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Why U.S., China Destined to Clash

In terms of security / military, it's more than what you think. The USS giant carriers often traveling across the seas West Pacific, from the Yellow Sea, Sea of ​​Japan, Taiwan's water, the Philippines sea down to the East sea (south china sea) ... They regularly exercises drill with Japanese, Korean, and upcoming with the Filipinos...

Meanwhile, the other "lion" is taking steps toward "bared its teeth" near that area.


So the question is whether the two "lions" can live in a "jungle"?

When politics reach its extreme, it finally result in power exercise and then we move towards a 'Power Equilibrium' where every stake holder gets agreed with whatever they are left with. Today, world’s power balance/ power structure is based on the power exercise during WW2 which resulted in holding of Veto Powers/ Nuclear Powers by P5s, the winner of WW2. There is no reason why Britain and France have Veto Power and are recognized nuclear powers with falling among P5s. but Germany and Japan, the losers of WW2, don’t have these main two powers of world, Nuclear and Veto powers. so we now have G4, (group of Germany, Japan, India, Brazil), who are struggling for their stake in this world :agree:

First the two main lions, US and China, have to have face to face in all the areas of competitions, like in defense/ space research/ having better techs etc, then at the same time we find a third group of lions getting united which would be led by Russia, the third group made of former Soviet States as part of proposed Eurasia, including India, Vietnam, South Africa type countries. therefore, until we see any power struggle in world similar to WW2, we cant predict what will be the power balance after 15-20 years. But yes we know, that would be power struggle won’t be fought by 'primarily' conventional weapons like how WW2 was fought. political/ economical with strategic deterrence would play the major role :tup:
 
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Hello-10:

I read the 'return rate' of Chinese students back to China is less than 50%. I don't know what's the rate for Indian students. But nevertheless US has a net gain for brains which ever way you count it.

US is always been a country that build on immigrants. Because the opportunities and the living environments here, this trend is unlikely to stop any time soon. The new arrivals can easily adapt into the mainstream societies and before long they will treat this as their adopted country even though their fondness of their mother country are still strong.

The US has attracted "the brains" of the world.
Is it because he has the better "ideology"?
 
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When politics reach its extreme, it finally result in power exercise and then we move towards a 'Power Equilibrium' where every stake holder gets agreed with whatever they are left with. Today, world’s power balance is based on the power exercise during WW2 which resulted in holding of Veto Powers/ nuclear powers by P5s, the winner of WW2. There is no reason why Britain and France have Veto Power and are recognized nuclear powers with falling among P5s. but Germany and Japan, the losers of WW2, don’t have these main two powers of world, Nuclear and Veto powers. so we now have G4, (group of Germany, Japan, India, Brazil), who are struggling for their stake in this world :agree:

First the two main lions, US and China, have to have face to face in all the areas of competitions, like in defense/ space research/ having better techs etc, then at the same time we find a third group of lions getting united, which would be led by Russia, the third group made of former Soviet States as part of proposed Eurasia, including India, Vietnam, South Africa type countries. therefore, until we see any power struggle in world similar to WW2, we cant predict what will be the power balance after 15-20 years. But yes we know, that would be power struggle won’t be fought by 'primarily' conventional weapons like how WW2 was fought. political/ economical with strategic deterrence would play the major role :tup:

If Russians are white Europeans, why do they want to help Chinese or Indians gain more power? Do you think they will help you in the future and in what way?

Please look here, there is russian language part of the forum as well:
Stormfront Russia - Stormfront
 
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If Russians are white Europeans, why do they want to help Chinese or Indians gain more power? Do you think they will help you in the future and in what way?

Please look here, there is russian language part of the forum as well:
Stormfront Russia - Stormfront

As your stupid user name implies, in everything you see conflict between the whites and the non-whites. Give it up because it's way beyond that.
 
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Give US a break. China's economic growth came to be from two main items: American consumers and China's currency manipulations.

It is easy to produce but unless you have a demand for your products and labor you will have labored in vain. Decades of communist economic incompetency made the Chinese even more averse to spending, hence consuming, and drove them to be even better savers. However...

Ask Marilyn - Sunday's Column - November 20, 2011 | Parade.com

Savers do not escalate economic activities. Savers do not take risks with their wealth. No risks, no creativity and therefore no economic growth.

But thank whatever god or gods there may be in heaven, the American consumers came to China's rescue from economic collapse the way the Soviet empire did. American consumers demand and are willing to spend for what they demand. American entrepreneurs and venture capitalists take risks on new ideas that created new products and new services. We did it in America and we exported that attitude to China. Companion to this is China's currency manipulations to keep China's cost of doing business artificially low as admitted by China's own leadership.

The truth is that it is far easier for US to become even more powerful manufacturer than it is for one billion plus Chinese to change themselves from savers to spenders, and therefore economic drivers. Your leadership know this vulnerability for China.

