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Will India get USS Kitty Hawk?

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Thanks largely to India's first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, who shared with his leftwing British friends a dislike of the Yanks, the geopolitically senseless alienation between the United States and India continued for five decades after India's independence in 1947.

What seems finally to have convinced the British to leave India was the seepage of loyalty from the Indian component of the armed forces. More than 2 million Indians saw action on the Allied side during World War II. Yet during the war, their loyalty to the Crown was tested by the discriminatory treatment meted out to Indians in the services. British personnel dominated the higher reaches of the military and were given perquisites and privileges far beyond those enjoyed by Indians.

Several thousands of soldiers joined the pro-Axis Indian National Army during the war. Within the ranks of those who remained on the Allied side, there was visible sympathy for those Indian officers and men who switched sides and refused to fight for the British monarchy that denied them the privileges enjoyed by soldiers from the Australian, New Zealand, U.S. and Canadian complements. The possibility of widespread revolts within the armed forces concentrated minds in London and speeded up the withdrawal from India

During World War II, the Muslim League under M. A. Jinnah backed the Allies unreservedly, and was later rewarded with Pakistan, a Muslim state carved out of Hindu-majority India. Jinnah's effusive backing for the British was matched by his successors' similarly emollient line toward the United States. As a result, Washington joined London in regarding Pakistan as a reliable ally, in contrast to the "undependable" Indians -- a tilt that continued until 9/11.

Even as late as the 1990s, the U.S. was pressuring India to surrender the Kashmir valley to Pakistan. At the same time the Clinton administration was covertly backing the jihadi elements that finally took power in Kabul in 1996 as the Taliban. Interestingly, as yet the U.S. Congress has not opened an enquiry into the 1994-96 policies that resulted in Osama bin Laden's patrons being given charge of Afghanistan, with consequences that have been disastrous for international security.

Relentless U.S. and British pressure since the 1950s on the Kashmir issue, and lavish military and civilian help given to Pakistan, caused New Delhi to gravitate toward the Soviet Union. Even in its 1971-1977 heyday, however, the strategic relationship between New Delhi and Moscow never resulted in a single Soviet soldier coming to India for basing or training.

Nowadays the U.S. military routinely undertakes joint exercises and training sorties in India. Fear of international jihad and worries over a fast-developing Chinese military have made the United States and India de facto military allies.

However, within both countries strong lobbies are still at work to abort this alliance. Within the United States these anti-India groups have coalesced around two poles. The first comprises those who take a Euro-centric view of the world, seeing it in terms of the West and the Rest. Such individuals see little value in a full-fledged alliance with India that might divert focus from NATO. According to this school, the only core international partners of value to the United States in worldwide conflicts are the other NATO countries.

The other lobby hard at work within the United States to sabotage the India-U.S. military alliance comprises backers of the Pakistan army. Recent efforts by officers who seek to forge a comprehensive military relationship with India to offer the USS Kitty Hawk carrier to the Indian Navy -- as the USS Trenton was a few years ago -- seem to have foundered on opposition from pro-Pakistan and NATO-centric elements in the U.S. military. They see the move as potentially alienating the Pakistan military.

Such a transfer would link the United States and India in a military supply relationship that could lead to the displacement of Russia as the primary supplier to India of defense equipment. Yet both the NATO and Pakistan lobbies within the U.S. military are working overtime to scuttle the plan to offer the USS Kitty Hawk to the Indians.

Within India too there has been resistance to the induction of the USS Kitty Hawk. It comes from the segment within the Indian Navy that is in favor of Russian or French platforms, both being lucrative sources of patronage. Their efforts at downplaying the force multiplier effect of the U.S. carrier focus on its "obsolete" catapult technology and the expenses involved in a refit.

That their primary interest is to prevent a reversal of the Indian decision to induct the Russian carrier Gorshkov (now estimated to cost US$1.6 billion in place of the $500 million quoted earlier) is clear from the primary argument used against the U.S. naval vessel, which is the age of the four-decade-old ship. However, unlike the Gorshkov, which is unable to sail at all, the U.S. vessel is operational, and was recently in the news for its attempt to dock in Hong Kong over the Thanksgiving weekend.

The fear among those within the Indian defense establishment with financial ties to Russian and French defense suppliers is that acquisition of the USS Kitty Hawk would result in New Delhi purchasing U.S. aircraft for the carrier, and later for the air force, in place of Russian ones. As such purchases could amount to US$22 billion over the next five years, the stakes are substantial even in purely financial terms.

Eager to get India to pay an extra US$1.4 billion for the Russian carrier, the pro-Russia lobby in India has ignored the fact that the modified Kiev class aviation cruiser was earlier mothballed due to a collapse of its propulsion systems. After nearly $500 million was paid toward a refit by India, it has been pulled out for a very expensive refurbishment and rechristened the INS Vikramaditya. The effectiveness of the multidimensional firepower it could unleash after such a $1.9 billion refit is yet to be tested.

