With China as its mentor, Pakistan triples arms exports - Reach $1Billion annually!

[doorstar]

If our drone industry has anything to say about it, they'd tell you China is an aggressive competitor and will never let Pakistani goods outshine its own.

To up our exports, we need modern products, and the most feasible way to develop those is to partner with countries with whom we either have synergies, who need development funding, or need economies of scale. In other words, Turkey, Ukraine, South Africa, Brazil, Czech Republic, etc.

China won't but Turkey will (just like it delivered Atak)? has it left NATO already? I missed that historic event.

 

[MM_Haider]

ISLAMABAD -- Pakistan, known as a major importer of weapons from China and the United States, is poised to significantly expand its arms exports, with an eventual goal of selling $1 billion worth of defense equipment every year.

A senior Pakistani government official told the Nikkei Asian Review that arms exports exceeded $210 million in the fiscal year through June. The total represents a significant increase from the approximately $100 million in arms sales two years earlier.

Five years earlier, another official noted, Pakistan's defense exports came to approximately $60 million.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the uptrend is reflective of Pakistan's drive for greater weapons self-sufficiency. They declined to provide further details of what is driving the increase.

Pakistan officials in general do not share figures related to national defense or associated matters like types of weapons and export destinations.

China has been playing a big role in Pakistani arms production. Together, China and Pakistan have manufactured JF-17 "Thunder" fighter jets.

"The JF-17 has helped Pakistan lay the groundwork for self-sufficiency," said retired Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a former Pakistan military commander and defense analyst. According to Masood, China has also helped Pakistan produce tanks. In addition, China has supported Pakistan's air force through the JF-17 project and its navy with assistance in building warships and submarines. "Now," Masood said, "Pakistan is seeking to tap export markets."

There is no specific arms export target for the coming years, but eventually Islamabad would like to reach that $1 billion threshold.

In 2016, Pakistan signed a deal with Myanmar for the sale of 16 JF-17 fighters. The dollar value of the contract has not been publicly revealed, but officials privately have said it was for approximately $400 million, including spare parts.

Pakistan has also sold three JF-17s to Nigeria.

There have been other defense deals: In 2017, Turkey contracted to buy 52 Super Mushshak training aircraft. A year later, Ankara agreed to buy 1,000 PK-83 general purpose bombs.

Analysts say collaboration with China has helped Pakistan improve its ability to produce advanced weapons. "Pakistan has graduated well beyond just a manufacturer of small weapons," a senior foreign ministry official said. "We are now looking at big-ticket items."

Nazir Hussain, a professor of international relations at Islamabad's Quaid-i-Azam University, said Pakistan now has strong potential to significantly raise its defense exports despite a global market that is dominated by the U.S. and other Western countries.

"Ultimately, Pakistan's access to some of these markets will be limited," Hussain said, adding that Islamabad will have to rely on countries with budget constraints, such as in Africa.

Pakistan this summer signed a new loan agreement with the International Monetary Fund that limits the country's military spending. Hussain said this kind of budgetary pressure will limit Pakistan's ability to provide loans that could help its trade partners pay for weapons over time.

Other sources with weapons-making experience say Pakistan can build a customer base by staying the course.

"When we ordered eight Chinese submarines, it was mainly because the quality of Chinese submarines had improved over time and the price was almost half that of European submarines," said a former Pakistan Navy admiral who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Buyers take time to accept that there are new and more affordable weapons systems on offer from new manufacturers like Pakistan.

"Ultimately, [buyers] will come around to looking at our products."

SOURCE: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/With-China-as-its-mentor-Pakistan-triples-arms-exports

Only one billion! that is a lot less than true potential!

 

[doorstar]

Only one billion!

is that more or less than zero? by the way when you need to go upstairs, do you start on the first rung or the top one?

 

[messiach]

Some good-for-NOTHING bureacrate speaking on condition of 'anonymity'. These parasitic babus who have contributed nothing to this country and have no role none atall in this country overall or defence/aeronautical development are now speaking on 'conditions of anonymity'. These should see the doors of gallows first before they open their vile mouths. @Oscar

ISLAMABAD -- Pakistan, known as a major importer of weapons from China and the United States, is poised to significantly expand its arms exports, with an eventual goal of selling $1 billion worth of defense equipment every year.

