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World’s Biggest Arms Importer, India Wants to Buy Local

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NEW DELHI — Of the 30 countries that attended a defense exposition last month to sell weapons to India, the world’s largest arms importer, only the Russians had the chutzpah to dress up their tanks and guns with women in tight fitting camouflage.

The confident and sexy display reflected Russia’s longtime position as India’s dominant military provider, but decades of effort by India to make its own hardware may finally be bearing fruit. India recently rolled out its own fighter jet, a tank, a mobile howitzer and a host of locally made ships.

If India succeeds, the Russians could be in trouble. Russia has nearly $39 billion worth of military equipment on order by India, representing nearly a third of Russia’s total arms exports.

India’s defense minister, A. K. Antony, said at a news conference during the exposition that the country’s reliance on foreign arms makers must end. “A growing India still depending on foreign companies for a substantial part of our defense needs is not a happy situation,” he said.

Whether India can break its import addiction is anyone’s guess, but many arms analysts are skeptical. India is expected to spend about $11 billion this year buying weapons from abroad, despite decades of effort by the government to create a domestic military manufacturing sector.

“I don’t think there’s another country in the world that has tried as hard as India to make weapons and failed as thoroughly,” said Pieter D. Wezeman, a senior researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which studies global security.

Mr. Wezeman said he was skeptical that India’s new products would change that history, saying that its fighters, tanks and guns were “of questionable quality.”

India ranks eighth in the world in military spending. Among the top 10 weapons buyers, only Saudi Arabia has a less productive homegrown military industry. China, by contrast, has been so effective that it is beginning to export higher-technology arms.

India’s main problem as an arms manufacturer is a corrupt and inefficient government sector that has neither the expertise to develop top-notch weapons nor the wherewithal to make them in abundance, said Manoj Joshi, a fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, a policy group based in New Delhi. In one telling example, India could buy fully assembled Russian Sukhoi fighters for about $55 million each, but instead mostly relies on kits that are sent to the government-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which assembles them at a cost of about $68 million each — nearly a quarter more. In another example, government labs spent billions trying to develop an aircraft engine, only to abandon the effort and buy engines from General Electric for the recently introduced fighter, the Tejas.

“While it’s more complicated assembling Sukhois than putting together an Ikea flat-pack, it’s not that hard,” said Samuel Perlo-Freeman, a program director at the Stockholm institute. “And it’s far from an independent and autonomous development of a new weapons system.”

India has tried to encourage private companies to make arms in India, both in partnerships to the government and independently, but few of these efforts have succeeded. Most of India’s homegrown arms are developed in 50 government labs and built at eight large government manufacturing facilities and 40 government ordnance factories. Companies have mostly been unwilling to work with the government, and the government has not allowed foreign makers to own more than 26 percent of any Indian factory. It has agreed to raise that limit to 49 percent, but no company has applied for the exception.

Mr. Antony dismissed criticisms of the government’s chokehold on arms production. “Indian scientists and Indian industry are more efficient, and the government will have to support them,” he said.

But Mr. Joshi said India’s government needed to get out of manufacturing. “Our defense industrial base is hopelessly out of date,” he said. “It needs to be dismantled and handed over to the private sector.”

Photo
Indiaweaponsjp2-articleLarge.jpg

Ashish Saraf manages the program. Credit Graham Crouch for The New York Times
That has left the door open for countries like Russia, whose arms deliveries to India reached a record level in 2012, the most recent year for which figures are available, rising 50 percent from 2011. In the previous five years, India bought 12 percent of the world’s arms imports, and Russia accounted for 79 percent of India’s deliveries, according to the Stockholm institute. American manufacturers have recently won several orders for transport and maritime patrol aircraft, displacing some Russian equipment, but the Russians are still by far India’s dominant arms supplier. In 2012, Russia delivered to India the second nuclear-powered submarine ever exported by any country.

Alexander Kadakin, Russia’s ambassador to India, dismissed any notion of a slowdown in sales to India. “It is inappropriate in my view and even incorrect to speak about Russia allegedly losing its leading positions in the Indian market,” he told an exposition publication.

Because of poor infrastructure, stultifying labor rules and difficulties acquiring real estate, making anything in India is hard. The country’s manufacturing sector is declining and now represents 13 percent of the total economy — about the same share as in the United States.