The French and Russian lobbies were alerted by the Indian Navy's procurement of the former USS Trenton LPD-14. This ship, rechristened the INS Jalashwa in 2006, has a long record of operational performance with the U.S. Navy's carrier and amphibious groups. The Indian Navy's amphibious expeditionary capabilities have been significantly enhanced with the Jalashwa, the induction of which has helped familiarize naval personnel with U.S. systems.

The Indian Navy will add at least another 45 vessels in the next decade to maintain a 140-ship navy for operations. The focus is to reinforce sea control and sea denial capability that spans the Persian Gulf to the China Seas. The induction of the USS Kitty Hawk could be the trigger for the switchover from Russian-French to U.S. platforms in first the navy and later the air force and the army.

Indeed, the Kitty Hawk was the lead carrier along with the USS Nimitz CVN 68 in the recently concluded Malabar 07-02 in the Bay of Bengal, which significantly enhanced interoperability between U.S. and Indian forces. If it beats back hostile lobbies in both the U.S. and India and is rescued from oblivion by joining the expanding Indian Navy, the USS Kitty Hawk may serve as a force multiplier in the U.S.-India defense relationship.
 
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Ship is way too big for Mazgaon dock or Cochin Shipyard to handle. I seriously don't think so it'll find its way in IN.
 
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Right now Homegrown ADS is an immediate need and the building of ADS should be ramp immediately. Otherwise in the ever-changing shadow of Geo-political affairs, homegrown product should be ultimate alternative.
 
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The second answer lacks taste. Atleast not on a discussion forum.

I stand corrected. I said it because its been discussed before and the same questions get repeated again and again.

But here are the reasons:

1. US does not sell its capital ships to other countries, there are a few exceptions, but they were for some special countries.

2. The Kitty Hawk is way too old, even if it comes to India, it will spend most of its time in repairs rather than in actual duty.

3. The berthing, repairing facilities in India are not at all equipped to handle the Kitty Hawk.

4. Kitty Hawk is bloody expensive to maintain, most of India's naval budget would be spent on this vessel which is not feasible.

5. Where would India get the thousands of sailors required to man this ship.

6. We have no prior experience in handling and manning ships of this size, this can be done, but would take time in developing expertise in operations.

But either way, Kitty Hawk is not comming to India. I think we should develop our own carriers, IAC is the way to go, and we should slowly increase the tonnage as our economy increases and expertise develops.
 
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1. US does not sell its capital ships to other countries, there are a few exceptions, but they were for some special countries.

I have to check.

2. The Kitty Hawk is way too old, even if it comes to India, it will spend most of its time in repairs rather than in actual duty.

It is almost equally old as Admiral Gorshkov, and more importantly it is operational.

3. The berthing, repairing facilities in India are not at all equipped to handle the Kitty Hawk.

Can be upgraded.

4. Kitty Hawk is bloody expensive to maintain, most of India's naval budget would be spent on this vessel which is not feasible.

The relative budget will not be too much when compaired to admiral Gorkshov.

5. Where would India get the thousands of sailors required to man this ship.

The Kitty Hawk deal would be considered only if Admiral Gorshkov deal is scrapped, so the sailors will be as per forecast. BTW, Viraat is on the way of decommissioning, so the carrier fighting fleet could be migrated.

6. We have no prior experience in handling and manning ships of this size, this can be done, but would take time in developing expertise in operations.

As you say, it can be done. Not big deal to train our sailors in US.

But either way, Kitty Hawk is not comming to India. I think we should develop our own carriers, IAC is the way to go, and we should slowly increase the tonnage as our economy increases and expertise develops.

We are developing our own carriers, but just in case if Admiral Gorshkov deal is scrapped, the Kitty Hawk is a good alternative.
 
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2. The Kitty Hawk is way too old, even if it comes to India, it will spend most of its time in repairs rather than in actual duty.

It is almost equally old as Admiral Gorshkov, and more importantly it is operational.
No mate, it is being retired because it had become maintenance intensive. Gorshkov is being refurbished almost to the point of having a new ship, there is a world of difference.
Kitty Hawk in IN will be under repairs a lot of the time. And if it is to run properly it will need a thorough overhaul as well, which again will take a good amount of time.

3. The berthing, repairing facilities in India are not at all equipped to handle the Kitty Hawk.

Can be upgraded.
Yes they can, but that takes a lot of time.

4. Kitty Hawk is bloody expensive to maintain, most of India's naval budget would be spent on this vessel which is not feasible.

The relative budget will not be too much when compaired to admiral Gorkshov.
Ofcourse it will be mate. We are talking about a super carrier here, not a heavy cruiser that Gorshkov originally is.

Everything from the fuel required to run it to the number of sailors is huge for the Kitty Hawk.

The carriers of a country should be bought or used according to the economy. The Naval budget does not allow the running of ships such as the Kitty Hawk which would take a major chunk out of the navy's pocket. It is FAR more sensible to operate lower tonnage carriers for now.

Not to mention that the kitty hawk would require a big CBG which would divert the resources we have to center around kitty hawk.

