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Wikileaks : Secret Afghanistan War logs

Thats a good point.. However, the Republican govt was actually using more strong arm tactics with Pakistan including setting India up in Afghanistan to extract their pound of flesh. I think the Obama adminstration is trying a little more finesse in pressurizing Pakistan and also keeping an eye on the 2012 elections. Do remember that 98% of the papers are more damaging to the US govt and only a small number of those leaks point a finger at Pakistan. It would be interesting to see if the other stuff is used to discredit the Republican adminsitration now that elections are approaching in next 2 years..

Republicans did support India however they still gave us aid and agreed to sell us 76 F-16s.

Given Bush and Republican policy, I'd expect them to go to war with us if they knew we were supporting them. I'd also expect them to use their influence and diplomatic leverage and speak out more strongly against Pakistan.

None of this makes sense when everything is put together.
 
Pakistan is in bigger trouble. From the latest developments looks to me Pakistan is next in line for WOT.

Similar things happened before Iraq attack. India needs to be very careful and need to secure border and intelligence agency should be in high alert.

-Agni.

Hey man you give me the creeps with these kinda words. I wouldn't want the war coming over to my door.


God what a mess, I saw that terrible Nostradamus Prophecy thing on History Channel and the 2012 Mayas dooms day prophecy, which ironically coincide in timing,I sincerely wish they are all wrong.

Rest, here I am yet to get the peoples reaction on this, by tomorrow morning more local news and TV coverage should be out. I am sure its going to be a huge hue and cry, as there has been a strong reaction every time at the fallen soldier. The public isn't going to leave the government thats for sure.
What I see is, with in a few days the official clarification will be out, the verdict can swing in any direction, and the whole new game will then be played on the official release.
So lets keep our fingers crossed.
 
Looks like the US is relying on Northern Alliance/Indian intelligence under the garb of "Afghan intelligence" way too much.
 
Just think about it, why would US give us $1.5B/year aid, sell F-16s to us, give us other weapons in aid, etc, if they knew we were supporting Taliban.

Then furthermore, US being a superpower with huge amounts of influence and diplomatic leverage in Pakistan and across the world is not doing anything about this and in fact is helping us more.

If put this together with what I say below, it starts to sound like a big conspiracy theory (i.e. ISI supporting Taliban being a conspiracy theory).

If you can answer that, I am willing to go further in this debate.

Why is polish intelligence mentioned? It can be mentioned so as to not make the look leaks directly wholly at ISI AND to not make the leak look deliberate. You need to look at where most of the attention is being directed after this leak to see whom the leaks were meant to be directed at.

Now here's the important part. There's no concrete evidence provided of ISI involvement. And let me make it clear, leaks like this are not evidence. Something like Kasab is evidence, something like an ISI agent getting caught are evidence. It should be clear what solid, smoking gun evidence is. In this case, it's the words of Afghan and American intelligence agencies.

Now as for denial and conspiracy theories goes, let me make that clear as well. The denial argument won't work as long as there's no proof. And the conspiracy theorists are YOU guys - Americans and Indians - because this ISI supporting Taliban is a conspiracy theory until there is solid proof.

I agree that the aid part is what the confuses me to this day. For a general thinker like me it doesn't make sense in plain terms. So i have to build castles in air, like conspiracy theories. After going through Agno's post as reply to mine where he highlighted the glaring inconsistencies i have tried to read something about raw intel on Wiki which i am sorry to say is my only source. According to this some times this may be or may not be true. The human factor i.e. bias cannot be ruled out i agree. Particularly when the Afghan Intel is concerned this is bound to happen in ur case particularly.

Look all i am saying is this, and this is what i replied to Agno too. Speaking frankly since i am from a country which has all the requisites of enemity with u i am bound to see ur actions with suspicison and reports such as this as true. However to speak unbiasedly this report could be or couldn't be true.

To conclude with my personal thoughts, about the aid part i think since the USA knows that with ur contacts with them, u are the best person to help them as in 1980's not to provide assistance but to catch the once brothers-in-arms.
 
I agree that the aid part is what the confuses me to this day. For a general thinker like me it doesn't make sense in plain terms. So i have to build castles in air, like conspiracy theories. After going through Agno's post as reply to mine where he highlighted the glaring inconsistencies i have tried to read something about raw intel on Wiki which i am sorry to say is my only source. According to this some times this may be or may not be true. The human factor i.e. bias cannot be ruled out i agree. Particularly when the Afghan Intel is concerned this is bound to happen in ur case particularly.

Look all i am saying is this, and this is what i replied to Agno too. Speaking frankly since i am from a country which has all the requisites of enemity with u i am bound to see ur actions with suspicison and reports such as this as true. However to speak unbiasedly this report could be or couldn't be true.

