Will Turkey receive F-35 Joint Strike Fighters from The USA?

[azbaroj]

Second Turkish F-35 made its first flight last week on Thursday.

@khansaheeb (kudur)

Is it from a reliable source ?

 

[TheMightyBender]

Despite some opposition, US on course to deliver F-35s to Turkey on June 21
By: Valerie Insinna   3 hours ago
deliver the first F-35 to Turkey, with the country set to accept its first jet on June 21 despite opposition from some in Congress.

A Lockheed Martin spokesman confirmed to Defense News that it’s still gearing up for a rollout ceremony at its production facilities in Fort Worth next week.

“The F-35 program traditionally hosts a ceremony to recognize every U.S. and international customer’s first aircraft. The rollout ceremony for Turkey’s first F-35 aircraft is scheduled for June 21,” the spokesman said in a written statement to Defense News.

“The aircraft will then ferry to Luke Air Force Base, Arizona, where Turkish pilots will join the F-35A training pool.”

The Senate is set to vote this week on the annual defense policy bill, which includes language that would prohibit the U.S. government from “transfer of title” to Turkey until the time that the Defense Department submits a report to Congress on removal of Turkey from the F-35 program.



Turkey threatens retaliation if new bill stops F-35 sale
Tension between the U.S. and Turkey over Ankara's plans to buy a Russian-made S-400 air defense system have yielded legislation to bar the sale of F-35 fighter jets.

By: Joe Gould
But even if that language succeeds in the Senate, the defense policy bill will proceed to conference, where a group of armed services committee members will hammer out differences between the House and Senate versions to emerge with a single, final piece of legislation. That process could take months.

Congress’s opposition to allowing Turkey to purchase the F-35 hovers around two points: the country’s detainment of American pastor Andrew Brunson and a deal to purchase the Russian S-400 air defense system.

But for now, it appears that the Defense Department has no plans to keep Turkey from getting its first F-35 or to put restrictions on its use at Luke AFB.

Thomas Goffus, the Defense Department’s deputy assistant secretary of defense for Europe and NATO, acknowledged during an Atlantic Council event Wednesday that Turkey’s acquistion of the S-400 could present the U.S. military and NATO alliance with added technical risks.

But he would not go as far to spell out what actions the Defense Department is considering or could consider later down the road — perhaps a sign that the Pentagon is waiting to see how this legislation shakes out.

“We have a process to evaluate the risks to Western technology that that [procurement] would present. Our preference is that they do not acquire the S-400,” Goffus said.

“Given that, they are a sovereign nation, and they are trying to take care of their defense needs,” he added. “What restrictions are placed on them and what Congress will eventually pass, I can’t even speculate on it on this point.”

By the time Congress passes legislation that could curb Anakara’s F-35 ownership, the country will likely have already started building up its first squadron at Luke AFB. There, Turkish pilots and maintainers will train alongside U.S. ones, moving from academic courseware to live flights.

NATO and U.S. Defense Department officials have warned Turkey that if it continues down the path of purchasing the S-400, it will not be able to plug it in with NATO technologies like the F-35. SASC, in its policy bill, echoed those concerns, saying that Turkey’s purchase of Russian hardware would “degrade the general security of the NATO alliance […] and degrade interoperability of the alliance.”

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After a meeting in Washington with U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo earlier this month, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu expressed confidence that the United States would not only deliver the first F-35 to Turkey as planned, but that it would ultimately decide to continue F-35 sales to Turkey.

“Turkey rejects threatening language from the U.S. on the issue, it is not constructive,” Çavuşoğlu said on June 4, according to a report from the Turkish newsgroup Anadolu Agency.

Turkey plans to buy 100 F-35As. As a partner of the program, its domestic defense industry helps build the Joint Strike Fighter. Most notably, Turkish Aerospace Industries’ serves as a manufacturer of the aircraft’s center fuselage. It has also been chosen as a sustainment hub for the international F-35 community.

 

[BHarwana]

The U.S. Senate took a step late Monday to block the delivery of F-35 warplanes to Turkey with an amendment in a $716 billion defense policy bill.

The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) bill containing the amendment that aims to prohibit F-35 sales to Turkey still needs to be passed by the House and is not expected to become law until later in the summer.

Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu earlier said that Turkey would turn to other markets if the United States does not allow it to buy Lockheed Martin's F-35 jets.

Çavuşoğlu said Russia or any other country that is a NATO member could be an alternative and that it would not be right to depend only on one country. "Turkey cannot remain without alternatives or help," the foreign minister added.

"If the U.S. imposes sanctions on us or takes such a step, Turkey will absolutely retaliate. What needs to be done is the U.S. needs to let go of this," the Foreign Minister said in another speech.

