With eye on Turkey, Arabs look to mend ties with Al Assad

[HannibalBarca]

ISIS/AQ/Al-Nusra etc. were already present long before Russia intervened. They controlled a huge landmass stretching from the western outskirts of Baghdad all the way to Daraa.
The same elements were hunting down/killing/fighting against the genuine Syrian opposition. The Syrian Sunni Arab "nationalistic/patriotic" element if you like with "moderate Islamists" being a part of that group as well. Or at least the two parties were not at conflict as the ISIS/AQ maniacs who did everything in their power to destroy the Syrian opposition and scare everyone away from the Syrian opposition due to successful Al-Assad regime propaganda of either me or ISIS.

I don't understand your last sentence, and I don't agree that Turkey was passive. In fact they were the most active part in the neighborhood since day 1 due to simple geography and being the strongest neighboring state of Syria with an unstable Iraq next door, a Jordan with not much room for maneuver and Lebanon is best not to mention either. They alongside their allies in Qatar (the pro-MB axis) used the most energy media wise and money/logistic wise to try to remove Al-Assad.

KSA's sole objective was to remove a pro-Mullah regime if given the opportunity. So everyone involved had/have their own visions. Russia might be on the same side as the Mullah's on paper but in reality they have totally different end goals, ideologies and have been clashing for years with power struggles left and right until mostly the Russian/Al-Assad ("Arab nationalist" side won over the Shia/Alawi pan-Islamist part closely allied to Hezbollah and the Mullah's).

ISIS came later on...
AQ had little power(2011-2012/13... The one who had more power... are what the west call "Moderate Rebels"... who most of time were aligned with previous FSA...
"Radicalism" Increased when they begun to retreat against ASSad/RU forces... that started with funds being limited/stopped.

I remember Turkey in the 2011-2012 period... they were mostly observers... who only participated at the basic level... Like Aid/Equipment transfer from US/Arabs to Syrian rebels.
They started an active role when Rebel groups where underfunded/losing... Turkey stepped in... and switched the "Influence" game...
But you can see a difference with the North and South Rebels... around 2012-2013... Where Turkey couldn't fill the void (Damascus/Daraa region)

I believe Turkey jumped in at such extreme with the main idea that ASSad will fall if Rebels get enough "Support"... Till RU stepped in and ISIS begun to expend...

My point is... Rebels were Mostly NAtionalist... And where Arab gov had an opportunity to succeed in keeping their support to them... But unfortunately Other hotspots took away the focus... till someone else took the seat of influence and therefore begun to shape it in the way he wished...

In the End ASSad is not the answer... and Syria is already a mess... so let it be/finish and then let's hope Arabs are back to recollect what is left... And not siding with the wrong side... in hope to save... something that is worthless to them and the region... and lose the support of Millions of Arabs in the process...

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

I don’t think the ‘clearing’ was possibly meant to be what we think it was. Obviously Turkish members will speak more, and some have criticised it for not going far enough.

But they were the only ones to send a message to the US who was quietly setting up a YPG state within Arab lands, all the while the Arab League didn’t even criticise the US’ presence in Syria. There is no question that since their operation, Syria is calmer & stabilised somewhat.

Are you sure, because I remember many statements from Arab leaderships, the Arab League etc. condemning the actions of SOME Kurdish terrorists in Eastern Syria. I also know that KSA and other Arab states are actively helping the numerous Arab tribes in Eastern Syria and helping set up local armies. Many having successfully chased those Kurdish terrorists away. Those Kurds will never succeed, that area of Syria is majority (vastly) Arab and the Kurds are being outbred while we speak. The US "betrayed" the Kurds and for all I care Turkey and Kurds can fight all they want to, my focus is on what I wrote about already.

And quite frankly, it is a bit of a joke, as the same Erdogan/AKP/Turkey has been bankrolling Barzanistan (the so-called KRG - another region that is flooded with Arabs and will continue to be flooded) and keeping it alive to much annoyance of Baghdad. There is no difference between PKK, YPG and Barzanistan. They are part of the same "trinity" which stands for an imaginary Kurdistan at the expanse of Arab, Turkish, Assyrian etc. lands. So if Erdogan/AKP had been consistent in their stances, I would have saluted and supported their stance on this topic but that is not the case, I am afraid.