America has been artificially devaluating their currency to 40% for the last decade or more. That is not enough. They are also pressurising the currencies of other countries to inflate. Case in point: Japan during the 80s what known as the Plaza Accord and now pressuring China to do what kills Japan's economy. Sounds like you the twin brother of a Schumer and Romney mixture. It is China which has been the great contributor for keeping your cpi so low and for helping many of your companies making profits for more than they can. You do not even thank us for those. GM has already in bankruptcy proceedings and ask them which automobile market in the world where they see the biggest expansion, earn most profits!

No one is denying the American's prowess in hi tech manufacturing. Keep spending with your overloaded credit cards to boost your economy. And Obama/ Clinton didn't tell your countrymen to save money?

ps: are you of indian decent?
 
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The US has attracted "the brains" of the world.

Is it because he has the better "ideology"?

Till 18th century, Asia was dominating the world, India/ China were among the richest countries, with mainly India the biggest economy till 17th/ 18th century.
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But then West could make better arms and even if they fought with each other also, like too many European wars in 18th, 19th and 20th centuries, they could be able to control the world. For the country like India, which was called ‘Golden Bird’ till 18th century, they lost almost everything to British. There could be limited development of India during British period; they shifted the Indian wealth to Britain. British made an Indian army fighting for them during different wars, like in WW1/ WW2, and also they made a social structure where the brains of India were provided opportunity to work for British companies only, till the time of freedom of India. If you find so many Indian origins in Britain, then many of them went there during British rule and settled there as they could be proved to be of use there. we had a discussing on PDF as below:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...-how-british-destroyed-india.html#post2364527

And after freedom in 1947, India was left with almost nothing, not with good industries also as even salt used to be imported from Britain, like how Mr Gandhi made salt revolution. British didn’t let any industry established in India, with making India a country whose brain would go to Britain and people based in India would import British products to give jobs to British workers. And from 1947, India started on its own again, the time there was no Industry/ no techs in India, as the Indian brains used to work for Britain till 1947. Right now, total number of middle class of India would be around 350mil while total population of India was hardly around 341mil in 1947, so now poverty of India is because of its over population, its 1.2bn right now. And we now find Asia again reaching its status it had till 17th/ 18th century, therefore, we now see too many wars organized which are nothing but the efforts by West to stop any dramatic change in this world which is almost set to occur? :meeting:
 
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If Russians are white Europeans, why do they want to help Chinese or Indians gain more power? Do you think they will help you in the future and in what way?
Please look here, there is russian language part of the forum as well:
Stormfront Russia - Stormfront

Russia believes in a power balance in this world as they know that there is no meaning of development if we can’t defend our freedom. All will go to those who will capture your country, if you cant defend yourself. Also, Russian rulers were always proved to be the men of their words for their friendship. if they commit something, they stands on their words no matter how much problems they may face and they developed their strengths on their own. They fought WW1 when Germany captured Russia then they had to learn that they gotto be able to defend themselves first. And then by WW2, they defeated Germany making Russia/ SU a super power since then. Even if Mr Nehru fought for freedom with Britain, he forgot that ‘democratic’ West is nothing but a tool to enslave the world and then he was betrayed by the ‘democratic’ West in 1962 war with China, which finally took life of Mr Nehru. But friendship of India with SU took a real shape in 1968 when SU’s premier received red carpet welcome by Ms Indira Gandhi, the daughter of Mr Nehru, just a year after introduction of NPT which was intended to make P5s ruling the world. And since then, friendship between Russia and India stood on every test. Russia helped India with every defense tech, space research techs, with using veto in favor of India many times. Don’t you remember what exactly happened to make Bangladesh free, read as below:

Hearing this, on December 9, Nixon decided to send the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into the Bay of Bengal to threaten India. The plan was to Surround India from all four sides and force them to retreat and leave East Pakistan.

On December 10, Nixon instructed Kissinger to ask the Chinese to move some troops toward the Indian frontier. 'Threaten to move forces or move them, Henry, that's what they must do now.' China feared any action on India might attract Soviet aggression. At this, US assured China that any action taken by Soviet Union will be countered by US to protect China.

Believing India can win the war and Indira Gandhi being determined to protect the interest of Bengalis, Soviet Union vetoed out the resolution thus letting India fight for the cause. Nixon and Kissinger pressurized Soviets to a very extent but luck did not support them.

"The Soviet Intelligence has reported that the English operative connection has come nearer to territorial India, water led by an aircraft carrier “Eagle” [On December 10]. For helping friendly India, Soviet government has directed a group of ships under the command of contr-admiral V. Kruglyakov."

"The Chief Commander had ordered me to lift the submarines and bring them to the surface so that it can be pictured by the American spy satellites or can be seen by the American Navy!' It was done to demonstrate, that we had all the needed things in Indian Ocean, including the nuclear submarines. I had lifted them, and they recognized it. Then, we intercepted the American communication. The commander of the Carrier Battle Group was then the counter-admiral Dimon Gordon. He sent the report to the 7th American Fleet Commander: 'Sir, we are too late. There are Russian nuclear submarines here, and a big collection of battleships'.

Americans returned and couldn't do anything. Soviet Union had also threatened China that, if they ever opened a front against India on its border, they will receive a tough response from North.

