Xi hails China, Pakistan as 'iron brothers'

[tower9]

Actually Indonesia interests me the most as well. Its the biggest Islamic country by population. They also have similar religious outlook as most Pakistanis. They can be great allies with huge trade and alot of people to people connection, yet a proper close relationship never developed. I have not read Indonesian history and politics deeply to understand their side. But i think it has alot to do with our inefficiency.
Now with quad and china, things are getting complicated. Indonesian people are not that fond of Australia and they have had issues. But on the other hand, Indonesia also have issues with china. Pakistan can certainly play a role if Pakistan can get Indonesia concessions from china in south china sea issues. Indonesia might as well get closer to west and US, depends on the political situation of Indonesia.
@Indos might give us his view on this.

I am actually optimistic about Indonesia China relations. Of course, in the past, there were issues because the Chinese Indonesians, who were very successful in business, were persecuted. This was particularly the case during the anti-Communist era of the Suharto era and also during the ensuing chaos after his downfall in 1998.

However, China's ties with Indonesia have been improving and Indonesia's treatment of its ethnic Chinese have improved as well.

I started watching these Indonesian female vlogger who had lived in Ningxia, China's Hui Muslim region, and it helped clear up some of my prior misconceptions. So it looks like Indonesia's treatment of its Chinese citizens have improved.

In addition, China is involved with building Indonesia's High Speed Rail network.

Anyways, Indonesia has immense potential as it has a huge and young population, a massive territory and immense resources. I think it can definitely become a great power one day if it continues to develop. I think China Indonesia relations are on the right track and am optimistic about the future.

 

[Indos]

These two are no doubt, I'm more interested in how Pakistani view countries like Russia, Indonesia, KSA (or any Arab states that may be active in regional affairs), perhaps also Bangladesh, Nepal, Afghanistan (well I know that's complicated), in the India threat context?

@Indos Indonesia is between Australia & India, in light of QUAD do you think you country is a potential ally of Pakistan?

I believe all Muslim countries are ally to one another, we have history with Pakistan where we help Pakistan and this is some how happen about the end of 1965 war with some fighter planes and 2 submarines and the plan to jump into the war against India to invade their Andaman and Nicobar island.

This is during the time we had war with British/Australia/New Zealan/Malaya (Malaysia+Singapore) with Sukarno Ganyang Malaysia campaign

 

[Indos]

I am actually optimistic about Indonesia China relations. Of course, in the past, there were issues because the Chinese Indonesians, who were very successful in business, were persecuted. This was particularly the case during the anti-Communist era of the Suharto era and also during the ensuing chaos after his downfall in 1998.

However, China's ties with Indonesia have been improving and Indonesia's treatment of its ethnic Chinese have improved as well.

I started watching these Indonesian female vlogger who had lived in Ningxia, China's Hui Muslim region, and it helped clear up some of my prior misconceptions. So it looks like Indonesia's treatment of its Chinese citizens have improved.

In addition, China is involved with building Indonesia's High Speed Rail network.

Anyways, Indonesia has immense potential as it has a huge and young population, a massive territory and immense resources. I think it can definitely become a great power one day if it continues to develop. I think China Indonesia relations are on the right track and am optimistic about the future.

1965 has nothing to do with anti Chinese campaign, it was anti Communist campaign and the most victim is native Communist

Well, Indonesia-China relation is very potential to be very close as history between 2 nations are close. In Indonesia education we are taught that we came from Yunnan, South China. There is story of Admiral Zeng He as well.

Something that has been confirmed by DNA finding though. And Austronesian people of Taiwan that is stated by many scientist as the source of Indonesian is basically originated from mainland China.

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Southeast Asians and East Asians (among others) are very closely related and form one genetic cluster, known as East-Eurasian or East Asian-related.

A study in 2020 by Prof. FU Qiaomei's team from the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology (IVPP) of the Chinese Academy of Sciences published in Science on May 14 found:


“Present-day mainland East Asians from both the north and south share a closer genetic relationship to northern Neolithic East Asians along the Yellow River and to southern Neolithic East Asians on the southern coast of China. Further analyses show that the northern ancestry playing a larger role. Population movement, particularly from the north along the Yellow River southward was a prominent part of East Asian prehistory after the Neolithic. Interestingly, present-day Han Chinese in all provinces, north and south, show a similar amount of northern and southern influences.

Southern East Asian-related ancestry, while less represented in mainland East Asia today, had extensive influence on other regions. Present-day Austronesian speakers, who share a close genetic relationship to present-day mainland East Asians but live across a wide swath of islands in Southeast Asia and the Southwest Pacific, show a remarkably close genetic relationship to Neolithic populations from the southern coast of China.

Archaeological materials dating back to the Middle Neolithic have long hinted at the connection between Austronesian islanders and populations in mainland East Asia. Now, the genetic relationships uncovered by Prof. FU and her team show unambiguous evidence that Austronesian speakers today originated from a proto-Austronesian population that derived from southern China at least 8,400 year ago.”

