With China as its mentor, Pakistan triples arms exports - Reach $1Billion annually!

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That's your own speculation, JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 were designed to export, not for induction to PLAAF, we have different priorities, China's potential rival is nothing short of US airforce, the best of the best in the world, we are not fighting insurgencies nor countries like Afghanistan and India, JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 are not up to par for our future tasks. so for JF-17 AND 250 FC-1 we would prefer technology transfer than co production in the long run.

Fair enough, though those of us who were following this program in the late 1990s and early 2000s heard very differently about the PLAAF. However, I will say that China might be helping in other areas, like being a source for loans for third-party buyers of the JF-17.

Turks were never and never be permitted for collaboration. We offered them a 'proposal' some two decades ago, straightforward turned down by unnnnncleSam. This is for records.

I want to clarify for records, there was never any such agreement to prodeuce FC1 for PLAAF. Instead from the CGP sharing, common controls were derived for both testlines and two seperate fighter assemblies were produced consequently, one for PLAAF, other for PAF. There is nothing else to it.

I 100% agree with you on the sharing/development of sensitive technology, there's no parallel to China for Pakistan on this point. I've never doubted that, and never will. But that's not the point I'm making; I'm not talking about the development of certain technologies, but something very specific, supply chain access.

I was at IDEAS 2018, and I heard it straight from Turkish Aerospace and an SSB official, that talks were under way to contract production work to PAC for various Turkish projects (adding to the production work PAC did for the Anka a while back). Sure, it could be inherently simple parts or work, but that's the work that's notching up our defence export figures, and that's the work bringing in foreign currency.

 

[PeacefulWar]

Fair enough, though those of us who were following this program in the late 1990s and early 2000s heard very differently about the PLAAF. However, I will say that China might be helping in other areas, like being a source for loans for third-party buyers of the JF-17.


I 100% agree with you on the sharing/development of sensitive technology, there's no parallel to China for Pakistan on this point. I've never doubted that, and never will. But that's not the point I'm making; I'm not talking about the development of certain technologies, but something very specific, supply chain access.

I was at IDEAS 2018, and I heard it straight from Turkish Aerospace and an SSB official, that talks were under way to contract production work to PAC for various Turkish projects (adding to the production work PAC did for the Anka a while back). Sure, it could be inherently simple parts or work, but that's the work that's notching up our defence export figures, and that's the work bringing in foreign currency.

Basically, you want to integrate into one's supply chain. Which is only possible if Pak and China buy same equipments. Basically like USA's F35 project. But I think Pak prefer high CP products as Pak have rivals far far away from USA(China's rival). Hence F35 kind of collaboration doesn't work for China and Pak. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread Plaaf invited Paf to join J-10 project but Paf declined.

JF-17 kind projects probably are the only feasible way in forseable future.
China and Pak setup JV projects based on Pak's requirements. Target users will be Pak and international customers.

If Turkey is willing to out source some simple parts to Pak, of course it's a good news for you. And I don't see there's conflicts between Pak-China JV collaboration model.

Although I doubt you can make much money from low value-added exports due to the scale. How many products will Turkey or international customer buy given the facts that USA and Russia dominate the military market?

High value-added products like JF-17 makes much more sense even you only compare the economic value.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Basically, you want to integrate into one's supply chain. Which is only possible if Pak and China buy same equipments. Basically like USA's F35 project. But I think Pak prefer high CP products as Pak have rivals far far away from USA(China's rival). Hence F35 kind of collaboration doesn't work for China and Pak. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread Plaaf invited Paf to join J-10 project but Paf declined.

JF-17 kind projects probably are the only feasible way in forseable future.
China and Pak setup JV projects based on Pak's requirements. Target users will be Pak and international customers.

If Turkey is willing to out source some simple parts to Pak, of course it's a good news for you. And I don't see there's conflicts between Pak-China JV collaboration model.

Although I doubt you can make much money from low value-added exports due to the scale. How many products will Turkey or international customer buy given the facts that USA and Russia dominate the military market?

High value-added products like JF-17 makes much more sense even you only compare the economic value.

The JF-17 was for a specific requirement (low-cost, backbone fighter), while the J-10 overlapped with a fighter the PAF was already using (F-16). But I think with the FGFA program (Project Azm), there's more room for commonality between the PLAAF and PAF. Thus far, the requirements seem similar: twin-engine, supercruising.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Pakistan has also sold three JF-17s to Nigeria.

Have we?

 

[messiach]

This topic has been beaten to death but still comes alive. We came to a conclusion with CATIC, i think it was end of 1997 to scrap some of the design methodologies, limit to common stem core technologies and use them in core development goals under both programmes - meaning mature technology can go either way - accelerating pace of development permitting both programmes to continuously evolve in tandem.

Fair enough, though those of us who were following this program in the late 1990s and early 2000s heard very differently about the PLAAF. However, I will say that China might be helping in other areas, like being a source for loans for third-party buyers of the JF-17.


I 100% agree with you on the sharing/development of sensitive technology, there's no parallel to China for Pakistan on this point. I've never doubted that, and never will. But that's not the point I'm making; I'm not talking about the development of certain technologies, but something very specific, supply chain access.

I was at IDEAS 2018, and I heard it straight from Turkish Aerospace and an SSB official, that talks were under way to contract production work to PAC for various Turkish projects (adding to the production work PAC did for the Anka a while back). Sure, it could be inherently simple parts or work, but that's the work that's notching up our defence export figures, and that's the work bringing in foreign currency.

 

[Darth Vader]

1 Billion is a reasonable and achieve able target.
With Thunder block 3 coming love Pakistan most probably achieve this easily.

Few sectors for some reasons Pakistan military sort of ignored can be huge profit earners in 2 3 decades if invested properly now.
1 Space.
2 Artificial intelligence & special quantum
3 drone programs.

Number 2 & 3 have less cost than project one but these 3 can make Pakistan development hub.

Pakistan can plan better with quantum A.I as not many countries are directly investing or developing it but advantages will be far beyond than just military purpose. Pakistan can catch up easily and wont be that far behind and china has been making rapid progress

Space Program is the need of hour it will build Pakistani metal , aeronautical and engines industry to new levels.
That research will can used for future platforms as well.

And beside Military in Pakistan i dont think any state entities has the resources or capabilities to do this

 

[GS Zhou]

Pakistan to join j-10 to fullfill collaboration ask from PAF that PAf refused.

What is the reason PAF reject the J10 partnership offer from China? Obviously J-10 (and its latest variants) are much more capable than JF-17. (Please don't take me wrong, I'm not saying JF-17 is not good.)