ISIS came later on...
AQ had little power(2011-2012/13... The one who had more power... are what the west call "Moderate Rebels"... who most of time were aligned with previous FSA...
"Radicalism" Increased when they begun to retreat against ASSad/RU forces... that started with funds being limited/stopped.

I remember Turkey in the 2011-2012 period... they were mostly observers... who only participated at the basic level... Like Aid/Equipment transfer from US/Arabs to Syrian rebels.
They started an active role when Rebel groups where underfunded/losing... Turkey stepped in... and switched the "Influence" game...
But you can see a difference with the North and South Rebels... around 2012-2013... Where Turkey couldn't fill the void (Damascus/Daraa region)

I believe Turkey jumped in at such extreme with the main idea that ASSad will fall if Rebels get enough "Support"... Till RU stepped in and ISIS begun to expend...

My point is... Rebels were Mostly NAtionalist... And where Arab gov had an opportunity to succeed in keeping their support to them... But unfortunately Other hotspots took away the focus... till someone else took the seat of influence and therefore begun to shape it in the way he wished...

In the End ASSad is not the answer... and Syria is already a mess... so let it be/finish and then let's hope Arabs are back to re-collect what is left... And not siding with the wrong side... in hope to get save... something that is worthless to them and the region...

ISIS = Islamic state of Iraq was already active in Syria in 2013. Long before Russia intervened. As were Al-Nusra and their predecessors.

It was actually movements of people from Iraq into Syria, later expanding and creating an entire infrastructure, that dealt the final blow to the original Syrian opposition who now had to fight on two fronts.

Actually that is a bit wrong as the entire border lands of Eastern Syria and Western Iraq are fluid and the same people (clans and tribes) live on both sides of the border, smuggling was/is very common and even prior to the US invasion in 2003, the Syrian regime used that region of Syria as a gateway to support local Iraqi insurgents against the US and also facilitated the travel of Arab/non-Arab foreign fighters into Iraq, including members of AQ in Iraq under Al-Zarqawi.

All that infrastructure that was built up for almost 1 decade, before the Syrian revolution began in 2011, was already there.

My stance is not about Al-Assad as I wrote and I don't disagree with you.

Anyway don't forget the political element here and how Arab regimes look at "popular uprisings" and "popular rule". Not very favorable unless it suits them. Which explains the divisions within the Syrian opposition that I alluded to initially of different interests.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Ankara’s invasion of Syria and meddling in Libya’s war prompts call for action

"Damascus: Several indicators are coming out of Damascus, signaling that a rapprochement with the Arab World might be in the works, aimed at countering Turkish occupation of Syrian lands.

Both Syria and moderate states in the region have a common enemy in the Qatar-based, Turkish supported Muslim Brotherhood, a terrorist organization outlawed in Riyadh, Abu Dhabi, Cairo, and Damascus.

In addition to jointly criticizing the Turkish invasion of northeast Syria, which started on October 9, 2019, these Arab capitals aim at luring Syria away from the Iranian orbit.

Turkey’s expansionism in the Arab World, its support for the Egyptian Brotherhood, and its recent backing of the Brotherhood-affiliated government of Fayez Al Sarraj in Libya have raised eyebrows throughout the region, highlighting the need for joint action against Ankara’s territorial and political ambitions.

“A rapprochement with Damascus would be hitting two birds with one stone,” said the London-based Syrian analyst Danny Makki.

Speaking to Gulf News, he added: “Soft power works and it can be used to make Syria a huge ally for the Arab World in its hall of mirrors clash with Turkey and Iran.”

Re-opening of the Saudi embassy
On December 6, 2019, Russia Today ran a story saying that renovation of the Saudi embassy in Damascus was currently underway, claiming that it was “just a matter of time” before it re-opens.


No denial or confirmation was issued either by Syrian or Saudi officials.

Ten days later, the Saudi daily Okaz ran another report, this time saying that “indicators” were showing that the nearly ten-year Arab boycott of Syrian President Bashar Al Assad was coming to an end.

Syrian officials in Riyadh
Coinciding with both reports was a visit to Riyadh by a delegation from the state-affiliated Syrian Journalists Syndicate, headed by its president Mousa Abdul Nour.

