. I sometimes wonder what US is trying to achieve by messing up the peace of the world? They can get better outcome in their favour if they do business like normal, without interfering with others affairs...!


This video talks of a plot that US federal govt plotted thru some Iranian-double-agents who working for FBI\CIA. It makes me think that recent plot where an Iman tipped off RCMP to derail VIA train was also linked to some guys in Iran... It might also be another one of those Iranian-double-agents.(?) & to keep it in close proximity to Boston's event those Iranian-CIA-agents were instructed to speed up their activities so that RCMP is prompted to act (thou they were watching for 1 year).
S-&-Co"

 

[Silverblaze]

The PRC government only wants the stability, now this attack caused 15 civilian casualty (10 Uyghurs, 3 Hans, 2 Mongolians).

I am still amazed how people can blame the Chinese government for this plotted attack, do they really believe that the Chinese government loves to kill its own citizens for fun?

Chinese members here don't just hate Muslims because of the western backed terrorists plot, and Pakistani members here don't get clouded by the western propaganda that China oppressed its Muslim population.

Listen there is anti muslim sentiment in China, quite a bit, but they are your people. Culturally they are more close to you than their co religionists anywhere.

China would overcome this problem because you are not Pakistan. Pakistan does not bring in reforms and cries when other exploit.

Just invest more and more. You are developing new cities which is good, but be on your guard against some forces because they just cannot see anyone exercising power.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Separatists will lose only if you deal with what the narrative they sell to people to justify their existence. Most of them,would be jobless kids,disenchanted with Beijing, give them jobs, most of them will move away and look after their families and live their lives,those who wont can be fought and defeated.

Not jobless, but many Uyghur youths will be recruited by the military.

And don't worry, even most PLA soldiers are Atheists, but when it comes to the minorities, the religious faith can be tolerated.

Listen there is anti muslim sentiment in China, quite a bit, but they are your people. Culturally they are more close to you than their co religionists anywhere.

China would overcome this problem because you are not Pakistan. Pakistan does not bring in reforms and cries when other exploit.

Just invest more and more. You are developing new cities which is good, but be on your guard against some forces because they just cannot see anyone exercising power.

Some Han Chinese have been just blinded by ultranationalism or western propaganda, but CPC is not the western government which has been controlled by a bunch of nutcases with the old schoold crusader mentality.

CPC can tolerate all kind of religion, but it can never tolerate the separatism.

 

[Kompromat]

Your solution, to give them more rights in response to terrorist attacks, has that worked in Pakistan?

That is just giving positive reinforcement and rewards, to extremism and terrorism, to make it the most effective method to get more rights.

From what I have read, in FATA and Baluchistan, you pretty much let them rule themselves, especially in the tribal areas. I.e. Nearly full autonomy.

But has that stopped the attacks? Once they know terrorism works, and will get them more concessions from the government, why would they ever stop?

Our case is different, i will try to explain it, point by point.

FATA: Is not part of Pakistan,its an autonomous region directly linked to Islamabad. We had a deal with them to allow them, to live according to their culture and traditions. If you look at the history, it has always worked,mind you we NEVER had to deploy regular Army on the western front to deal with Afghanistan,our tribes were enough to defend our borders. We started to have issues in those agencies after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the mass migration that followed. TTP and other terror outfits are hugely unpopular among the tribals. Drone strikes and our sell out govt, murdering its own citizens at the behest of the Americans have lead us into the mess we are in right now.

BLA: Was created by Moscow to pave the way for the 2nd step of Afghan invasion, which was to invade and occupy Balochistan and Gwadar. BLA is a Marxist organization and its purpose was to spread instability and pave the ground for soviet ground invasion. It too is deeply unpopular among the people and our program to give rights and royalties to our Baloch citizens have calmed the situation down to a level where we are now having elections in Balochistan. BLA and BRA's collective force has been reduced to 5000 as we have been providing jobs, amnesty,skills and education. If we keep fighting, we will not be able to pave the way for SinoPak strategic intests in the Arbian sea.

There is a saying in Urdu "Why poison the one who can be killed by honey?"

 

[qinglong-china]

Separatists will lose only if you deal with what the narrative they sell to people to justify their existence. Most of them,would be jobless kids,disenchanted with Beijing, give them jobs, most of them will move away and look after their families and live their lives,those who wont can be fought and defeated.

Your ignorance of history. According to your logic, Several Uighur behalf of all Uighurs, your friends will be able to represent all of the Uighur. A country a few criminals mean that all people of the country are criminals.
stupid logic

 

[Kompromat]

Your ignorance of history. According to your logic, Several Uighur behalf of all Uighurs, your friends will be able to represent all of the Uighur. A country a few criminals mean that all people of the country are criminals.
stupid logic

Or maybe you are just too ignorant to understand?... No more further arguments and personal attacks wont be tolerated. I will instruct you to maintain civility.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

There is a saying in Urdu "Why poison the one who can be killed by honey?"

