World's Best Armies Vs Rag Tag Militia with AK47s

[M8R]

Well you see there is a lot of difference between Afghan war and a typical conventional war.Let me give you example of Gulf War 1 - 1990 the main goal was to defeat Iraqi defenses and netueralize Iraqi Forces and they did it got the hell out of there but when you start talking about COIN that's where it gets messy.Another example but shameful example for US was 1971 Indian Army had clear objective and that was to take Dhaka and the conventional military did it.

 

[Icarus]

hmm makes sense. But without meaning to be rude im stuck at this point that isnt war about achieving targets and if you dont you simply havent won? now am not arguing about the warfare tactics but if this kind of militant tactics (the likes of taliban) can win u ur objectives or can cause ur opponents not the achieve theirs... then what good are there gadgets if they cant win u the stated objectives?

see what am saying?

If you notice, the Taliban are still in the fight, but the dominant party is still the NATO and ISAF, they are the ones in charge, that's the difference, whereas the Taliban are only acting like a nuisance, the ISAF are firmly in control and a couple of random acts of desperation cannot take the upper hand away from the coalition forces.

 

[Cynic Waheed]

The initial argument is already flawed because it is based upon the presumption that a low intensity, long duration guerrilla warfare is an option. No, it is not option. No one likes to fight for long. The goal is ever to bring overwhelming advantages to the fight and we label that 'conventional warfare'. The side that has to resort to that low intensity, long duration warfare do so because it suffer a gross disadvantage in some critical areas, usually weapons. If the US remains fighting in Afghanistan for years, it is because we have certain political goals that restrains the employment of the gross advantages we have in weapons, not because the weapons themselves are somehow 'inadequate' or 'inappropriate' for the conflict. Would I rather obliterate the hill filled with Taliban fighters? Of course I would instead of sending troops.

I really thank you for your opinion its always good to hear views from military experts. The goals of US have not been achieved have they? I don't care how much US has overwhelmed the enemy, the side of picture I am seeing is that it is not winning them the war. So whose tactics are better? you can argue about the constraints and limitations US has but so is the case with Taliban. They dont have equipment, yet they are coming out on top... or so it appears! What good is the modern military then in comparison to these Talibans!?

U get me ?

 

[Icarus]

How wd u react in US invaded Pakistan?

If Pakistan was being ruled by a fundamentalist regime who's entire Dogma revolved around pressing the population through brutal use of force, crushing opposition through violence, world domination and exporting drugs that ruin societies just so they could make quick buck, I would do what the Afghans did, I would welcome them like heroes.

 

[Cynic Waheed]

HELLO!
Ever heard the word "COLLATERAL DAMAGE"??
This is the single largest reason for the survival of all evil such as taliban, hamas,hizbullah.
Think.

OK Einstein, thanks for your valuable input but i think u actually dint understand what i was trying to say. thanks though!

 

[Cynic Waheed]

If Pakistan was being ruled by a fundamentalist regime who's entire Dogma revolved around pressing the population through brutal use of force, crushing opposition through violence, world domination and exporting drugs that ruin societies just so they could make quick buck, I would do what the Afghans did, I would welcome them like heroes.

and if u werent ruled by such regime.. how wd u react then?

 

[Icarus]

and if u werent ruled by such regime.. how wd u react then?

Then the U.S would have no reason to attack me, if you think the Afghan Taliban are good people, here is some news from the frontline, THEY AREN'T......................

 

[Cynic Waheed]

Well you see there is a lot of difference between Afghan war and a typical conventional war.Let me give you example of Gulf War 1 - 1990 the main goal was to defeat Iraqi defenses and netueralize Iraqi Forces and they did it got the hell out of there but when you start talking about COIN that's where it gets messy.Another example but shameful example for US was 1971 Indian Army had clear objective and that was to take Dhaka and the conventional military did it.

thanks this is clearing things in my head now. so if the aim is to hit and run in the case of gulf war 1 these gadgets have its edge. But in the case of COIN they are worthless.. if am not wrong?