But its military and civil aviation markets are so enticing that major manufacturers are opening facilities in the country anyway. In 2010, Sikorsky Aircraft, part of the American conglomerate United Technologies, opened a plant in Hyderabad that it operates jointly with Tata Advanced Systems. The facility assembles the cabin for its midsize helicopter, the S-92. The helicopter’s cabin was previously made at a Mitsubishi facility in Japan. Production was transferred to India not because costs were lower (surprisingly, they were not), but because having a local facility might encourage sales in India, said Ashish Saraf, program manager for the Tata-Sikorsky joint venture, of which Sikorsky owns 26 percent.

Shipping has been a challenge. Some of the Tata-Sikorsky plant’s most important equipment was damaged on the trip from the port in Mumbai by India’s terrible roads, delaying production. The plant sends its helicopter cabins back to the port; from there, they are shipped to Pennsylvania, where the aircraft are fully assembled.

To safeguard against damage to the cabins, the company has hired the operator of a fleet of specially made suspension trucks that travel more slowly, at less than 30 miles an hour, and never at night. As a result, the 450-mile journey takes five days. At least two people are needed for each journey, since one must repeatedly get out with a long stick to push low-slung electrical wires up and out of the way of the truck.

“Our early expenses were very high, as we were breaking ground in almost every area we wanted services — Internet, phone, water, sewage, electricity. Everything,” Mr. Saraf said. “The challenges continue in terms of logistics and transportation.”

To encourage local manufacturing, India now requires private foreign arms companies to undertake at least a third of their manufacturing in India, as measured by the value of the weapons. But because of the difficulties in making high-technology equipment in India, billions of dollars’ worth of products from these so-called offsets have been piling up unused.

A $16 billion deal to sell 126 Rafale fighters from the French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation has been in limbo for years, in part because the French have balked at India’s manufacturing requirements. With India’s economy struggling, expensive purchases like the Rafale may no longer be feasible anyway, said Ajai Shukla, defense consulting editor at the Business Standard newspaper.

“We are at a watershed moment, because we cannot afford to keep importing every piece of equipment we need,” Mr. Shukla said. “We have just produced a fighter, a tank and a range of warships. For the first time, India can realistically indigenize.”

Much of India’s military, in any case, does not want Indian-made equipment. So many Russian fighters assembled by Hindustan Aeronautics have crashed in recent years that the Indian Air Force calls them flying coffins. India’s Russian-made submarines and naval equipment have experienced deadly mishaps in the past year as well, leading the country’s naval chief to resign last week. The distrust between the civilian builders and military users has turned the made-in-India effort into an even tougher sell. If the two sides cannot agree, the Russians are ready to step in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/b...ocal.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes

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Yeah,India can start with learning how to make decent rifles,then mortars,then。。。

The list is long,very long。

which part of the locally made ships is actually Indian?
 
Yeah,India can start with learning how to make decent rifles,then mortars,then。。。

The list is long,very long。

which part of the locally made ships is actually Indian?

Here we are talking about an Indigenous industry only with our effort or making JV in a decent way not by stealing others effort
like some other countries do.
 
Yeah,India can start with learning how to make decent rifles,then mortars,then。。。

The list is long,very long。

which part of the locally made ships is actually Indian?

Insas is a decent rifle, there is a reason why all branches use it for more than 15 years, sure it had problems in the beginning but those have been fixed. It now serves in jungles, forests, mountains, deserts etc etc etc

The IA could have gone with foreign rifles, but it did not.
 
Insas is a decent rifle, there is a reason why all branches use it for more than 15 years, sure it had problems in the beginning but those have been fixed. It now serves in jungles, forests, mountains, deserts etc etc etc

The IA could have gone with foreign rifles, but it did not.



INSAS is crap. It is being phased out and was forced onto our forces.
 
INSAS is crap. It is being phased out and was forced onto our forces.

Give some proof for that, except your dubious claim.

And its not being phased out, that will happen after some more years, so the INSAS will have served around 20 yrs by then.
 
Give some proof for that, except your dubious claim.

And its not being phased out, that will happen after some more years, so the INSAS will have served around 20 yrs by then.



It was forced on our forces...its a piece of crap. Back your BS
 
It was forced on our forces...its a piece of crap. Back your BS

Mate, it can't be forced, since if the Army didn't want it, they can simply go for other guns. Specially considering when we can license produce the AK variants of Russian guns. The army initially had problems with the guns during Kargil, but they were later fixed.
 