It was the first visit of Syrian officials to the Saudi capital since bilateral relations were suspended in August 2011.

It could not have happened without an official invitation from Saudi Arabia, and approval from Syrian authorities.

Since February 2019, state-run Syrian media has visibly changed note on Saudi Arabia, muzzling all previous criticism of the kingdom.

Its television, websites, news agency and newspapers have muzzled all criticism of Saudi Arabia, focusing only on Qatar and Turkey as the source of all evil in the Arab World, which was music to the ears of Saudi officials.

Since assuming office last October, Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal Ibn Farhan Al Saud has refrained from criticizing or even mentioning Syria in any of his speeches.

A rapprochement-in-progress
Signs of cautious normalization started appearing in September 2018, when Bahraini Foreign Minister Khaled Bin Ahmad Al Khalifa warmly embraced his Syrian counterpart Walid Al Mouallem at the UN General Assembly, live on television.

Bahrain's foreign minister Sheikh Khalid Bin Ahmad Al Khalifa (right) with Syrian foreign minister Walid Mu'allem

That footage was first aired not by Syrian television but by the Saudi channel, Al Arabiya.

The very next day, the Bahraini Minister appeared on Al Arabiya, saying that Arab states would never allow Syria’s future to be monopolized by non-Arab regional states, in clear reference to Iran and Turkey.

He added: “We deal with the Syrian government and not those who are trying to bring it down,” a clear reference to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The UAE embassy in Damascus
Then, in December 2018, the UAE re-opened its embassy in Damascus, followed suit by Jordan and Bahrain.

Then came the re-opening of the Syrian-Jordanian borders, throwing an economic lifeline to Damascus while hoping that this would reduce its dependence on Tehran.

Earlier this month, the UAE Charge d’Affaires in Damascus, Abdul Hakim Al Nouaimi held a reception on the UAE National Day, attended by Syrian Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal Mekdad.

Raising the ire of the Muslim Brotherhood, Nouami said that Abu Dhabi was hoping that calm is restored to Syria “under the wise leadership of President Bashar Al Assad.”

Mekdad reciprocated, saying: “Syria will never forget the UAE standing by Syria’s side in its war on terrorism.”

Return to Arab League conditional
Several Arab countries, headed by Iraq, Algeria, and Lebanon, have been lobbying to restore Syria’s membership in the Arab League, suspended at the start of the conflict back in 2011.
Saudi Arabia has reportedly not objected, with the specific objective of bringing the war-torn country back into the Arab family of nations, in order to minimize Iranian influence.

The strongest objection came from Qatar, which blocked a comeback ahead of the 2019 Arab summit in Tunisia.

The League has made it clear that there are two conditions that Damascus has to abide by before its membership is restored: distancing itself from Iran and implementing UNSCR 2254, which calls for the launch of a constitutional process, followed by election to end the Syrian conflict."

With eye on Turkey, Arabs look to mend ties with Al Assad

So what was the purpose of that whole war?

 

[HannibalBarca]

Are you sure, because I remember many statements from Arab leaderships, the Arab League etc. condemning the actions of SOME Kurdish terrorists in Eastern Syria. I also know that KSA and other Arab states are actively helping the numerous Arab tribes in Eastern Syria and helping set up local armies. Many having successfully chased those Kurdish terrorists away. Those Kurds will never succeed, that area of Syria is majority (vastly) Arab and the Kurds are being outbred while we speak. The US "betrayed" the Kurds and for all I care Turkey and Kurds can fight all they want to, my focus is on what I wrote about already.

And quite frankly, it is a bit of a joke, as the same Erdogan/AKP/Turkey has been bankrolling Barzanistan (the so-called KRG - another region that is flooded with Arabs and will continue to be flooded) and keeping it alive to much annoyance of Baghdad. There is no difference between PKK, YPG and Barzanistan. They are part of the same "trinity" which stands for an imaginary Kurdistan at the expanse of Arab, Turkish, Assyrian etc. lands. So if Erdogan/AKP had been consistent in their stances, I would have saluted and supported their stance on this topic but that is not the case, I am afraid.



ISIS = Islamic state of Iraq was already active in Syria in 2013. Long before Russia intervened. As were Al-Nusra and their predecessors.