To conclude with my personal thoughts, about the aid part i think since the USA knows that with ur contacts with them, u are the best person to help them as in 1980's not to provide assistance but to catch the once brothers-in-arms.

Well I am glad to see at least some honesty and a lack of bias.

Like I mentioned, many are openly ready to ask the question as to why US is providing Pakistan aid if Pakistan is supporting Taliban. Very few ask the same question worded differently - that is, why would US be providing aid to Pakistan if Pakistan was supporting Taliban.

There's just way too much inconsistency, grey areas, lack of information, questions to get even a half-good picture of what's going on at the ground.

My own conspiracy theory is that US is doing this to put pressure on Pakistan so as to make Pakistan go into NW. But that's only a theory, which is consistent with what's happening today and what US wants to accomplish.

But at the end of the day, all we have are our own theories that suit our own liking and beliefs.
 
A quickie-leak on

Obama's war

Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Mosharraf Zaidi

Let's establish the facts about the Wikileaks expose of 75,000 US military documents detailing Obama's war in Afghanistan.

First, the total number of documents released is 75,000. Another roughly 15,000 have been held back by the Wikileaks people "as part of a harm minimisation process demanded" by the sources that provided these files to Wikileaks in the first place. This means that there may be really damaging and shocking stories embedded in the remaining documents, because thus far, the documents contain nothing more than what we already know.

Second, the time period covered by the Wikileaks expose is January 2004-December 2009. This means it does not cover President Barack Obama's post-Afghan surge work, but it does cover both President Pervez Musharraf and President Asif Ali Zardari's time in officer. It also covers COAS Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani's time as both head of the ISI and COAS. This means that when we derive broad themes from the documents about Pakistan, we are saying something about the present Pakistani government, the past Pakistani government, and everything in between. But when we take broad messages about the US from these documents, we are saying something only about whatever preceded the current COIN strategy.

Third, Wikileaks' purpose in releasing these files has nothing to do with Pakistan, or India, or Afghanistan. Its purpose is to expose the incompetence, myopia and failure of the US-led war in Afghanistan. Wikileaks is an anti-war organisation. This means that the expose is not a part of any kind of campaign against Pakistan. If Pakistan looks bad in the crossfire of domestic American politics surrounding the Afghan war, that's Pakistan's bad. Contrary to the insatiable appetite for negativity about this country among some media outlets, Pakistan is in fact a bit player in the Wikileaks drama. The release of these documents is designed to influence US public opinion about the war in Afghanistan.

These facts are important. On Day One of its release, the Afghan War Diary 2004-2010 (as the documents have been branded by Wikileaks) discussing the conduct of the US government and military in their prosecution of the Afghan war seemed to be secondary. Instead, questions and conversations about Pakistan's ISI dominated the initial analysis of the Wikileaks documents.

The ISI is not a new villain in the global conversation about "******". For more than three decades, as the collective intelligence organisation of the Pakistani military, it has planned and prosecuted Pakistan's secret wars. Pakistanis don't need any help in understanding the ways in which the ISI has influenced both internal and external political events for the last three decades. The most penetrating, articulate and meaningful criticism of the ISI also happens to come from the work of Pakistanis, from Kamran Shafi's bold and fearless columns, to human rights activists demanding accountability for missing persons, to Pakistani Ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani's devastating critique in his book "Pakistan: From Mosque to Military".

Virtually no serious commentator or analyst anywhere, even those embedded deep in the armpit of the Pakistani establishment, claims that the Pakistani state was not instrumental in the creation, training and sustenance of the Taliban movement in Afghanistan. Given the nature of the relationship between the Pakistani state and the Afghan Taliban, one that goes right to the genetic core of the Taliban, it is hard to imagine that all ties can ever be severed. Again, for serious people, this is an issue that is done and dusted. Pakistan's state, and indeed, its society, had, has and will continue to have linkages with the Afghan Taliban. Moral judgments about these linkages are external to this fact.

These linkages do, however, deserve the scrutiny of the Pakistani parliament. If somehow, Pakistanis are involved in supporting any kind of violence against anyone, that kind of support had better be couched in a clear national security framework that articulates why it is okay for Pakistanis to underwrite such violence. Absent such a framework, the violence is illegal, and the space for speculation and innuendo about Pakistan is virtually infinite. It is that space that Pakistan's fiercest critics exploit when they generate massive headlines out of small nuggets of insignificant and stale information that implicates Pakistan in anti-US violence in Afghanistan (among other things).

Over time, the space provided by an ineffective Pakistani state has helped the ISI occupy in western minds, what the Mossad and CIA represent in the Muslim world: a convenient red-herring to explain the complexities, difficulties and unpleasantness of war and diplomacy in a post-9/11 world.

Western conspiracy theories about Pakistan's evil double-cross in Afghanistan don't need to be rooted in absolute truth, just a scant kernel of the truth will often do. In that way, it is once again eminently clear that talk of a "clash of civilisations" is garbage. It turns out that human beings are the same everywhere.