Insas was a hallmark of failed, goofed up design. When the world moved towards lighter & sharper weapons, we've put lives of our soldiers into danger by forcing them to use such archaic weaponry system. In the name of self reliance, It was disaster by DRDO & ARDE to put such archaic designs into mass production. Our soldiers deserve better weapons, at least they're the only ones who are putting down their lives for the nation, while everyone else is busy plundering it.
 
Oh please,we don't use Ukrainian designed Gas Turbines on our engines & call them indigenous like you do..
Hehe, Indian have not called LCA and Arjun indigenous? your defence industry suck.
As to ship, don't be mad, accident occur at indian navy is not news, not accident is big news, first stop these ridiculous accident.

Heard that price of Rafale rise, preparing more money for rip off again, or will you spend more time to choosing the 5th fighter, or 6th fighter?
 
Hehe, Indian have not called LCA and Arjun indigenous? your defence industry suck.

Why cant India call LCA & Arjun as Indigenous?I have listed the indigenous content of LCA in an other thread.And for your industry,you guys call 'J11' as indigenous,aint it?

As to ship, don't be mad, accident occur at indian navy is not news, not accident is big news, first stop these ridiculous accident.

Kilo class were never made in India,So don't blame it on us.The last one was due to bursting of a valve of a CO2 cylinder .Dont hype it?
 
Why cant India call LCA & Arjun as Indigenous?I have listed the indigenous content of LCA in an other thread.And for your industry,you guys call 'J11' as indigenous,aint it?
If LCA and Arjun is the project that many core copponents are imported can be called as indigenous, why Chinese engine can't?

As to J11, its appearance is same with SU-27, I don't know how much Chinese engineer change it, Maybe it is different with SU-27, Maybe not, I don't find some Chinese say it is indigenous, But I know J11 can be made by Chinese with all Chinese copponent, and I don't say J11 is Chinese indigenous, OK.


Kilo class were never made in India,So don't blame it on us.The last one was due to bursting of a valve of a CO2 cylinder .Dont hype it?
Sorry, I don't blame it on india, because it is normal thing for your indian, Many country have Kilo, but seems the accident always occur in india.

I don't hype it, I don't like india, for me, the accident occur in india just like the joke, If you think the thing is not made by your india, so not your fault, ok, you win.
 
If LCA and Arjun is the project that many core copponents are imported can be called as indigenous, why Chinese engine can't?

Core components?What are they?I pointed out 'Ukrainian Gas Turbines used on Chinese warships ' because that particular poster I was replying to used to mock Indian Warships for using 'GE gas turbines' without knowing that Most of Chinese Warships use Ukrainian gas turbines.

As to J11, its appearance is same with SU-27, I don't know how much Chinese engineer change it, Maybe it is different with SU-27, Maybe not, I don't find some Chinese say it is indigenous, But I know J11 can be made by Chinese with all Chinese copponent, and I don't say J11 is Chinese indigenous, OK.

I have heard the claim 'Indigenous J 11' many times in this forum.And if you doesn't know Su 27 is still a Russian design.Manufacturing them in house,with a few modifications ( like India manufactures Su 30 MKI ) would not make them Indigenous

Sorry, I don't blame it on india, because it is normal thing for your indian, Many country have Kilo, but seems the accident always occur in india.

Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Core components?What are they?I pointed out 'Ukrainian Gas Turbines used on Chinese warships ' because that particular poster I was replying to used to mock Indian Warships for using 'GE gas turbines' without knowing that Most of Chinese Warships use Ukrainian gas turbines.
Most of Chinese warships use Ukranian gas Turbines?! hehe!


I have heard the claim 'Indigenous J 11' many times in this forum.And if you doesn't know Su 27 is still a Russian design.Manufacturing them in house,with a few modifications ( like India manufactures Su 30 MKI ) would not make them Indigenous
few modifications, you think Chinese is impotent like your indian?


Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Excuse me, I have said no accident occur on China Navy?!
I mean you indian suck, too much accidents, and always blame it on others for your impotence, because Kilo is made by Russia, so Russia should be responsible for these accidents? you count in last 12 month, how many accidents occur in India Navy, idiot.
BTW, check the valve or cylinder, find who made them?!
 
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