5. Where would India get the thousands of sailors required to man this ship.

The Kitty Hawk deal would be considered only if Admiral Gorshkov deal is scrapped, so the sailors will be as per forecast. BTW, Viraat is on the way of decommissioning, so the carrier fighting fleet could be migrated.
KittyHawk is a supercarrier, with over twice the tonnage of Vikramaditya(;))
We cannot put so many sailors out to sea without some years of training given to them.

6. We have no prior experience in handling and manning ships of this size, this can be done, but would take time in developing expertise in operations.

As you say, it can be done. Not big deal to train our sailors in US.
Yes, but in all of the above options, it will take time.

Overall, the Kitty Hawk would not make a contribution to IN plans but rather be a liability.

But either way, Kitty Hawk is not comming to India. I think we should develop our own carriers, IAC is the way to go, and we should slowly increase the tonnage as our economy increases and expertise develops.

We are developing our own carriers, but just in case if Admiral Gorshkov deal is scrapped, the Kitty Hawk is a good alternative.

Vikramaditya deal will not be scrapped. And Kitty Hawk is still not a good alternative. Might as well wait and run Viraat till that time, and get our own carriers on the off chance that Vikramaditya does not come.
 
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Your answers are very logical. How are you so confident that Admiral Gorshkov deal will not be scrapped. Did you speak with Admiral Sureesh Metha ;)

I considered Kitty Hawk, only if Admiral Gorshkov deal was scrapped. Otherwise, we are doing quiet well in the region.
 
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Your answers are very logical. How are you so confident that Admiral Gorshkov deal will not be scrapped. Did you speak with Admiral Sureesh Metha ;)
Call it a gut feeling ;). I maybe wrong, but that is what i think, based on some observations.

I considered Kitty Hawk, only if Admiral Gorshkov deal was scrapped. Otherwise, we are doing quiet well in the region.
Mate, the biggest and most expensive equipment(or we can say 'best') is not always the required equipment.

Again, this is my POV, and i maybe wrong, i feel that we would need higher tonnage carriers after around 2 decades, when our economy is sufficiently large to easily take care of the expenses required for supercarriers. Not to mention the Navy should be big enough that as big as the CBG's for these carriers would be, it would be a small portion of the Navy's assets.
 
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I think Malaymishra has aptly addressed most points regarding why the Kitty Hawk isn't a worthwhile venture for the Indian navy.

As of right now the Indian Navy really doesn't have a need for an aircraft carrier. The rest of the surface fleet is more than capable of carrying out the devensive and if needed offensive maneuvers.

Most of the maritime defense and offense operations bar antisumbarine warfare (ASW) can be far better achieved with land based assets like the Jaguars and Sukhoi MKIs along with AEWs or AWACS. ASW operations can be conducted by maritime reconnisaince aircrafts and ship borne rotary wing aircrafts.

If the Gorshkov deal gets scrapped, a refund should be sought; this money should be invested directly into the IAC project. Instead of buying an outdated platform like the Kitty Hawk that will require a major and costly overhaul, it would be a lot better to obtain the steam catapult instead and install it into the IACs instead of the currently planned ski deck.
 
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As of right now the Indian Navy really doesn't have a need for an aircraft carrier. The rest of the surface fleet is more than capable of carrying out the devensive and if needed offensive maneuvers.

Mate, Indian Aircraft carriers are meant more for Fleet Air Defence rather than Strikes on enemy land, ofcourse that is there, but the primary aim till now was fleet defence.

Indian Navy sees its role from the straights of malacca to the hormuz straights, where no Indian land based aircraft can reach. Indian Navy will be patrolling the ENTIRE area. And thus aircraft carriers are a necessity rather than a luxury. OFcourse currently, the Navy cannot do that, but if you see their inductions and their plans, you will understand what im talking about.

IN wishes to be a true oceanic blue water navy, meaning it requires no support from any land based assets.

Most of the maritime defense and offense operations bar antisumbarine warfare (ASW) can be far better achieved with land based assets like the Jaguars and Sukhoi MKIs along with AEWs or AWACS. ASW operations can be conducted by maritime reconnisaince aircrafts and ship borne rotary wing aircrafts.
Now let me explain, till now the Indian AC were meant for fleet air defence, wi with carriers like Viraat with 20K DWT, now with the commissioning of carriers of higher capacity and tonnage, you will see Strike etc also being present on the mind of the Navy. With more planes available per carrier, it will be a formidable foe, something ac like Viraat were not.

As bigger ac also mean they require a lot more defence, a bigger CBG. Thus you see ships like the P-15A etc being built.

I hope you see a pattern. As the Indian economy grows more, the Navy will be able to afford and maintain carriers of far bigger tonnage than the ones currently in use or currently planned.
If the Gorshkov deal gets scrapped, a refund should be sought; this money should be invested directly into the IAC project. Instead of buying an outdated platform like the Kitty Hawk that will require a major and costly overhaul, it would be a lot better to obtain the steam catapult instead and install it into the IACs instead of the currently planned ski deck.
IAC 1 is already being built. The design(as im told) for IAC-2 has been frozen, and even that has a ski deck. I *think* that the IAC-3 will feature cats.
 
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