The NDAA bill backs President Donald Trump's call for a bigger, stronger military but also sets up a potential battle with the White House over Chinese telecommunications firm ZTE Corp.

Before it can become law, the bill must be reconciled with one already passed by the House of Representatives. That compromise measure must then be passed by both chambers and signed into law by Trump.

Lockheed Martin, the maker of the warplane, said that it still expects to hand over F-35s to Turkey in a ceremony that is set to take place in Fort Worth, Texas on June 21.

Trump may veto the bill over the sanctions it proposes against the Chinese telecom company ZTE.

The bill is more likely to include a much less stringent provision, included in the House bill, that would bar the Defense Department from dealing with any entity using telecommunications equipment or services from ZTE or Huawei Technologies, another Chinese company.

Ankara has previously slammed plans to block Turkey's role in the making of the F-35s. Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Committee Head Volkan Bozkır said that the U.S. has been threatening Turkey with a move regarding the F-35 deal if Turkey purchased S-400 missile defense systems from Russia.

ASELSAN, a Turkish defense giant that developed electronic optical targeting systems and air intervention controls for F-35 fighter jets, is also of the opinion that such a move would harm the U.S.

ASELSAN Chairman Haluk Görgün said that the F-35 project would collapse altogether if the U.S. decided to halt the delivery of the jets to Turkey. "It is not possible. It would collapse the F-35 program. I consider this as a personal statement. Turkey is a significant partner in this project," Görgün said.

Turkey ordered 100 aircraft – including, according to reports, F-35B short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) variants.

Several Turkish firms are involved in the making of the fighter jets as part of Turkey's partner role in the joint program. For instance, Alp Aviation partook in the production of the bodywork and landing gear. Ayesaş supplied the missile remote control interface and panoramic cockpit imaging system, and Fokker Elma produced electrical cabling and internal connection systems for F-35s. Moreover, Havelsan provided the training systems for F-35 jets, while Kale Aviation produced the body structure, connections and landing gear locking systems


https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/...o-temporarily-block-f-35-deliveries-to-turkey

 

[-------]

As A Turk I approve this. I would like to see all two-faced countries block sales to Turkey upfront and not behind closed doors, perhaps this way we can beat some sense into our people and increase self-sufficiency.

 

[BHarwana]

As A Turk I approve this. I would like to see all two-faced countries block sales to Turkey upfront and not behind closed doors, perhaps this way we can beat some sense into our people and increase self-sufficiency.

I don't think they can block it. Turkey will receive it's first jets in 2 days and they bill still needs approval from many other places.

 

[-------]

Also S-400 is just an excuse, the real thick of it is CIA agent undercover as an Christian Pastor was caught and put in jail. They want Turkey to release him.

I don't think they can block it. Turkey will receive it's first jets in 2 days and they bill still needs approval from many other places.

Those F-35 will stay in US for training Turkish Pilots, they are scheduled to arrive in Turkey next year.

 

[T-Rex]

I don't think they can block it. Turkey will receive it's first jets in 2 days and they bill still needs approval from many other places.

They'll try to block rest of the deliveries.

 

[BHarwana]

Also S-400 is just an excuse, the real thick of it is CIA agent undercover as an Christian Pastor was caught and put in jail. They want Turkey to release him.

Yes I agree S-400 is an excuse but the actual reason is USA wants to keep Israeli superiority in region. Spy are small issues for such a big move this bill is Israeli lobbied.

 

[DemirkanTR]

Yes I agree S-400 is an excuse but the actual reason is USA wants to keep Israeli superiority in region. Spy are small issues for such a big move this bill is Israeli lobbied.

Obviously that one is an important guy, not a small issue.

 

[BHarwana]

Those F-35 will stay in US for training Turkish Pilots, they are scheduled to arrive in Turkey next year.

Turkey is the co developer of the jet Turkey has most of the tech and Turkeys involvement in most of European arms production will help it a lot in developing any thing. They are not going to block it. if they were going to block it this would have been already done. When USA drags some thing that means it is only threatening.

Obviously that one is an important guy, not a small issue.

I must admit I am not aware of the whole situation so am not in position to comment on it.

Obviously that one is an important guy, not a small issue.

You are correct there is mention of that guy in the bill as well.

The Senate NDAA also includes an amendment prohibiting sales to Turkey of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets made by Lockheed Martin Corp <LMT.N> unless Trump certifies Turkey is not threatening NATO, purchasing defence equipment from Russia or detaining U.S. citizens.
http://www.euronews.com/2018/06/19/...-bill-battle-looms-with-trump-over-chinas-zte

 

[-------]

Turkey is the co developer of the jet Turkey has most of the tech and Turkeys involvement in most of European arms production will help it a lot in developing any thing. They are not going to block it. if they were going to block it this would have been already done. When USA drags some thing that means it is only threatening.



