Without the Republic of China’s Contribution, WWII Would Have Taken a Different Course

[chauism]

I realise that the direct control of Chinese troops was always in Chinese hands, and Chiang's obsession with concentrating power in his own hands is not new to me. While I have refrained from mentioning this, for reasons that will be disclosed, at the beginning of my own study of military history, I was quite knowledgeable about the Second Sino-Japanese War, and the personal histories of the main leaders, including, of course, Chiang Kai Shek himself. That has not been worth mentioning here so far as it is 30 years and 2,000 kms away

This is not a very important point, the main one being that the Chinese soldier was a brave man, and not the wimpish kind of character that some accounts would have it. And I point that out in the context of the gallant comrades in arms that they proved to be, fighting shoulder to shoulder with the forefathers of those who formed today's Indian Army and Pakistani Army.



A literal picture and a very nasty remark by a Chinese member. My anger rises even as I think about it. I will point to it in a minute or two.

The picture is the picture in post #1.

The remark:

They were a US puppet. I watched documentaries about China from the 40s, before 1949 and they all have positive things to say about China. They even praised Generalissimo Chiang for his courage and fighting spirit that helped drove out the Japanese ! How hilarious is that

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/without-the-republic-of-china’s-contribution-wwii-would-have-taken-a-different-course.437862/#ixzz4Dhn3lXMg

Dear Joe, you should have learnt not to be anger that easily by those tiny remarks. Even CCP in Mainland now start to recognize the contribution KMT had made during WWII in mainstream media now. So it is kind naive at least for people to say such as KMT did nothing fighting the Japanese, it is very ungrateful to those KMT soldiers who did their best and died fighting for ROC against Japanese invaders.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dear Joe, you should have learnt not to be anger that easily by those tiny remarks. Even CCP in Mainland now start to recognize the contribution KMT had made during WWII in mainstream media now. So it is kind naive at least for people to say such as KMT did nothing fighting the Japanese, it is very ungrateful to those KMT soldiers who did their best and died fighting for ROC against Japanese invaders.

@chauism dear friend, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!!! I am really upset with you for disappearing like that. There are new people now, and they are ignorant, dogmatic and rude! (There are exceptions; on this thread, for instance, Genesis is very, very knowledgeable, and I personally agree with beijingwalker's somewhat detached point of view). I am now much older, unwell, and unable to tolerate this Really miss you very much.

 

[Jlaw]

Just on that point alone, I hope you see the irony.

Chiang ordered his defeated troops to retreat back into China via the mountains. Sun, an American educated soldier ordered his troops to go to India, he tried to talk his commanding officer Du to retreat with him to India. Du however, is a completely submissive to Chiang, he would retreat through the mountains.

Even Chiang's student Liao who also got further education in France through special favor from Chiang retreated with Sun to India that formed the new first and sixth army. This really shows how outrageous that decision is, even a loyal general to Chiang would do this.

Du knew the risks, Chiang knew the risks, but Chiang wanted no army of his outside of his control. Thousands died due to that decision.

While you praise Chinese solider's bravery in Burma, I hope you know, had two generals not disobeyed orders, there wouldn't be a X force to work with British Indian forces. So any criticism of Chiang is justified.

As to Indian forces, I know of their existence, but Chinese sources made little mention of them and even American and British sources made little reference to their actions, other than they exist. So I can't yet return the compliment, until further reading.

Save your breath. No point discussing China's history and internal affairs with foreigners. They can't read Chinese so they are only getting the western version of "Chinese history" as they see it.

Just let the non Chinese make the last post

 

[1R0N_M4N_XL]

Without the Republic of China’s Contribution, WWII Would Have Taken a Different Course

we haven't not forgotten.. we have a moral obligation to protect taiwan..

we give credit to the r.o.c/taiwan/kmt ..

cheers to our taiwan allies

 

[grey boy 2]

we haven't not forgotten.. we have a moral obligation to protect taiwan..

we give credit to the r.o.c/taiwan/kmt ..

cheers to our taiwan allies

Dear pinoy boy, perhaps you need to do a better job of hiding behind the American flag performing your usual meaningless China bashing
Finish your elementary school should be the 1st priority "ASAP"
And we Chinese sure doesn't need any WW-ll credits approval from a proud citizen of banana republic either

 

[beijingwalker]

we haven't not forgotten.. we have a moral obligation to protect taiwan..

we give credit to the r.o.c/taiwan/kmt ..

cheers to our taiwan allies

As long as Taiwn is still ROC and your obligation ends with the extent of your ability to project and maintain your power, which is declining and being replacing fast. Besides, how come your sacred obligation didn't make KMT hold the ground in mainland China and South Vietnam survive? Everyone can see how impotent you are to keep your obligations.