A senior Pakistani government official told the Nikkei Asian Review that arms exports exceeded $210 million in the fiscal year through June. The total represents a significant increase from the approximately $100 million in arms sales two years earlier.

Five years earlier, another official noted, Pakistan's defense exports came to approximately $60 million.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the uptrend is reflective of Pakistan's drive for greater weapons self-sufficiency. They declined to provide further details of what is driving the increase.

Pakistan officials in general do not share figures related to national defense or associated matters like types of weapons and export destinations.

China has been playing a big role in Pakistani arms production. Together, China and Pakistan have manufactured JF-17 "Thunder" fighter jets.

"The JF-17 has helped Pakistan lay the groundwork for self-sufficiency," said retired Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a former Pakistan military commander and defense analyst. According to Masood, China has also helped Pakistan produce tanks. In addition, China has supported Pakistan's air force through the JF-17 project and its navy with assistance in building warships and submarines. "Now," Masood said, "Pakistan is seeking to tap export markets."

There is no specific arms export target for the coming years, but eventually Islamabad would like to reach that $1 billion threshold.

In 2016, Pakistan signed a deal with Myanmar for the sale of 16 JF-17 fighters. The dollar value of the contract has not been publicly revealed, but officials privately have said it was for approximately $400 million, including spare parts.

Pakistan has also sold three JF-17s to Nigeria.

There have been other defense deals: In 2017, Turkey contracted to buy 52 Super Mushshak training aircraft. A year later, Ankara agreed to buy 1,000 PK-83 general purpose bombs.

Analysts say collaboration with China has helped Pakistan improve its ability to produce advanced weapons. "Pakistan has graduated well beyond just a manufacturer of small weapons," a senior foreign ministry official said. "We are now looking at big-ticket items."

Nazir Hussain, a professor of international relations at Islamabad's Quaid-i-Azam University, said Pakistan now has strong potential to significantly raise its defense exports despite a global market that is dominated by the U.S. and other Western countries.

"Ultimately, Pakistan's access to some of these markets will be limited," Hussain said, adding that Islamabad will have to rely on countries with budget constraints, such as in Africa.

Pakistan this summer signed a new loan agreement with the International Monetary Fund that limits the country's military spending. Hussain said this kind of budgetary pressure will limit Pakistan's ability to provide loans that could help its trade partners pay for weapons over time.

Other sources with weapons-making experience say Pakistan can build a customer base by staying the course.

"When we ordered eight Chinese submarines, it was mainly because the quality of Chinese submarines had improved over time and the price was almost half that of European submarines," said a former Pakistan Navy admiral who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Buyers take time to accept that there are new and more affordable weapons systems on offer from new manufacturers like Pakistan.

"Ultimately, [buyers] will come around to looking at our products."

SOURCE: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/With-China-as-its-mentor-Pakistan-triples-arms-exports

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

China won't but Turkey will (just like it delivered Atak)? has it left NATO already? I missed that historic event.

China did back out from buying 250 FC-1s, did it not? That was extra production work that could've gone to PAC and helped with boosting exports (albeit modestly, but noticeably). It was a cornerstone of the MoU, so China jumping ship was a shock for the PAF.

As for Turkey. TAI offered workshare to PAC as part of the ATAK project, and -- as of IDEAS 2018 anyways -- was willing to expand that to set-up jointly-funded training and MRO facilities for Turkish Aerospace's third-party sales.

But prior to all of that, TAI even contracted PAC to manufacture parts of the Anka UAV, even though the PAF never committed to buying the Anka. It was a gesture, and it put to use the production facilities PAC set-up for the Falco.

Can you name one Chinese offset or jointly-funded facility in a foreign country? I can tell you that Turkey's Aselsan has set-up shop in Kazakhstan, and that exploratory teams are coming to see what can work in Pakistan.

That's the difference. There's one country (China) that, from a defence industry point of view, doesn't need any co-production partners (as it can sustain the necessary economies-of-scale, R&D, etc alone), and others that do and, in turn, are openly asking for it.

As for NATO countries, there are opportunities (at more modest levels, perhaps in civil/non-military areas) there too. After all, Boeing did agree to an offset agreement with PAC wherein PAC could supply them parts (under the Boeing 777) contract.