It was actually movements of people from Iraq into Syria, later expanding and creating an entire infrastructure, that dealt the final blow to the original Syrian opposition who now had to fight on two fronts.

Actually that is a bit wrong as the entire border lands of Eastern Syria and Western Iraq are fluid and the same people (clans and tribes) live on both sides of the border, smuggling was/is very common and even prior to the US invasion in 2003, the Syrian regime used that region of Syria as a gateway to support local Iraqi insurgents against the US and also facilitated the travel of Arab/non-Arab foreign fighters into Iraq, including members of AQ in Iraq under Al-Zarqawi.

All that infrastructure that was built up for almost 1 decade, before the Syrian revolution began in 2011, was already there.

My stance is not about Al-Assad as I wrote and I don't disagree with you.

Anyway don't forget the political element here and how Arab regimes look at "popular uprisings" and "popular rule". Not very favorable unless it suits them. Which explains the divisions within the Syrian opposition that I alluded to initially of different interests.

ISIS came later on in the Syrian conflict... Ofc they existed before that...even though the Syrian episode transformed them...
The Opposition do have differences... but they had a common goal... The End of ASSad.

My take is simple... for unity you need to clean the group that you wish to use for X or Y expansion... Accepting anyone just for the sake of growing/feeling similarities is the worst that could happen.
Even though it may not look good in term of Success/influence... but in the long run, it will pay.

So yes, Some Arab gov are willing to support what could backstab them tmrw... just to fulfill a short term view (ie anti-MB/TR stance). That will end up not only remove everything they worked for... but could push them against a wall that they weren't prepared for...

But since some Arab gov, and in particular UAE... who are behaving like a brat... couldn't wait or worked with both parties in hope to grow their influence... instead they took the confrontational way...
And now... Other Arab gov have a side to choose or to let down UAE and MAKE a better foreign policy in that matter by engaging in de-escalation and retaking an influential position to TR... (ie cutting the grass under their foot.) if they really want to do something...

 

[bsruzm]

So what was the purpose of that whole war?

Some Arab's...

Are you sure, because I remember many statements from Arab leaderships, the Arab League etc. condemning the actions of SOME Kurdish terrorists in Eastern Syria. I also know that KSA and other Arab states are actively helping the numerous Arab tribes in Eastern Syria and helping set up local armies. Many having successfully chased those Kurdish terrorists away. Those Kurds will never succeed,

"The Kurdish Syrian Defence Forces (previously referred to as the YPG) currently control the majority of the nation’s oil fields"
Saudi Aramco team arrive in Syria’s oil fields

That contradicts your wishes.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

ISIS came later on in the Syrian conflict... Ofc they existed before that...even though the Syrian episode transformed them...
The Opposition do have differences... but they had a common goal... The End of ASSad.

My take is simple... for unity you need to clean the group that you wish to use for X or Y expansion... Accepting anyone just for the sake of growing/feeling similarities is the worst that could happen.
Even though it may not look good in term of Success/influence... but in the long run, it will pay.

So yes, Some Arab gov are willing to support what could backstab them tmrw... just to fulfill a short term view (ie anti-MB/TR stance). That will end up not only remove everything they worked for... but could push them against a wall that they weren't prepared for...

But since some Arab gov, and in particular UAE... who are behaving like a brat... couldn't wait or worked with both parties in hope to grow their influence... instead they took the confrontational way...
And now... Other Arab gov have a side to choose or to let down UAE and MAKE a better foreign policy in that matter by engaging in de-escalation and retaking an influential position to TR... (ie cutting the grass under their foot.) if they really want to do something...

We are both repeating the same thing and agreeing with the causes of what prevented the original Syrian opposition from succeeding however there was a strong and sizable presence of ISIS/AQ/Al-Nusra/other maniacs in Syria a long time before Russia, at least before Russia intervened so that part of the history we cannot agree on.

I don't think anything can be done and I believe that Al-Assad is here to stay for the foreseeable future and it seems that the Arab regimes have come to terms with that and are restoring ties to what they were before while gaining the necessary influence to influence Syria in a more correct direction in the future.

The whole part that I wrote about when Russia leaves, Arabs will most likely fill the gap and throw the last Mullah elements/remnants away from Syria to the great joy of the Al-Assad regime and that help will be repaid with concessions and greater access to the Syrian market. Only the Arabs (in the region) can afford to rebuild Syria so Al-Assad is not stupid.