Pakistan's obsession with conspiracy theories is well-documented by the western media. This small sampling, for example, took less than five minutes to compile: August 24, 2005, "Pakistan: In the Land of Conspiracy Theories" PBS Frontline. May 12, 2009, "A Grand Conspiracy Theory From Pakistan" NY Times The Lede. November 17, 2009, "Pakistan's conspiracy theories" Reuters Blog. November 27, 2009, "Pakistan conspiracy theories stifle debate" BBC News. December 24, 2009, "Conspiracy Theories 'Stamped In DNA' Of Pakistanis" NPR. February 12, 2010, "Blackwater Conspiracy Theory Thrives in Pakistan" AOL News. February 16, 2010, "Pakistanis See a Vast U.S. Conspiracy Against Them" Time Magazine. April 28, 2010, "Pakistanis just love conspiracy theories" PRI's The World. May 25, 2010, "U.S. Is a Top Villain in Pakistan's Conspiracy Talk" NY Times. May 26, 2010, "Times Square bombing conspiracy theory takes hold in Pakistani media" Yahoo News.

This kind of coverage of Pakistan irks some within the Islamic Republic. But it really shouldn't. It is absolutely true that the current conflict between terrorists and ordinary Pakistanis has been made worse by our national and collective dependence on invisible and indefensible theories about the harm wished on us by other countries. Most of all, conspiracy theories, which tend to be based on small kernels of truth, help us avoid uncomfortable realities. Pakistan has a massive national security problem that is rooted in the violent extremism it once invested in as a strategy in Afghanistan. That is an uncomfortable reality.

The recent ISI and Pakistan obsession of war analysts and correspondents is not some other-worldly phenomenon. It is rooted in the very human need for comfort. There is much comfort in finding Pakistan and the ISI under every rock and IED in Afghanistan. The small kernels of truth that enable ISI conspiracy theories are a matter for Pakistanis to take seriously and address. But they also help the US and its allies in Afghanistan avoid the uncomfortable reality of Obama's Afghan war. This is a war that does not have a happy ending for anyone. This is a war that has made America, Pakistan, India, Iran and Afghanistan less safe. This is a war that needs to end. That is an uncomfortable reality.

Focusing on the adverse role of the ISI -- real and imagined -- in Afghanistan is a distraction. Ending Obama's Afghan war is the true purpose behind the Wikileaks expose. For that it should be celebrated. Not mourned.



The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy. Mosharraf Zaidi
 
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Afghanistan war logs: tensions increase after revelation of more leaked files

Tensions between the US, Afghanistan and Pakistan were further strained today after the leak of thousands of military documents about the Afghan war.

As members of the US Congress raised questions about Pakistan's alleged support for the Taliban, officials in Islamabad and Kabul also traded angry accusations on the same issue.

Further disclosures reveal more evidence of attempts by coalition commanders to cover up civilian casualties in the conflict.

The details emerge from more than 90,000 secret US military files, covering six years of the war, which caused a worldwide uproar when they were leaked yesterday.

The war logs show how a group of US marines who went on a shooting rampage after coming under attack near Jalalabad in 2007 recorded false information about the incident, in which they killed 19 unarmed civilians and wounded a further 50.

In another case that year, the logs detail how US special forces dropped six 2,000lb bombs on a compound where they believed a "high-value individual" was hiding, after "ensuring there were no innocent Afghans in the surrounding area". A senior US commander reported that 150 Taliban had been killed. Locals, however, reported that up to 300 civilians had died.

Other files in the secret archive reveal:

• Coalition commanders received numerous intelligence reports about the whereabouts and activity of Osama bin Laden between 2004 and 2009, even though the CIA chief has said there has been no precise information about the al-Qaida leader since 2003.

• The hopelessly ineffective attempts of US troops to win the "hearts and minds" of Afghans.

• How a notorious criminal was appointed chief of police in the south-western province of Farrah.

Speaking at a press conference at the Frontline Club in central London yesterday, Julian Assange, of Wikileaks, the website which initially published the war logs, said: "It is up to a court to decide clearly whether something is in the end a crime. That said, on the face of it, there does appear to be evidence of war crimes in this material."

Four days after it was first approached by the Guardian, the British Ministry of Defence said it was still unable to give an account of two questionable clusters of civilian shootings by British troops detailed in the American logs.

They were alleged to have taken place in Kabul in a month in 2007 when a detachment of the Coldstream Guards was patrolling, and in the southern province of Helmand during a six-month tour of duty by Royal Marine commandos at the end of 2008. The MoD said: "We are currently examining our records to establish the facts in the alleged civilian casualty incidents raised."