 

[M8R]

For COIN you have to use forces along with development and be nice with people.Look at the successful COIN campaign of Swat - It is by large clear now and even tourists are going there now and Army is extremely friendly with people.Army has constructed several mosques, hospitals etc in the area - That's how you win hearts and minds in COIN campaign.

 

[Cynic Waheed]

Then the U.S would have no reason to attack me, if you think the Afghan Taliban are good people, here is some news from the frontline, THEY AREN'T......................

I am not a Taliban sympathizer and don't support their brutal regime. That said however, I also do believe resistance against invasion is not illegal and everyone has a legitimate right to fight against it if his country is invaded.

 

[M8R]

I recommend you watch these videos re: Swat Campaign

 

[Icarus]

I am not a Taliban sympathizer and don't support their brutal regime. That said however, I also do believe resistance against invasion is not illegal and everyone has a legitimate right to fight against it if his country is invaded.

But with an over 80% approval rating among Afghans, the Americans are loved like they are saviours, and seriously, the Americans have done a lot of work to spruce up Afghanistan, they now have a functioning military, roads, hospitals, police, a justice system, freedom, the Afghans are perfectly comfortable with Americans, why can't we be happy for them to and let the Americans do what they are doing ?

 

[BATMAN]

I really thank you for your opinion its always good to hear views from military experts. The goals of US have not been achieved have they? I don't care how much US has overwhelmed the enemy, the side of picture I am seeing is that it is not winning them the war. So whose tactics are better? you can argue about the constraints and limitations US has but so is the case with Taliban. They dont have equipment, yet they are coming out on top... or so it appears! What good is the modern military then in comparison to these Talibans!?

U get me ?

You correctly said tactics can win war.
If i'm US general i can win this war in maximum two years.
I will exploit the advantage of land locked Afghanistan.
I will isolate them from all world... i'll see how they build IED or get buulets for their guns.
No indian consulate or disguised contractors... and no trust on northern alliance warlords who are more privy to Russians and indinas.
Logic is quite clear.....indian army have direct benift from prolonging this war and keep bleeding US army and using ANA against Pakistan.
I would rather ally with Pak army and together we sarround terrorists and keep hunting them one by one until they are dead or surrender in that limited area.

Hell for 10 bloody years Indian planes had been unloading explosives and arms in Afghanistan, which is than dumped along Pak afghan border.

So far we have recovered wepons made in Russia, India, US, Israel and Germany.
Isn't the supply chain so obvious?
I would immediately order Pakistan to stop indian trucks or send my soldiers ot inspect them at wahga border.
I would expel indian army from border areas of Pakistan which exactly are the hot beds of TTP.

What is happening is when Pak army make push against TTP they got evacuated by helis and loged in luxury camps just across the border, while in surprise move NATO abondon thier posts and never an explanation is given for such mystery moves.

US simply need to sarround Taliban together with Pak army and keep ANA and Indians away, from such operation.

 

[BATMAN]

I am not a Taliban sympathizer and don't support their brutal regime. That said however, I also do believe resistance against invasion is not illegal and everyone has a legitimate right to fight against it if his country is invaded.

As i said no individual or bunch of individuals can stand against the state. unless they are supported by a resourceful state.

 

[Old School]

There is no actual success story of a full fledged Hit and Run guerilla campaign aginst a regular military . Vietnam war was largely fought by North Vietnamese Army regulars. Same applies to the 1971 Mukti Bahini campaign in East Pakistan ( now Bangladesh) where Indian Army regulars took part right from the beginning under guerilla cover. Afghan Mujahedeen were no different. Regulars from 'some countries' conducted major operations under Mujahedeen cover. The defeat of the LTTE in Sri Lanka establishes my argument once again that if a guerilla group is not supported by a regular army in operations , the chance of success against a regular military is very low.