I must admit I am not aware of the whole situation so am not in position to comment on it.

Turkey has sunk $800m into the development of the F-35. Turkey is the only other source of the centre fuselage other then US among other critical components. Turkey has committed a lot to the Project that's for sure. But it doesn't mean US can't pull the plug anytime, they can, it's inconvenient and they are likely looking for way to plug the hole Turkey leaving the project will cause.

Turkey also built up facilities to become regional maintenance hub for the F-135 engine.

"Additionally, Turkish Industry are going to have significant Industrial Participation role supporting Lockheed Martin and Pratt and Whitney for F-35 aircraft sustainment and F135 engine production and sustainment. Turkey has been given the approval to build its own F135 engines and was also selected to have the first European Regional F135 Engine depot overhaul capability. Both the engine production and overhaul will take place at the 1st HIBM in Eskisehir. Additionally, TAI has also been assigned to represent the organic depots of the Turkish Armed Forces within the Autonomic Logistic Global Sustainment (ALGS) system and Havelsan has been assigned as the Turkish Integrator for the National Integrated Training Center (ITC)."

 

[BHarwana]

Turkey has sunk $800m into the development of the F-35. Turkey is the only other source of the centre fuselage other then US among other critical components. Turkey has committed a lot to the Project that's for sure. But it doesn't mean US can't pull the plug anytime, they can, it's inconvenient and they are likely looking for way to plug the hole Turkey leaving the project will cause.

Oh come on man thing are not as bad as you say. Turkey has lot of options. Any nation in the world will like to cooperate with Turkey in developing a 5th gen. Turkey already has PAK-FA option and PAK-FA is better than F-35. PAK FA is F-22 calss jet. Plus Turkey has it's own 5th gen project Pakistan also has it's own Korea has it's own China has many 5th gen. It is an open market for Turkey and USA knows it. USA don't wants to lose Turkey it is not good for US interests.

Regarding 800 million Turkey can earn that 800 million back by developing parts it is easy for Turkey. If Allah closes one door it opens 100 more.

There was a time when USA Banned F-16 sales to Pakistan and we were depressed but now we thank USA for Banning F-16 because we made our own jet due to that Ban of USA some time we cannot under stand but few action against us turns out to be in our favor in the end. Just trust Allah Pak what were he is doing is for your good.

 

[Beast]

Turkey has sunk $800m into the development of the F-35. Turkey is the only other source of the centre fuselage other then US among other critical components. Turkey has committed a lot to the Project that's for sure. But it doesn't mean US can't pull the plug anytime, they can, it's inconvenient and they are likely looking for way to plug the hole Turkey leaving the project will cause.

Turkey also built up facilities to become regional maintenance hub for the F-135 engine.

"Additionally, Turkish Industry are going to have significant Industrial Participation role supporting Lockheed Martin and Pratt and Whitney for F-35 aircraft sustainment and F135 engine production and sustainment. Turkey has been given the approval to build its own F135 engines and was also selected to have the first European Regional F135 Engine depot overhaul capability. Both the engine production and overhaul will take place at the 1st HIBM in Eskisehir. Additionally, TAI has also been assigned to represent the organic depots of the Turkish Armed Forces within the Autonomic Logistic Global Sustainment (ALGS) system and Havelsan has been assigned as the Turkish Integrator for the National Integrated Training Center (ITC)."

Don't be naive. US will never allowed others countries to make one of their high end aero engines. The core and critical engines parts are still need to depend on American supplier to complete the whole engines. The most turkey can make 70% and the remaining 30% most difficult parts will need to ship from USA. American are not idiots.

 

[-------]

Don't be naive. US will never allowed others countries to make one of their high end aero engines. The core and critical engines parts are still need to depend on American supplier to complete the whole engines. The most turkey can make 70% and the remaining 30% most difficult parts will need to ship from USA. American are not idiots.

I'm quoting Lockheed press release directly, ofcourse building or assembling doesn't mean entirety of the engine is sourced in Turkey. Not even the F-16 engines are. Hell I doubt Chinese engines are either.

Go read this.
https://www.f35.com/global/participation/turkey-industrial-participation

 

[Beast]

I'm quoting Lockheed press release directly, ofcourse building or assembling doesn't mean entirety of the engine is sourced in Turkey. Not even the F-16 engines are. Hell I doubt Chinese engines are either.

Go read this.
https://www.f35.com/global/participation/turkey-industrial-participation

So what are you arguing? If American decide to sanction turkey and stop support for F135 engine. Turkey F-35 will be doomed. When you buy American products, you shall know you can't offend US if you want your bulk military operate on US hardware to function.