The UK foreign secretary, William Hague, told the BBC that the leaked documents could "poison the atmosphere in Afghanistan" but at the same time insisted they would not affect British troops:

Writing in the Guardian, Eric Joyce, a former soldier and parliamentary aide to the former Labour defence secretary Bob Ainsworth, described the leaked documents as a "game changer", adding that some of the questions raised were "stunning in their enormity".

The former Liberal Democrat leader and spokesman on defence and foreign affairs, Sir Menzies Campbell, said the documents showed how difficult it would be for UK troops to leave Afghanistan in 2015, the date set by David Cameron.

"The leaked documents show just how awesome the task will be to bring the Afghan police and army to a condition where they can be responsible for security," said Campbell.

Amnesty International called for reforms to the recording of civilian casualties after a row broke out over an incident in which the Afghan government says 45 villagers were killed in a rocket attack. The coalition disputes that it was responsible. Amnesty called on Nato "to provide a clear, unified system of accounting for civilian casualties in Afghanistan".

Daniel Ellsberg compared the publication of the war logs to the Pentagon Papers, which he leaked to the New York Times in 1971. "The Pentagon Papers did not stop or even affect the war but affected public opinion a great deal. Are we really going to do better with another $300bn [spent on the war in Afghanistan] on more bombs, more special forces, more drones? The Taliban are not going to quit."

The director of the military thinktank the Royal United Services Institute, Professor Michael Clarke, said in London: "There is no doubt that the leaks are politically pretty damaging. The papers give an impression of a lack of military discrimination in how operations were conducted."

The Pentagon said it was conducting an investigation into whether information in the logs placed coalition forces or their informants in danger.

Last night President Obama's press secretary, Robert Gibbs, claimed the logs published by the Wikileaks website posed "a very real threat" to US forces: "It's not the content … there are names, there are operations, there are sources, all of that information out in the public domain has the potential to do harm."

The Guardian was allowed to investigate the logs for several weeks ahead of publication, along with the New York Times and the German weekly Der Spiegel. The three have published excerpts from the documents which do not pose a risk to informants or military operations.
 
Top US lawmaker says leaks paint ‘outdated’ Pakistan picture

WASHINGTON: A top White House ally in the US Congress warned on Monday against judging Pakistan’s role in the Afghan war by “outdated reports” in a massive cache of leaked Pentagon documents on the conflict. “Some of these documents implicate Pakistan in aiding the Taliban and fuelling the insurgency in Afghanistan,” House Armed Services Committee Chairman Ike Skelton, a Democrat, said in a statement. “It is critical that we not use outdated reports to paint a picture of the cooperation of Pakistan in our efforts in Afghanistan,” he stressed, adding that Pakistan had “significantly stepped up its fight against the Taliban”. “While we still have concerns about Pakistan’s efforts against the Afghan Taliban, there is no doubt that there have been significant improvements in its overall effort,” said Skelton. The lawmaker also slammed the whistle blowing website WikiLeaks for “recklessness” and said the release “could put our national security… at serious risk”.Another top US lawmaker blasted the source of the leaked military documents, and said such “leakers belong in the orange jump suits of jailed criminals”. “It is shocking that any American, much less someone in the Pentagon, would betray his country and possibly put our soldiers at risk by leaking information on the ongoing war in Afghanistan,” said the senior Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Kit Bond. afp
 
Review of WikiLeaks documents may take weeks: Pentagon

WASHINGTON: The Pentagon said on Monday that its review of the leak of secret military documents on the war in Afghanistan would take “days if not weeks” and that it was too soon to assess their damage. Calling their release a “criminal act,” Pentagon spokesman Colonel Dave Lapan said the defense department was scrambling to review the documents to determine “whether they reveal sources and methods,” endanger troops or harm national security. “We’ve only seen a fraction of the documents purported to be out there so until we get a look at all of them, we can’t know exactly what the extent of the damage might be,” Lapan told reporters at the Pentagon. Lapan declined to discuss the relationship with Pakistan or any of the specific documents, saying that despite their release, the information remained classified. The documents appeared to only be at the secret level — still classified but at lower level than other types of secrecy within the military’s classification system, Lapan said. “The ones that we’ve seen are along the lines of standard reporting… of a very low level,” Lapan said. Meanwhile, chief spokesman for US Defence Secretary Geoff Morrell told Fox News that the Pentagon is investigating who leaked the military documents. “We want to figure out who did this and make sure there isn’t more coming,” Morrell said. agencies
 
Lies have no base..they cannot remain in secret for eternity. Eventually someone with coscience will come forward. I wonder how will Indian react to this who are too busy in riding collation back for economic benefits.
 
Wikileaks : Secret Afghanistan War logs

Wt should be the conclusion of Wekileaks....
Talibans were right and USA was wrong.
or
Americans were more worse then Talibans after killing thousands of inncoent people.
 

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