 

[doorstar]

China did back out from buying 250 FC-1s, did it not? That was extra production work that could've gone to PAC and helped with boosting exports (albeit modestly, but noticeably).

As for Turkey. TAI offered workshare to PAC as part of the ATAK project, and -- as of IDEAS 2018 anyways -- was willing to expand that to set-up jointly-funded training and MRO facilities for Turkish Aerospace's third-party sales.

But prior to all of that, TAI even contracted PAC to manufacture parts of the Anka UAV, even though the PAF never committed to buying the Anka. It was a gesture, and it put to use the production facilities PAC set-up for the Falco.

Can you name one Chinese offset or jointly-funded facility in a foreign country? I can tell you that Turkey's Aselsan has set-up shop in Kazakhstan, and that exploratory teams are coming to see what can work in Pakistan.

That's the difference. There's one country (China) that, from a defence industry point of view, doesn't need any co-production partners (as it can sustain the necessary economies-of-scale, R&D, etc alone), and others that do and, in turn, are openly asking for it.

As for NATO countries, there are opportunities (at more modest levels, perhaps in civil/non-military areas) there too. After all, Boeing did agree to an offset agreement with PAC wherein PAC could supply them parts (under the Boeing 777) contract.

fantasies aside, the Turks will "co-operate" with Pakistan as much or as little as is permitted by the NATO collective!

 

[PakGuns]

China did back out from buying 250 FC-1s, did it not? That was extra production work that could've gone to PAC and helped with boosting exports (albeit modestly, but noticeably). It was a cornerstone of the MoU, so China jumping ship was a shock for the PAF.

As for Turkey. TAI offered workshare to PAC as part of the ATAK project, and -- as of IDEAS 2018 anyways -- was willing to expand that to set-up jointly-funded training and MRO facilities for Turkish Aerospace's third-party sales.

But prior to all of that, TAI even contracted PAC to manufacture parts of the Anka UAV, even though the PAF never committed to buying the Anka. It was a gesture, and it put to use the production facilities PAC set-up for the Falco.

Can you name one Chinese offset or jointly-funded facility in a foreign country? I can tell you that Turkey's Aselsan has set-up shop in Kazakhstan, and that exploratory teams are coming to see what can work in Pakistan.

That's the difference. There's one country (China) that, from a defence industry point of view, doesn't need any co-production partners (as it can sustain the necessary economies-of-scale, R&D, etc alone), and others that do and, in turn, are openly asking for it.

As for NATO countries, there are opportunities (at more modest levels, perhaps in civil/non-military areas) there too. After all, Boeing did agree to an offset agreement with PAC wherein PAC could supply them parts (under the Boeing 777) contract.

they pushed j 10s instead..

 

[beijingwalker]

As for Turkey. TAI offered workshare to PAC as part of the ATAK project, and -- as of IDEAS 2018 anyways -- was willing to expand that to set-up jointly-funded training and MRO facilities for Turkish Aerospace's third-party sales.

But prior to all of that, TAI even contracted PAC to manufacture parts of the Anka UAV, even though the PAF never committed to buying the Anka. It was a gesture, and it put to use the production facilities PAC set-up for the Falco.

Believe me, countries choose partners of different kinds by trials and errors, if Turkey had been proven as an able reliable defense partner, Pakistan would've been partnered with Turkey in defense and economy development long time ago due to common cultural and religious background. Turkey doesn't have comprehensive and complete defense industry which's able to produce weapons of all kinds and many if not most Turkish key defense equipment are sanctionable by the west, Pakistani government surely knows it very well.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Believe me, countries choose partners of different kinds by trials and errors, if Turkey had been proven as an able reliable defense partner, Pakistan would've been partnered with Turkey in defense and economy development long time ago due to common cultural and religious background. Turkey doesn't have comprehensive and complete defense industry which's able to produce weapons of all kinds and many if not most Turkish key defense equipment are sanctionable by the west, Pakistani government surely knows it very well.

Look, I'm talking about a very specific metric, production workshare. There's no doubt that China has been the most willing to sell technology to Pakistan, but this topic is about driving up Pakistan's defence exports.

This is not necessarily the same thing.