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The prediction is somewhere quite true as the oldest Austronesian remain in Indonesia is found recently and has age of 7000 years old.

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DNA Finding

 

[tower9]

1965 has nothing to do with anti Chinese campaign, it was anti Communist campaign and the most victim is native Communist

Well, Indonesia-China relation is very potential to be very close as history between 2 nations are close. In Indonesia education we are taught that we came from Yunnan, South China. There is story of Admiral Zeng He as well.

Something that has been confirmed by DNA finding though. And Austronesian people of Taiwan that is stated by many scientist as the source of Indonesian is basically originated from mainland China.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Southeast Asians and East Asians (among others) are very closely related and form one genetic cluster, known as East-Eurasian or East Asian-related.

A study in 2020 by Prof. FU Qiaomei's team from the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology (IVPP) of the Chinese Academy of Sciences published in Science on May 14 found:


“Present-day mainland East Asians from both the north and south share a closer genetic relationship to northern Neolithic East Asians along the Yellow River and to southern Neolithic East Asians on the southern coast of China. Further analyses show that the northern ancestry playing a larger role. Population movement, particularly from the north along the Yellow River southward was a prominent part of East Asian prehistory after the Neolithic. Interestingly, present-day Han Chinese in all provinces, north and south, show a similar amount of northern and southern influences.

Southern East Asian-related ancestry, while less represented in mainland East Asia today, had extensive influence on other regions. Present-day Austronesian speakers, who share a close genetic relationship to present-day mainland East Asians but live across a wide swath of islands in Southeast Asia and the Southwest Pacific, show a remarkably close genetic relationship to Neolithic populations from the southern coast of China.

Archaeological materials dating back to the Middle Neolithic have long hinted at the connection between Austronesian islanders and populations in mainland East Asia. Now, the genetic relationships uncovered by Prof. FU and her team show unambiguous evidence that Austronesian speakers today originated from a proto-Austronesian population that derived from southern China at least 8,400 year ago.”

-----------------------------------------------------------

The prediction is somewhere quite true as the oldest Austronesian remain in Indonesia is found recently and has age of 7000 years old.

-------------------------------------------------------------

DNA Finding

View attachment 787960

Yes, it's pretty clear that the Austronesian people actually originated around Taiwan and Southeast China and then gradually spread southwards. It is pretty amazing how great their sailing skills were to be able to populate islands so far and remote ranging from Madagascar to New Zealand to Hawaii.

Most of the Southern Chinese Han still have part Austronesian genes as well.

 

[PakFactor]

I echo President Xi's sentiment. I have recently come to feel quite grateful to Pakistan - it deals with India so the rest of the world doesn't have to. It stands on the wall so we can sleep peacefully, free from the open defecation hordes. All of us owe Pakistan a debt of gratitude.

We do our best to slap them around. Imagine waking up from your sleep and you see a poop like figure staring at you from the window all the time (theirs 1B+ of these ants). The thought just scares me, but you have these stupid whites who want to spread them everywhere.

 

[faithfulguy]

One great thing about China is that they absolutely hate how the British and other colonial powers have designed the neighborhood. The post-colonial order needs radical change and China can play an instrumental role in bringing about this change with the cooperation of its regional partners like Pakistan. The first job is to destroy the white man's most subservient slave in Asia, the colonial relic called India.

India is indeed an evidence that colonialism never ended when the British left. With a subservient slave like India,colonialism live on. And it’s the average or low caste Indians that suffers.

 

[Indos]

Yes, it's pretty clear that the Austronesian people actually originated around Taiwan and Southeast China and then gradually spread southwards. It is pretty amazing how great their sailing skills were to be able to populate islands so far and remote ranging from Madagascar to New Zealand to Hawaii.

Most of the Southern Chinese Han still have part Austronesian genes as well.

Yup, we also have been educated since we are kids that Indonesian is a sailor people and sail to Madagaskar.

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Talking about the root cause of conflict between native Indonesian and Chinese Indonesian this is more to do with the coming of Dutch.

Chinese immigration to Indonesia has been well documented by famous ancient historian of Arab, Ibnu Batutah, when he visited Indonesia. Chinese ethnic has been around and do many kind of activities, including farming. No tension ever recorded in history for a thousand year or longer.

During the start of Western occupation and invasion into maritime South East Asia, basically native Indonesian and Chinese Indonesian were hand in hand to defense SEA maritime and there was time when both were united and attacked Portuguese that at the time settled and occupied Malaysia already. Chinese group from Jakarta (Jayakarta) that become one of the main troops.

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The conflict arise after Dutch occupation, the latest immigration adopted Christian rather than Islam in order to get advantage to do trade with Dutch. Actually the first nationalist movement during Dutch occupation started from economic point of view where native Indonesian who are Muslim were discriminated in term of trade as Dutch prefers to trade with Chinese who are willingly adopting Christian as their new religion. The first nationalistic movement is started with the raise of Syarikat Islam (Islamic Union) in 1911.