If somehow the Al-Assad regime can be thrown in the dust bin eventually (after gaining his trust) the better. Groom a successor of his from within and measure that successor of full support if he does the necessary changes once Assad is gone/removed/dead. The only option available right now given the politics of today since neither party on the opposition side was brave enough to go all in in Syria like Russia did to change the tide.

Some Arab's...

"The Kurdish Syrian Defence Forces (previously referred to as the YPG) currently control the majority of the nation’s oil fields"
Saudi Aramco team arrive in Syria’s oil fields

The reality is, names aside, that those regions are in control of local Arabs. There are no ethnic Kurds in those regions and I don't take Al-Masdar seriously as a news source. Might as well use Piss-TV or Sputnik or Daily Sahab but I applaud the news if true as Arab ressources should be in Arab hands. The locals support it and other kind of help/support.

 

[bsruzm]

The reality is, names aside, that those regions are in control of local Arabs.

Why are you fooling yourself? Arabic people aren't in charge in US held areas, in Syria.

That doesn't seem to me "in control of local Arabs":

"The terrorist group raided a refugee camp which hosts thousands of families in Abriha village in the eastern outskirts of Deir Ez-Zour."
YPG/PKK kills civilian after death threats

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Why are you fooling yourself? Arabic people aren't in charge in US held areas, in Syria.

That doesn't seem to me "in control of local Arabs":

"The terrorist group raided a refugee camp which hosts thousands of families in Abriha village in the eastern outskirts of Deir Ez-Zour."
YPG/PKK kills civilian after death threats

Is this a joke? Kurds are limited to a tiny corner of Syria. Mostly the border regions of Turkey. They are not present in regions where Arab states are supporting the local Arab clans and tribes (locals in other words). This YPG or whatever they call themselves, many of their members are local Arabs.

Where are the Kurds in Palmyra, Deir ez-Zoor, Raqqah, Abu Kamal, Mayadin etc.?

I did not click on your source but that just proves what I am saying namely that Arabs and Kurds are at odds in certain parts of Syria and that Arab support for them is necessary. But you are free to spin it into some kind of imaginary support for non-existent Kurds. I have read, in the past years, many funny stories from your media, Daily Sahab, etc. of many Saudi Arabians, Emiratis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Bahrainis etc. turning into Kurds and magically hiding under every Kurd in the region while fighting their own brethren that they have always supported since the conflict (civil war) began in Syria. But ok, carry on.

 

[bsruzm]

I have read, in the past years, many funny stories from your media, Daily Sahab, etc. of many Saudi Arabians, Emiratis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Bahrainis etc. turning into Kurds and magically hiding under every Kurd in the region while fighting their own brethren that they have always supported since the conflict (civil war) began in Syria. But ok, carry on.

#saudiwithkurdistan

 

[dani92]

Arab revolutions made many countries week and easy prey for outside interference but the good thing is we know the true colors of erdogan and khamanie thanks to these revolutions.

When respect is lost... it's over...
ASSad reconciliation/peace is not-possible with 500+K death and 10Mil refugees...
YOu guys may think it's possible... and Some Arab gov also believe that... But The majority of Syrian do not... and THEY are the key... not what some Politician say or wish to do...

ASSad is willing to deal with anyone at this point...just to stay in power... Yesterday it was Iran... Hezb, then RU... and if having some Arabs on his side... he wouldn't be against it...
ASSad in itself is not the problem... the Whole ASSadist syst is the problem... YOu guys are Arabs... and I believe you guys read Arabic... then start to follow the Main Arabic Thinkers under The Regime... and we will see if you still got that "Reality"...

The basic thing for Unity... is to remove those who are willing to sell/bargain with loyalty... and ASSad is one of them... same for HAftar... You guys are for an Arabism... I am too... But NOT AT ANY COST...

In Syria... the Arab notion is long gone... it's an ideological one who took roots... And let's be clear... They see you guys as rotten as the MB...

