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Will USA embargo PAF in Next War

Storm Force

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The arrival of the F16/52 was a real boost for PAF recently and gave them a real top notch fighter albeit in very small nos.

The supply of 500 ARAAMS and promise to upgrade the 45 older block a/b models was laso noted by all as big pik me up afer years of living in the shadow of the mig29/mirage2000 bvr threat from india.

The question i have is that with USA so obviously engaged with india now both politically and esp militarily was it OR IS IT a wise move to acquire American weapons that PAF will almost certainly use against an American ally of the future.

My question is

1. Will the Americans embargo or worse stil have thet set strict end user restrictions on the F16/52 use in war with india.

2. Wat guarantee of spare parts and weapons like bombs and missles is there.

3. Should PAF go for more F16 like there are suggestions. (18 more block52s)
 
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Just to be fair The Indian Air force themsel;ves are rumoured to be pushing the Indian Govt to go for Rafael or Typhoon AND NOT the American F18 Super hornets as many believe will hapen.

IAF top brass are very weary and seriously sceptical of USA restrictions/embargos in a war situation.

see this extract


[I]An IAF officer I spoke to six months ago to get a sense of how the Indian Air Force perceives partnerships with the United States as a potential outcome of the MMRCA competition, used a simple but strange metaphor to illustrate his opinion. Imagine India on the one side of a deep and wide ravine. Across this wide ravine is a gleaming suspension bridge. It looks great and appears superbly stable -- but in rough weather, there's every chance it will shake. In the past, when India has tried to cross this bridge, it has been forced to quickly retrace its steps midway when the bridge was buffeted by unkind winds that threatened to cast India into the ravine. So now, here's the question. Does the weather ever really change that much?

Two overwhelming notions, especially within the Indian media, over the last four years concerning the MMRCA competition, are, one, the government will choose an aircraft type based on political considerations. And two, since it does so, the Americans will win, since they offer more, on the face it, politically than any other nation. But these fall, indubitably, in the realm of government, and not the Indian Air Force. But while the IAF says it works only with determinables and not the intangibles, it obviously has concerns, many of which dwell in the realm of the political. Some of these concerns come up frequently and are well known. Others are less known and more specific. The idea of this post is to simply provide a consolidated view of perceptions of operating American aircraft.

Let's first get one thing out of the way. There are probably very few in the IAF who believe that the Americans can be beaten on potential technology. Notwithstanding arguments that the two American platforms on offer to India are essentially modernised legacy fighters with little or no modernisation latitude, there is a keen sense that the Americans control what is undeniably among the best aerospace technology in the world. The quality and temperament of sharing is a different matter, and I'll touch upon that later.

The chief cause of nervousness in the IAF regarding any potential hardware from the US is, quite clearly, the potential attendant erosion of autonomy. Nothing in the last six years has changed that perception. The IAF believes the Indian government is rightly skeptical about the CISMOA and BECA agreements, but the end-user verification pact (EUVA) that the two countries finally entered into (even with India's counterdraft accepted) is not something that went down well with the IAF. Crucially, there is a general sense that autonomy will potentially be affected not just as far as operations are concerned, but in other areas as well -- logistics, planning, profiling etc. Here's something even more interesting: One officer suggests that the use of the MMRCA aircraft as strategic deterrent platforms (i.e. nuclear delivery aircraft) is a grey area that could prove almost certainly problematic when dealing with the Americans, or at least more problematic with the Americans than the others. It so happens that the only country that has never questioned India's strategic positioning of its aircraft, are the French (though they have different, equally serious problems). "India may not be Turkey, Egypt of Pakistan, but if you look at any country that operates American aircraft, there has been a period -- sometimes prolonged -- of trouble," says the officer quoted above, adding, "This is something a country like Pakistan can afford, since it has already pledged its strategic future to one nation. But can we?" The fear that the autonomy overhang could affect operational planning is a very real one. A section of the IAF believes South Block is way too hardnosed to buckle to a bad deal -- there's another that believes reluctance to sign the EUVA was merely diplomatic grandstanding that conveniently harnessed the IAF's apprehensions -- and, therefore, that there is every chance the IAF will be saddled with jets it cannot fully use.

A related aspect is operational flexibility. During Kargil, the IAF reportedly did things to some of its Mirage-2000s that would have amounted to serious violations of the Indian government's contract with Dassault. It is understood, but not confirmed, that the French government was quietly engaged after the war and the two sides were able to agree that it was not a problem, and that no penalties would be slapped on the Indian government for what were, in reality, war exegencies, even though it was clear that there had been serious breaches of the technology agreement. The use of US aircraft would be far more potentially restricted and regulated by complex rules, legalese and guidelines. It's not that the IAF isn't used to this sort of thing. It's just that there's likely to be exponentially more to pore over before scrambling an American jet from an Indian base. Here's another point: Buying and operating US aircraft, some in the IAF believe, would "completely subvert" one of the most deeply entrenched "ways" of doing things in India -- using a generous dose of improvisation. "Will the American be fanatically remote controlling with India as well? It is hard to say," says the officer quoted above
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This is why The Pakistanis have done a great Job in getting the Thunder JF17 AND THE REASONS WHY both Tejas MK1 will pass IOC in 2 months and MK2 tejas take the skies in 2015-2016.