 

[3Kingdoms]

There was a era in Vietnam history which lasted for a millennium, called Chinese Domination. That is history, powers rise and fall and disappear... what matters is the situation like in your life time, luckily in my life time I see my country rising fast and racing to the top of the world.

'Chinese Domination' is Chinese recorded history, that's why the pomp title 'Domination'. You only need to dominate one time so explain why China dominated Vietnam first, second, third, fourth domination? Because each time you got a$$ woopin' the first time by girls.

You say what matters is our life-time History makes the present situation, that's why your thread is about ROC deciding the outcome of WW2. And I agree with you and so does grey boy2 because he promoted Rana Mitter pro KMT Forgotten Ally.

Mitter has observed that, ironically, today's China is closer to Chiang's vision than to Mao Zedong's. He argues that the Communists, since the 1980s, have essentially created the state envisioned by Chiang in the 1930s. Mitter concludes by writing that "one can imagine Chiang Kai-shek's ghost wandering round China today nodding in approval, while Mao's ghost follows behind him, moaning at the destruction of his vision".

On China - I'm sincerely happy for China

 

[beijingwalker]

'Chinese Domination' is Chinese recorded history, that's why the pomp title 'Domination'. You only need to dominate one time so explain why China dominated Vietnam first, second, third, fourth domination? Because each time you got a$$ woopin' the first time by girls.

The way you see it is that every time there is an end to those dominations , the way I see it is that those dominations keep coming back. Be ready for the next one. That's what the history works.

Mitter has observed that, ironically, today's China is closer to Chiang's vision than to Mao Zedong's. He argues that the Communists, since the 1980s, have essentially created the state envisioned by Chiang in the 1930s. Mitter concludes by writing that "one can imagine Chiang Kai-shek's ghost wandering round China today nodding in approval, while Mao's ghost follows behind him, moaning at the destruction of his vision".

On China - I'm sincerely happy for China

To be honest I don't really care about Mao or Chiang, this attitude may offend many of my fellow Chinese posters here, I only care about where China is now and where China will be going in the future.

 

[1R0N_M4N_XL]

As long as Taiwn is still ROC and your obligation ends with the extent of your ability to project and maintain your power, which is declining and being replacing fast. Besides, how come your sacred obligation didn't make KMT hold the ground in mainland China and South Vietnam survive? Everyone can see how impotent you are to keep your obligations.

during ww2 U.S was fighting Japan,Germany, Italy and racing against Russia. We got our hands full.

most american politician regret china falling to communism. that's why we had the ''domino effect theory'' which led the U.S to take part in the vietnam war.

the reason why america pulled out of vietnam war was because it had ''no or little support from home''.

we don't have a defense treaty with taiwan & vietnam but only a moral obligation. there's a difference between the two.

the taiwan ( one china policy) is very complicated.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

during ww2 U.S was fighting Japan,Germany, Italy and racing against Russia. We got our hands full.

most american politician regret china falling to communism. that's why we had the ''domino effect theory'' which led the U.S to take part in the vietnam war.

the reason why america pulled out of vietnam war was because it had ''no or little support from home''.

we don't have a defense treaty with taiwan & vietnam but only a moral obligation. there's a difference between the two.

the taiwan ( one china policy) is very complicated.

Moral obligation? The U.S.A?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Its all self interest my friend, nothing more and nothing less. Moral obligations go out the window when the real world is involved. Will the U.S.A defend Taiwan out of moral obligations? Im calling bull shit.

Will the U.S.A support Taiwan to undermine China in the far east thus serving her self interest of hegemony? Maybe.