 

[Indos]

Actually Indonesia interests me the most as well. Its the biggest Islamic country by population. They also have similar religious outlook as most Pakistanis. They can be great allies with huge trade and alot of people to people connection, yet a proper close relationship never developed. I have not read Indonesian history and politics deeply to understand their side. But i think it has alot to do with our inefficiency.
Now with quad and china, things are getting complicated. Indonesian people are not that fond of Australia and they have had issues. But on the other hand, Indonesia also have issues with china. Pakistan can certainly play a role if Pakistan can get Indonesia concessions from china in south china sea issues. Indonesia might as well get closer to west and US, depends on the political situation of Indonesia.
@Indos might give us his view on this.

Australian in term of their political establishment understand the importance of having good relation with its closest neighbor, Indonesia. The elites of Australian understand this, but the common people of Australian look like has some issue with Indonesia as we can see through their biased media and people opinion that can easily be seen in this internet era.

We can see think thank like Lowy Institute of Australia ( NGO civilian institution ) like to play down Indonesia in their Asia Power Index ranking and put Indonesia behind Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand. Even they scores our technology below Bangladesh.

Indonesia issue with China is only in small dispute and I think it is manageable. Only people who dont understand holistic issue and has less knowledge about geopolitics and economics who still think Indonesia and China will sacrifice the benefit of their trade to each other and geopolitical connection between those two just for the sake of few disputed area in SCS.

As China investment grows, growing trade between the two where China has become our biggest trade partner, the supply of Indonesian coal to China, Indonesia geopolitics weight increasing, mature and clever leaders in both nations, the future fall of fossil fuel importance in economic activity (making oil and gas finding in SCS is not as important as in the older time), the fact that China is not communist nation anymore but rather socialist with mix economy (somehow similar like Indonesian economic structure and policy), both IMO will have great future to have close relationship, even the current relationship is quite close and basically ASEAN has made balance between USA and China where Indonesia is the most important power within ASEAN.

 

[Song Hong]

China is the most Muslim friendly country in the world. When their Shia brothers are under siege by the US and her attack dogs, only China is helping. Simple religion traitors want Iran to fall.

 

[Indos]

Yup, we also have been educated since we are kids that Indonesian is a sailor people and sail to Madagaskar.

---------------------------------------------

Talking about the root cause of conflict between native Indonesian and Chinese Indonesian this is more to do with the coming of Dutch.

Chinese immigration to Indonesia has been well documented by famous ancient historian of Arab, Ibnu Batutah, when he visited Indonesia. Chinese ethnic has been around and do many kind of activities, including farming. No tension ever recorded in history for a thousand year or longer.

During the start of Western occupation and invasion into maritime South East Asia, basically native Indonesian and Chinese Indonesian were hand in hand to defense SEA maritime and there was time when both were united and attacked Portuguese that at the time settled and occupied Malaysia already. Chinese group from Jakarta (Jayakarta) that become one of the main troops.

-----------------------------------------------

The conflict arise after Dutch occupation, the latest immigration adopted Christian rather than Islam in order to get advantage to do trade with Dutch. Actually the first nationalist movement during Dutch occupation started from economic point of view where native Indonesian who are Muslim were discriminated in term of trade as Dutch prefers to trade with Chinese who are willingly adopting Christian as their new religion. The first nationalistic movement is started with the raise of Syarikat Islam (Islamic Union) in 1911.

Just need to stress this as no tension among Native Indonesian and Chinese Indonesian ever happen again since Reformation time. 1998 Mei event with so many burning action is also done by tugs who benefit in such condition to release their aggressive mode, all normal native Indonesian were staying at home during the moment and some maybe just burn wheels at streets to block roads. 1998 Mei is also prompted by the deaths of university students in Trisakti University as the demonstrators were being shot by security officers, it is just Chinese Indonesian group were not vocal against Soeharto and being seen as backing Soeharto regime that make them become the victim.

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Many Chinese Indonesian have become popular in many different profession, even Chinese Indonesian man with his nick name, Mongol Stress ( what a name ), become the most popular stand up comedian in Indonesia.

Mongol Stress get invited by a national TV, he is Catholic by the way

One Chinese Indonesian become a jet fighter pilot, he is also Christian as he studied in Christian High School. As I said in PDF earlier that Chinese Indonesian prefer to go to Christian school than public/state owned school.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Yes we are strong allies. Pakistan can diplomatically help China in the Muslim world.

 

[Song Hong]

China Pakistan found one another far more reasonable than India, in terms of territorial demarcation. And both side can reason and live in peace. Pakistan has never covet neighbours' land. Not an inch of Afghanistan is annex even during her darkest hour. In comparison, India never miss any opportunity to forward-policy against all her neighbours.

 

[Beidou2020]

With India joining the QUAD and anti-China alliance, China no longer need to balance relations with India and Pakistan. China no longer cares about good relations with India as India has turned fully hostile against China. You will see China-Pakistan relations go to the highest possible level.

 

[Pak_Sher]

China and Turkey our only 2 real allies.

Qatar, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia. Did you not see the $4.3 billion Saudi bailout package.

 

[Kompromat]

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