The opinion of Syrians isn’t important just like Iraq it’s prove that the Middle Easterns don’t know what do do with democracy but instead they are better if they led by strongmen. In Iraq from 2003 until now people don’t know what to choose or agree on something the same with Libya and Egypt that’s why they can’t rule or lead themselves but instead they should be ruled and led by others like Hajjaj or Saddam. I would rather live in under secure prosperous dictatorship like Iraq in 1970s than under failed and corrupt democracy like Lebanon.

ISIS/AQ power came after a power void, when RU came in... therefore after the few beginning years of the revo... If RU didn't came in... ASSad would have been long gone... and no ISIS/AQ... since the Free Syrian Army back in the days were "Nationalist"... The Irony...

That's also why at that time Some Arab gov were funding those groups against ASSad/Iran influence... And such move pushed ASSad to use the "sectarian card" and the famous... " I fall and the Wahabi will be here" and" Shiia would be slaughtered"... and so on...

But The Yemen military crisis started... and fund mostly stopped... and here come the one who was absent since the beginning of the Syrian Crisis... Turkey... who filled the void... by Influence and equipments...

The so called Syrian revels started to kill eachothers and became mercenaries for turkey and Qatar in the end while Assad still in power while the Afghans and Libyan started to kill eachothers after the fall of qaddafi and najibullah. So you can imagine what Syria would be even without Assad.

Arabs should be thanking Turkey, after their Syrian operation to clear YPG the whole country is the calmest it has been for years, and the US presence has been diminished. If it was left to the GCC the US would have been paid to set up bases.

Actually it’s erDOGan who helped to creat Kurdish zone in Syria after he thought that Assad will fall like bin Ali, mubarak, or Qaddafi. Also it had to do with Qatari gas pipeline but eraDOGan didn’t think that the war will last long and Iran and Russia and China will not let Assad fall now thanks to him there is another Kurdish region on his border before that it was only on Kurdish region on his border witch is in Iraq.

 

[anatolia]

Araps here does not even worth to respond. they had no idea whats going on..all they care is to fail Turkey ...you guys not muslim nor human.. shame for your own kind..just a photos what you support..maybe you would have shame yourself when you see those Araps kids killed just becouse they are sunni muslim... i never seen such a stupid arabs in my life like you guys ..

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Arab revolutions made many countries week and easy prey for outside interference but the good thing is we know the true colors of erdogan and khamanie thanks to these revolutions.


The opinion of Syrians isn’t important just like Iraq it’s prove that the Middle Easterns don’t know what do do with democracy but instead they are better if they led by strongmen. In Iraq from 2003 until now people don’t know what to choose or agree on something the same with Libya and Egypt that’s why they can’t rule or lead themselves but instead they should be ruled and led by others like Hajjaj or Saddam. I would rather live in under secure prosperous dictatorship like Iraq in 1970s than under failed and corrupt democracy like Lebanon.


The so called Syrian revels started to kill eachothers and became mercenaries for turkey and Qatar in the end while Assad still in power while the Afghans and Libyan started to kill eachothers after the fall of qaddafi and najibullah. So you can imagine what Syria would be even without Assad.


Actually it’s erDOGan who helped to creat Kurdish zone in Syria after he thought that Assad will fall like bin Ali, mubarak, or Qaddafi. Also it had to do with Qatari gas pipeline but eraDOGan didn’t think that the war will last long and Iran and Russia and China will not let Assad fall now thanks to him there is another Kurdish region on his border before that it was only on Kurdish region on his border witch is in Iraq.

Agree with the first part but the part about "democracy" (direct rule), we disagree with here brother.

Modern democracy is a fairly recent Western construct. It needed centuries of failure, practice, 1000's of tyrants, failed governments, blood (WW1 and WW2 killed 100 million people alone, mostly Europeans), 1000's of war (no continent has seen more war and bloodshed than neighboring Europe). So to expect those Arab countries to have mastered that art within less than 10-15 years is unrealistic, or in the case of Lebanon slightly longer, but let us be honest here, Lebanon has been a semi-failed state for a very long time due to the political system and segregation in place after the Lebanese Civil War.

A strongman is only good as long as he and the system behind him, is effective. Think about GCC, China and pre-Saddam Iraq and early part of Saddam's rule. Or the first part of Gaddafi's rule before he turned insane.

People forget that Arab/Semitic societies and culture had many elements of what you would consider direct rule/participation and elements of democracy many millennia ago. Strong communal and family bonds that foster strong cooperation (if united) etc. The Majlis is a great living example of this great tradition.