 

[1R0N_M4N_XL]

Moral obligation? The U.S.A?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Its all self interest my friend, nothing more and nothing less. Moral obligations go out the window when the real world is involved. Will the U.S.A defend Taiwan out of moral obligations? Im calling bull shit.

Will the U.S.A support Taiwan to undermine China in the far east thus serving her self interest of hegemony? Maybe.

USA Does ''NoT'' have a defense treaty with with taiwan..

china already tried to invade taiwan before but it back off when amerca 7th fleet sent 2 aircraft carriers.. and china could do not nothing.

 

[retaxis]

China can play the long game. China has been around for 5000years and US has been around for 400years. China can wait another century and US will be a country full of Mexicans/Blacks after the race/civil war in America. China doesn't have to fight today or tomorrow or even this century. America's debt and demographic problem will destroy themselves. Try talking about moral obligations when blacks and latinos start burning your country down. You better start investing in some 12 feet concrete walls ala south Africa/Brazil because thats where your headed mr. ironman

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

USA Does ''NoT'' have a defense treaty with with taiwan..

china already tried to invade taiwan before but it back off when amerca 7th fleet sent 2 aircraft carriers.. and china could do not nothing.

You used the words "moral obligation" in a serious discussion. Thats what Im calling you out for.

The U.S.A and Taiwan did have a defence treaty that ended in 1979 called the 'Sino American Mutual Defence Treaty'. This was replaced by the 'Taiwan Relations Act' from 1979 - current.

Section of Taiwan relation act:

"Military provisions[edit]
The Taiwan Relations Act potentially requires the U.S. to intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan. The act states that "the United States will make available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense services in such quantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capabilities". However, the decision about the nature and quantity of defense services that America will provide to Taiwan is to be determined by the President and Congress. America's policy has been called "strategic ambiguity" and it is designed to dissuade Taiwan from a unilateral declaration of independence, and to dissuade the PRC from unilaterally unifying Taiwan with the PRC.

The act further stipulates that the United States will "consider any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means, including by boycotts or embargoes, a threat to the peace and security of the Western Pacific area and of grave concern to the United States".

This act also requires the United States "to provide Taiwan with arms of a defensive character", and "to maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan." Successive U.S. administrations have sold arms to Taiwan in compliance with the Taiwan Relations Act despite demands from the PRC that the U.S. follow the legally non-binding Three Joint Communiques and the U.S. government's proclaimed One-China policy (which differs from the PRC's One-China Principle)."

Its deliberately ambiguous and open ended in regards to defending Taiwan, like a lawyer covering his clients ***.


Let me tell you this though - The USA government have a "moral obligation" not to get their citizens involved in a war with a country 1000 times stronger than the ragged towel wearing militants your military is accustomed to fighting.

 

[chauism]

@chauism dear friend, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!!! I am really upset with you for disappearing like that. There are new people now, and they are ignorant, dogmatic and rude! (There are exceptions; on this thread, for instance, Genesis is very, very knowledgeable, and I personally agree with beijingwalker's somewhat detached point of view). I am now much older, unwell, and unable to tolerate this Really miss you very much.

Dear Joe, I am really sorry about my absence at this forum. It is just that at some point of time here I came to realize that this forum has become a place not suitable for serious discussion. What is the point for debate when no one is willing to listen? You should know that most people here have an arrogant and condescending attitude whenever they go into a topic here especially if the topic is sensitive. So it would be a waste of anyone's time for me at least to share my opinion here. For me every post I wrote here would cost me at least 20 minutes of time doing research and facts finding before I write down anything.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dear Joe, I am really sorry about my absence at this forum. It is just that at some point of time here I came to realize that this forum has become a place not suitable for serious discussion. What is the point for debate when no one is willing to listen? You should know that most people here have an arrogant and condescending attitude whenever they go into a topic here especially if the topic is sensitive. So it would be a waste of anyone's time for me at least to share my opinion here. For me every post I wrote here would cost me at least 20 minutes of time doing research and facts finding before I write down anything.

I was very sorry to read your post, dear chauism, and to realise that you were correct. I understand what you mean, and of late, am increasingly exhausted putting up hard fact, only to find that the replies are emotional outpourings of prejudice and hyper-nationalism.

After reading your post, I cannot blame you.

I shall miss you and our conversations. Perhaps it is time to move on.