There is nothing like self sifficiency
 
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cheap mlu f16s are a very good option for paf.-- spareparts can be gotten from turkey etc if our reserves decrease- eventhough i think we mightve bulked on spares THIS time , thanks to the wot.

cheap mlu f16s are hitech, have better thrust and payload characteristics than jf17- we should cash in as much as we can as a non nato ally. [im not talking about f18s or any other new platform]

jf17 production is relatively slow- perhaps its undergoing modifications even now.
 
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The Question posed at the start of the thread (IMHO) is a no-brainer, The US will not hesitate to embargo Pakistan or any other country (that includes India) if they consider it expedient. The Americans have been remarkably consistent in shifting goal-posts whenever they felt like. As for the topic which takes up most of the first post- the IAF (actually the entire establishment in India) is wary. Never mind the public pronouncements that are made off and on.
 
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yes for sure USA just need something to make things worst for pakistan our policies are nuts we should prepare for worst now
 
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Only friend for Israel even they are not bother of their own image how much get damage with pro israeli policy infact they have made more enemies or people dont like them becoz of they support only one israel who have hardly few thousand people for those few thousand people they have lost hearts of billion people around the world
 
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What is China reaction to all this ?

If you had remember back in the 80s the US wouldn't allow the soviets to invade Pakistan.

Obviously its because to stop the soviets of having full control of the indian ocean.

But the US want to have this corridor, Will China allow that ?
 
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Sure thing. American will prove themselves bitching "friends" for the 1143th time in the history of Pakistan since Independence. Believe me, there is no country in the world who needs Pakistan and Pakistan needs whom more than China. Pakistan must stop looking towards USA for any positiveness. They are Americans. (Laenat Allah Elaih wa Ajmaean!) Aamin!
 
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Last time I checked

a) We are making our own fighters JF17 thunders
b) We are making our own F22P frigates (8)
c) We are making our own Agosta Subs
d) We are making our own Tanks not one 2 Alkhalid 1 , Alkhalid 2
e) We now working on our own AVIONICs package
f) We are making our own Trucks and Armored Personnel carriers
g) We have unused engines for Mirages 0km
h) We have own missiles made in Pakistan
i) We have our own nukes as much as US
j) We are making our own AWACs with China
k) We already have been making our own Italian Radars locally
l) We are also gaining FC-20 Latest in Chinese innovation
m) We are self sufficient in small arms ages ago
n) We are self sufficient in shoulder held missiles

Yes we need helicopters & Transport planes -

F16 is no longer the backbone of our defence its just 1 small element
of our defence scheme of thinks


We are keeping it around to honor our friendship with US as a gesture

F16 BLOCK what you ma call it ... is 1 small segment nothing more

And there is no need for Embargo - we are helping and they are helping its a mutual respect thing
 
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yaar imaan say how funny we are still waiting for 3 geneeration fighter and update them upto 4 generation where as world going for 5th generation fighter and already spend $$ on that from past 10 years (already forward thr qoutations) to those countries who have such aircraft like US, Russia, France .... and our leaders and Military officials still put all money in their pockets and runoff from country... inteha hey...

from past 60 years only 40 aircraft which are 3 gen and others also 3rd ge 90% are absolute technology.... already not in production...

pata nhae kis dunya may bheti hey koom!
 
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The arrival of the F16/52 was a real boost for PAF recently and gave them a real top notch fighter albeit in very small nos.

The supply of 500 ARAAMS and promise to upgrade the 45 older block a/b models was laso noted by all as big pik me up afer years of living in the shadow of the mig29/mirage2000 bvr threat from india.

The question i have is that with USA so obviously engaged with india now both politically and esp militarily was it OR IS IT a wise move to acquire American weapons that PAF will almost certainly use against an American ally of the future.

My question is

1. Will the Americans embargo or worse stil have thet set strict end user restrictions on the F16/52 use in war with india.

2. Wat guarantee of spare parts and weapons like bombs and missles is there.

3. Should PAF go for more F16 like there are suggestions. (18 more block52s)


Answer to your 1st question is... Even though PAF is restricted but still they will use it incase of war against India.

2nd question answer is... There will be no guarantee for supply of spare parts in future it will stop they did it in the past after using Pakistan and they will do it again.

3rd question answer is… No more buying of F16 or any other defense things from the US. We should trust our friend China and buy most of the defense stuff including aircrafts from China.

If we keep buying things from US its not going to prove good in near future because of maintainace and etc… No need for me to repeat we all know the reasons.
:pakistan::china:
 
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I think this situation will settle down in few days, and everything will be back to normal, by normal I mean USA will still remain a Jack @ss :D
 
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