Would conversion of C-130 into REK bomb truck help PAF strategic bombing?

[Ultima Thule]

Even if target area is behind LOC and inside Pakistan?

????? what do you mean ?????? Pakistan bombs itself

 

[Philip the Arab]

????? what do you mean ?????? Pakistan bombs itself

I mean launched at a target inside India but launched from inside Pakistani airspace. Inside REK a glide bomb after all?

Sir,

Whys is this forum allowing children to run worthless threads on a continuous basis---?

Sir,

Other members have agreed with me, and if you had read the thread to the full you would understand it isn't as simple as what your brain can handle.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I mean launched at a target inside India but launched from inside Pakistani airspace.

3-4 for Km from international border/LOC, SAMs and air superiority jet would eat C-130

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

Other members have agreed with me, and if you had read the thread to the full you would understand it isn't as simple as what your brain can handle.

Hi,

Other members are like sheep---equally clueless as you are---.

So---don't be strutting around like a rooster and think like you have come up with something magical---.

On further lookup---I don't see anyone agreeing with you---.

 

[Philip the Arab]

3-4 for Km from international border/LOC, SAMs and air superiority jet would eat C-130

Yeah, can't it be launched like 20 km inside Pakistan and hit something 80 km inside India?

Hi,

Other members are like sheep---equally clueless as you are---.

So---don't be strutting around like a rooster and think like you have come up with something magical---.

On further lookup---I don't see anyone agreeing with you---.

On another thread...
https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/11741044/

 

[Signalian]

Thats what I told him and the OP that you need complete air superiority to use C130 meaningfully as a bomber... but here we are in another thread now.

Here is my reply from the other similar thread:

This is not out of the box thinking at all by the OP but rather a result of being ignoramus.

The entire C130 fleet of PAF was used as a bomber in 1965 war. The C-130 aircraft played an important role in the 1965 war and destroyed Many Bridges as well as Indian fighter jets during the air missions as per a TV documentary aired on AirMarshal Nur Khan. Special guns were installed at the ramp of C-130 aircraft for Gilgit air mission to target the Indian aircraft too. But that was another era altogether. The rules of the game have changed.

Not repeating the obvious flaws of the Idea already explained by some posters like much needed air superiority etc as well as common sense...

There is however one particular strike role that C130s can possibly fulfil without the much needed airsuperiority requirements over eastern border areas; Carry a couple of Nuclear tipped ALCM like Babur on modified pylons and hover around KPK Baluchistan boundary to provide "additional" and much needed "second strike" capability to our strategic weapons arsenal.

We have 18 C130s (B/ C/ E and H versions). If PAF adds ALCM capabilities to half of them for additional or "multi-role" use, then it potentially gives us a good 18 ALCMs to hit back at Indias as a Second Strike option from the air when our cities and installations are already hit.

I did use the term "additional second strike" capability as the best of it is still Submarine LCM or SLCM. Limiting the comment on purpose.

Do read up on second strike capability, its unequivocall deterrence value and why its needed and more importantly, what the implication of its use means.


View attachment 576793

Apart from transport, some sort of EC-130 with EW and jamming capability (against IED's and other electronic controlled detonating devices) to support ground troops. I read somewhere that PAF converted one C-130 temporarily for that purpose for use in NW and FATA. cant find link now.

> My thinking is that, such big planes are extremely vulnerable and even a mig 21 from the enemy could lock on to the aircraft and and shoot it down from 130 KMs away. Not to forget that such big planes are also quite vulnerable to MANPAD systems which Indian infantry can carry in large quantities near the border.

> Large bombers can only be deployed when a full air superiority is achieved in the sky and the Airforce is positive that the survival of the big bombers can be ensured. If Pakistan had for eg. additional 90 Chinese J10s or 50 F-16 Block Vs, then air superiority could be easily achieved meanwhile our JF thunders could provide cover to bombers.

> NOW = If you want to destroy enemy airbases with bombers and fighter jets in 2019 something went really wrong. Pakistan has a very capable missile arsenal that in itself is a force to reckon with. Pakistan needs to invest in the accuracy, quality and quantity of the Babur cruise missile because a few hundred of these missiles can wreak havoc on the enemy airstrips, bunkers, shelters and command centers. Other benefits include:
- Cruise missiles can be launched within 10 minutes in large numbers with high probability of hitting targets.
- The aspect of stealth in case of surprise attack can be ensured.
- We have only around 20 C-130s and they are the backbone of our military transport. Using them for bombing missions could cripple our logistics.

> See what a few cruise missiles did to an airfield in Syria :

View attachment 576790

> Cruise missiles were inducted by USA in the early 80s, and are still indispensable to them, infact they are the first ones to see the battle wherever USA is engaged : Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and more...

> I think the use of bombers to bomb strategic locations was made obsolete with cruise missiles. However, if you want to carpet bomb entire areas for some reason, then bombers would be more 'economical'.

Above is un-manned F-16, the QF-16

Older Mirages/F-7/even retired A-5 should be tested for pilot-less unmanned test flight. Not to be used as decoys or dummy drone aircrafts (for target practice or kamikaze attacks), but remotely piloted from simulated ground stations with full aerial combat and fighter capability. 6th gen is stealth and most probably unmanned.