That's a good point.

I feel we can do both at the same time in Xinjiang. Provide economic development and opportunities to the average person in order to keep them away from extremism, and simultaneously crack down hard on the extremists/separatists themselves.

But we must never make it look like violent tactics are an effective strategy. Which is what will happen if we back down and grant concessions after a terrorist attack has occurred.

The USA failed to do this in Afghanistan, they failed to successfully push the idea that terrorism is ineffective.

If anything, terror attacks in Afghanistan carry the perception of being very effective, so why would they stop doing it?

 

[Kompromat]

That's a good point.

I feel we can do both at the same time in Xinjiang. Provide economic development and opportunities to the average person in order to keep them away from extremism, and simultaneously crack down hard on the extremists/separatists themselves.

But we must never make it look like violent tactics are an effective strategy. Which is what will happen if we back down and grant concessions after a terrorist attack has occurred.

The USA failed to do this in Afghanistan, they failed to successfully push the idea that terrorism is ineffective.

If anything, terror attacks in Afghanistan carry the perception of being very effective, so why would they stop doing it?

Economic development will, not leave much space for foreign interests to manipulate Chinese population against their own countrymen. After the level of economic growth that has been carried out in other parts of China, the level of opposition will automatically reduced to an insignificant level.

 

[Silverblaze]

Our case is different, i will try to explain it, point by point.

FATA: Is not part of Pakistan,its an autonomous region directly linked to Islamabad. We had a deal with them to allow them, to live according to their culture and traditions. If you look at the history, it has always worked,mind you we NEVER had to deploy regular Army on the western front to deal with Afghanistan,our tribes were enough to defend our borders. We started to have issues in those agencies after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the mass migration that followed. TTP and other terror outfits are hugely unpopular among the tribals. Drone strikes and our sell out govt, murdering its own citizens at the behest of the Americans have lead us into the mess we are in right now.

BLA: Was created by Moscow to pave the way for the 2nd step of Afghan invasion, which was to invade and occupy Balochistan and Gwadar. BLA is a Marxist organization and its purpose was to spread instability and pave the ground for soviet ground invasion. It too is deeply unpopular among the people and our program to give rights and royalties to our Baloch citizens have calmed the situation down to a level where we are now having elections in Balochistan. BLA and BRA's collective force has been reduced to 5000 as we have been providing jobs, amnesty,skills and education. If we keep fighting, we will not be able to pave the way for SinoPak strategic intests in the Arbian sea.

There is a saying in Urdu "Why poison the one who can be killed by honey?"

You completely erased the role of the state of Pakistan during the 1980s. Why? Do you consider it your own victory against the Soviets?

Why was there never a single effort to evaluate the damages done after the war? After every war, this is the standard procedure.

30 thousand armed militia men didn't just dissolve. Where did they go?

They spread their ideologies, China, Afg, Pakistan, and beyond. And the US has been using them like useful idiots.

 

[Kompromat]

You completely erased the role of the state of Pakistan during the 1980s. Why? Do you consider it your own victory against the Soviets?

Why was there never a single effort to evaluate the damages done after the war? After every war, this is the standard procedure.

30 thousand armed militia men didn't just dissolve. Where did they go?

They spread their ideologies, China, Afg, Pakistan, and beyond. And the US has been using them like useful idiots.

Failures occur, and we didn't have the leadership nor the experience to deal with the aftermath of the Afghan war.

 

[qinglong-china]

Or maybe you are just too ignorant to understand?... No more further arguments and personal attacks wont be tolerated. I will instruct you to maintain civility.

No more further argument? Accordding to what your friends said, you start to say most of them are jobless kids, disenchanted with Beijing. In Xinjiang, the unemployment rate 3.2%, 3.2% represent all of the Uighur?

 

[Sasquatch]

That's f-ing sad. Brainwashing and training kids to kill. China need to put stomp this before it gets out of control and terrorist starting targeting major cities in China. These kids deserved better.

Looks like Islam can't coexist with any other religion.

No need to blame a whole religion based off a small group of bad apples now, I remember security forces raided a camp like this in southern Xinjiang back years ago.

PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.

Actually the government does look after minorities, that is why Uyghur get benefits in Universities , jobs, exempted from the one child policies. Let me give you an account of a true story between a Uyghur vendor and Han customer basically over some the purchasing of food in which the Uyghur selling and charged more then the Han customer demanded, the police took the side of the Uyghur as they do in similar cases. Reform and development has been carried out in Xinjiang that is why southern Xinjiang which is poorer has been given funds and increase of funds for development and increase in religious schools. And yes repression does exist however it exists for several other religious groups not only for one group, if you change it for one group you have to change it for all groups and that does not happen in China as it does in other places, takes time to change.

All citizens can express sorrow however extremism or in the case of the video with the being children indoctrinated, committing terror attacks, or starting riots does not help, never has never will.