I would go as far and say that system is not really important, it is more about how effective if is and what it can achieve while ensuring a stable, successful state and population that is largely content and moving forward.

No man-made system is perfect.

Let us take Kuwait as an example. It is almost a democracy (scores really high on most parameters in this regard, especially comparing to non-Western countries) with a constitutional monarch and numerous political party. Look how ineffective that system is compared to say KSA, Oman, Qatar and UAE. Jordan next door faces something similar.

Won't even mention Iraq as that is self-explanatory, to my great regret and that of millions of people.

Araps here does not even worth to respond. they had no idea whats going on..all they care is to fail Turkey ...you guys not muslim nor human.. shame for your own kind..just a photos what you support..maybe you would have shame yourself when you see those Araps kids killed just becouse they are sunni muslim... i never seen such a stupid arabs in my life like you guys ..View attachment 595026

I don't know what is wrong with PDF but I have the feeling that half of the users do not understand what is being written. Remove that photo, not everyone here is a fan of looking at dead innocent children to make a quick, cheap and obvious point, as if any of the Arab users in this thread are fans of Al-Assad and his regime. Post reported and against forum rules.

 

[anatolia]

what about this guy his another child killed in attack when he was going to bury his son in syria just2 days ago..you say i am the one who makes cheap point....good luck with your big large glory aRab empire

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

what about this guy he lost his another child when he was going to bury his son in syria just2 days ago..you say i am the one who makes cheap point....good luck with your big large glory aRab empireView attachment 595048

I am not sure, although I suspect it based on your two posts in this thread, that you most likely have difficulties understanding English or what has been written in this thread, but I suggest to reread the posts and understand the key/main points of what was written or the topic of discussion. A friendly advice.

Also, this might be shocking to you as well, but in civil wars innocents die from all parties of the civil war. There is no need to be selective here. As a human, Arab and Muslim, I feel the pain of every Syrian family that have lost innocent loved ones, regardless of who did the killings.

Anyway I am not interested in cheap trolling or cheap hidden insults such as Arap. Not very difficult to write Turd instead of Turk for instance.

 

[dani92]

Agree with the first part but the part about "democracy" (direct rule), we disagree with here brother.

Modern democracy is a fairly recent Western construct. It needed centuries of failure, practice, 1000's of tyrants, failed governments, blood (WW1 and WW2 killed 100 million people alone, mostly Europeans), 1000's of war (no continent has seen more war and bloodshed than neighboring Europe). So to expect those Arab countries to have mastered that art within less than 10-15 minutes is unrealistic.

A strongman is only good as long as he and the system behind him, is effective. Think about GCC, China and pre-Saddam Iraq and early part of Saddam's rule. Or the first part of Gaddafi's rule before he turned insane.

People forget that Arab/Semitic societies and culture had many elements of what you would consider direct rule/participation and elements of democracy many millennia ago. Strong communal and family bonds that foster strong cooperation (if united) etc. The Majlis is a great living example of this great tradition.

I would go as far and say that system is not really important, it is more about how effective if is and what it can achieve while ensuring a stable, successful state and population that is largely content and moving forward.

No man-made system is perfect.

Let us take Kuwait as an example. It is almost a democracy with a constitutional monarch and numerous political party. Look how ineffective that system is compared to say KSA, Oman, Qatar and UAE. Same story with Bahrain to an extent.



I don't know what is wrong with PDF but I have the feeling that half of the users do not understand what is being written. Remove that photo, not everyone here is a fan of looking at dead innocent children to make a quick, cheap and obvious point, as if any of the Arab users in this thread are fans of Al-Assad and his regime. Post reported and against forum rules.

Indeed there are many types of democracy. I think the obsolete dictatorships doesn’t work in the Middle East neither the western style democracy I think the best thing is democracy or shura between the elders of the society who to make laws without direct participation from the population like the Jewish rabbinic councils during the Roman period or quraish tribe where the didn’t have a single leader but many elders in charge of the tribe affairs without the direct inference from the rest of the tribe members or the rashidun system and the Egyptian mamluk system where the sultan was chosen by emirs and didn't inherit power from his father or uncle for most of the time.