This helps nullify IAF W/C Abhinandan incidents and puts older aircraft to good use without loss of modern pilots who are apt to flying 4/4.5 gen aircrafts.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Yeah, can't it be launched like 20 km inside Pakistan and hit something 80 km inside India?


On another thread...
https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/11741044/

Same results as above post whether c'130. Is 20 km away or 3-4 km from the border it Will be SHOOT DOWN by sams and BVR @Philip the Arab

 

[Philip the Arab]

Apart from transport, some sort of EC-130 with EW and jamming capability (against IED's and other electronic controlled detonating devices) to support ground troops. I read somewhere that PAF converted one C-130 temporarily for that purpose for use in NW and FATA. cant find link now.



View attachment 576795
Above is un-manned F-16, the QF-16

Older Mirages/F-7/even retired A-5 should be tested for pilot-less unmanned test flight. Not to be used as decoys or dummy drone aircrafts (for taregt practice of kamikaze attacks), but remotely piloted from simulated ground stations with full aerial combat and fighter capability. 6th gen is stealth and most probably unmanned.

This helps nullify IAF W/C Abhinandan incidents and puts older aircraft to good use without loss of modern pilots who are apt to flying 4/4.5 gen aircrafts.

Same results as above post whether c'130. Is 20 km away or 3-4 km from the border it Will be SHOOT DOWN by sams and BVR @Philip the Arab

What is the highest Indian range Indian SAM in service right now?

 

[Ultima Thule]

What is the highest Indian range Indian SAM in service right now?

S-300 @Philip the Arab

 

[Signalian]

What is the highest Indian range Indian SAM in service right now?

Your question should be:
How can Pakistan render useless any Indian SAM system ?

The answer is :
Most Long range SAM systems need Radars. Pakistan has SEAD/DEAD Capability in few forms. For DEAD, JF-17 carries MAR-1. F-16 carries AGM-65 (well its should be AGM-88 instead). Mirage carries H-2, H-4 and Ra'ad. UCAV's carry ATGM. MLRS ofcourse. Then the ground to ground CM's. But honestly, this is all boring.

SEAD is more interesting. It lets an aircraft operate with assistance of other EW aircraft and makes the expensive Radar and SAM systems look worthless. Cause confusion in the designated area of operations minimizing/nullifying radar coverage through "noise" signals and other techniques, complete mission, head home. Let the enemy polish its billions of USD worth equipment- very frustrating.

 

[Philip the Arab]

S-300 @Philip the Arab

Why would S-300 focus on targeting C-130? Wouldn't it be more focused on fighter sized RCS targets?

Your question should be:
How can Pakistan render useless any Indian SAM system ?

The answer is :
Most Long range SAM systems need Radars. Pakistan has SEAD/DEAD Capability in few forms. For DEAD, JF-17 carries MAR-1. F-16 carries AGM-65 (well its should be AGM-88 instead). Mirage carries H-2, H-4 and Ra'ad. UCAV's carry ATGM. MLRS ofcourse. Then the ground to ground CM's. But honestly, this is all boring.

SEAD is more interesting. It lets an aircraft operate with assistance of other EW aircraft and makes the expensive Radar and SAM systems look worthless. Cause confusion in the designated area of operations minimizing/nullifying radar coverage through "noise" signals and other techniques, complete mission, head home. Let the enemy polish its billions of USD worth equipment- very frustrating.

How good is the EW system on this JF-17?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Your question should be:
How can Pakistan render useless any Indian SAM system ?

The answer is :
Most Long range SAM systems need Radars. Pakistan has SEAD/DEAD Capability in few forms. For DEAD, JF-17 carries MAR-1. F-16 carries AGM-65 (well its should be AGM-88 instead). Mirage carries H-2, H-4 and Ra'ad. UCAV's carry ATGM. MLRS ofcourse. Then the ground to ground CM's. But honestly, this is all boring.

SEAD is more interesting. It lets an aircraft operate with assistance of other EW aircraft and makes the expensive Radar and SAM systems look worthless. Cause confusion in the designated area of operations minimizing/nullifying radar coverage through "noise" signals and other techniques, complete mission, head home. Let the enemy polish its billions of USD worth equipment- very frustrating.

JF-17 used both LD-10/MAR-1 sir

 

[zn426]

A better solution would be to turn a C-130 into a flying drone platform. It depends on how large the drones are, but they could easily overwhelm what appears to be a struggling air defense system in India into complete chaos if hundreds of drones can be launched. Those drones would likely be ground support aircraft or if possible, jammers. India's ability to protect it's air communications looks like a significant weakness in their defense

 

[Ultima Thule]

Why would S-300 focus on targeting C-130? Wouldn't it be more focused on fighter sized RCS targets?

Bro bro S-300 is air defense system its radar can detect all air traffic within its radar range from Civil airliners to ALL KIND OF MILITARY AIRCRAFT with its radar range, what a stupid post this is @Philip the Arab

 

[Signalian]

How good is the EW system on this JF-17?

Block-III should be able to come to par with F-16, if dedicated EW pods/centralized data link is added. So far F-16 is at the top in PAF, however, fly a F-16 with JF-17 and Mirage, then you have an all round lethal combo in the air. Give this package cover from AWACS / DA-20 and then any aircraft/SAM from IAF inventory can be taken on, even S-400 or SU-30 or Rafale.