A major part of the JF-17 was that there was an understanding the PLAAF would buy 250 FC-1s, which in turn meant PAC would've entered the PLAAF's supply chain and exported goods to China. This did NOT happen. Yes, China was invaluable with providing technology, but at the same time, it didn't help Pakistan's defence exports as directly as it could have.

When it comes to exports, I'd rather work with states whom have offered (even in the lowest capacity) to invite us into their supply chains. Boeing has done so (and PAC manufactures parts for them), TAI offered, and in time (based on Aviation Week's interview with PAC a year ago), others will too.

This is in terms of exporting goods. If we're talking about acquisition for the Pakistani military, then that's a very different conversation, and all of the reasons you raised are valid.

fantasies aside, the Turks will "co-operate" with Pakistan as much or as little as is permitted by the NATO collective!

In terms of Pakistan's supply chain participation, it's still more than AVIC, NORINCO and CSIC.

 

[Philip the Arab]

I agree Pakistan should cooperate with whoever it can including Indonesia, South Africa, Turkey, Egypt, Serbia, Ukraine, Brazil, etc and anyone who has something to offer that doesn't have a monopoly like Western Europe, US, China, Russia, etc. Focus should be on being able to supplement and eventually replace imports with indigenous equivalents.

 

[Battle of Waterloo]

Title is misleading... $1 billion is the medium-long term GOAL, not the current number.

 

[khansaheeb]

No doubt. China is an excellent mentor. We as Pakistanis are indebted to China.

We just need a few nuke subs from China to counter India's buying spree.

 

[beijingwalker]

A major part of the JF-17 was that there was an understanding the PLAAF would buy 250 FC-1s, which in turn meant PAC would've entered the PLAAF's supply chain and exported goods to China. This did NOT happen.

That's your own speculation, JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 were designed to export, not for induction to PLAAF, we have different priorities, China's potential rival is nothing short of US airforce, the best of the best in the world, we are not fighting insurgencies nor countries like Afghanistan and India, JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 are not up to par for our future tasks. so for JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 we would prefer technology transfer than co production in the long run.

 

[messiach]

Turks were never and never be permitted for collaboration. We offered them a 'proposal' some two decades ago, straightforward turned down by unnnnncleSam. This is for records.

I want to clarify for records, there was never any such agreement to prodeuce FC1 for PLAAF. Instead from the CGP sharing, common controls were derived for both testlines and two seperate fighter assemblies were produced consequently, one for PLAAF, other for PAF. There is nothing else to it.

China did back out from buying 250 FC-1s, did it not? That was extra production work that could've gone to PAC and helped with boosting exports (albeit modestly, but noticeably). It was a cornerstone of the MoU, so China jumping ship was a shock for the PAF.

As for Turkey. TAI offered workshare to PAC as part of the ATAK project, and -- as of IDEAS 2018 anyways -- was willing to expand that to set-up jointly-funded training and MRO facilities for Turkish Aerospace's third-party sales.

But prior to all of that, TAI even contracted PAC to manufacture parts of the Anka UAV, even though the PAF never committed to buying the Anka. It was a gesture, and it put to use the production facilities PAC set-up for the Falco.

Can you name one Chinese offset or jointly-funded facility in a foreign country? I can tell you that Turkey's Aselsan has set-up shop in Kazakhstan, and that exploratory teams are coming to see what can work in Pakistan.

That's the difference. There's one country (China) that, from a defence industry point of view, doesn't need any co-production partners (as it can sustain the necessary economies-of-scale, R&D, etc alone), and others that do and, in turn, are openly asking for it.

As for NATO countries, there are opportunities (at more modest levels, perhaps in civil/non-military areas) there too. After all, Boeing did agree to an offset agreement with PAC wherein PAC could supply them parts (under the Boeing 777) contract.

 

[syed_yusuf]

That's your own speculation, JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 were designed to export, not for induction to PLAAF, we have different priorities, China's potential rival is nothing short of US airforce, the best of the best in the world, we are not fighting insurgencies nor countries like Afghanistan and India, JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 are not up to par for our future tasks. so for JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 we would prefer technology transfer than co production in the long run.

the understanding was there but PLAAF backed out due to change in priorities as mentioned above. they also offer Pakistan to join j-10 to fullfill collaboration ask from PAF that PAf refused. that is all history.