The war ended with the surrender of Pakistani army as they missed American help due to quick Russians who blocked both America and China from preventing India to advance. With this, a new country named Bangladesh was formed, which was recognized by the whole world and by Pakistan next year on Shimla Agreement.

1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and Britain | The World Reporter: News Opinion and Analysis

Mr Putin is coming from the same generation/ mid set, the SU/ Russia had during Cold War and India itself has understood during last 3-4 years of dramas, that, “if they gotto move two steps forward, they have to be ready to put one step backward also, whenever required.” India was also known as among the top 2-3 enemies of US till 1990, by their effort of NAM etc which were intended to resist US/ West. No wonder US used to equip Pakistan with their best arms, F16s etc, to fight with India and Pakistan used its best efforts against SU in Afghan in 80s to support US. US+UK just couldn’t attack India in 1972 because of SU otherwise they had done whatever was possible from their side. Only enemies of enemy are defined as the best friends and a clash between emerging economies and emerged economies is inevitable, specially because the today’s developed economies, US+EU, aren’t capable enough to face competition with the emerging economies, the BRICS. Also, there is win – win situation between India and Russia making them friends on every political issue, which makes India a very special friend of Russia, while China is a neighboring country of Russia. :)
 
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Russia believes in a power balance in this world as they know that there is no meaning of development if we can’t defend our freedom. All will go to those who will capture your country, if you cant defend yourself. Also, Russian rulers were always proved to be the men of their words for their friendship. if they commit something, they stands on their words no matter how much problems they may face and they developed their strengths on their own. They fought WW1 when Germany captured Russia then they had to learn that they gotto be able to defend themselves first. And then by WW2, they defeated Germany making Russia/ SU a super power since then. Even if Mr Nehru fought for freedom with Britain, he forgot that ‘democratic’ West is nothing but a tool to enslave the world and then he was betrayed by the ‘democratic’ West in 1962 war with China, which finally took life of Mr Nehru. But friendship of India with SU took a real shape in 1968 when SU’s premier received red carpet welcome by Ms Indira Gandhi, the daughter of Mr Nehru, just a year after introduction of NPT which was intended to make P5s ruling the world. And since then, friendship between Russia and India stood on every test. Russia helped India with every defense tech, space research techs, with using veto in favor of India many times. Don’t you remember what exactly happened to make Bangladesh free, read as below:



Mr Putin is coming from the same generation/ mid set, the SU/ Russia had during Cold War and India itself has understood during last 3-4 years of dramas, that, “if they gotto move two steps forward, they have to be ready to put one step backward also, whenever required.” India was also known as among the top 2-3 enemies of US till 1990, by their effort of NAM etc which were intended to resist US/ West. No wonder US used to equip Pakistan with their best arms, F16s etc, to fight with India and Pakistan used its best efforts against SU in Afghan in 80s to support US. US+UK just couldn’t attack India in 1972 because of SU otherwise they had done whatever was possible from their side. Only enemies of enemy are defined as the best friends and a clash between emerging economies and emerged economies is inevitable, specially because the today’s developed economies, US+EU, aren’t capable enough to face competition with the emerging economies, the BRICS. Also, there is win – win situation between India and Russia making them friends on every political issue, which makes India a very special friend of Russia, while China is a neighboring country of Russia. :)

I appreciate your detailed reply and the historical quote. I was aware of this bit of history of Russian contribution in the creation of Bangladesh and saving us from the attempted racist rule of West Pakistan. For this we are eternally grateful to both India and Russia, no Bangladeshi can deny that.

However, the world situation has changed quite a bit since then. Russia is no longer Soviet Union. Population of Russia is continuosly falling. I know that it imports a lot of Russian speaking labor from former Soviet countries, but still it is not enough. That demographic gap is sometimes filled by Chinese in Eastern Siberia where they are moving in as farm workers and leasing land for farming. I have heard that some in Russia are afraid that eventually Russia may lose parts of Siberia because of demographic change.

Of course Russia as its former self, Soviet Union, had forged great relationship in the past with people of different regions of the world, mainly because it was the principal balancer for US hegemony. So it had a useful and illustrious role while it lasted. Personally I support socialism, not a totalitarian one, but a more democratic one, as we see in the welfare states in Europe, specially Scandinavia. I have also personally known people and have friends in former Soviet Republics as well as Moscow, including ethnic Russians, who have a nostalgia for the good old days. I have also tried to learn Russian at one time. Basically there was a fundamental flaw in the economic system, Soviet Union did not survive and the world has moved on.

In this changed global scenario, India is now more close to the US and it may soon become a balancing tool against China, on another faulty policy drive from Washington DC, which I hope does not happen. A rising China is not just a threat for India, but Russia as well, with which it shares border.

In this challenging global scenario, where both India and China with billion plus population are fast rising, no other states will be able to balance these two in my opinion, which will be aggressive towards themselves as well as others, kind of like the US and Soviet Union used to be in the past. Both of these countries have aggressive meme's that are being used to unify and boost their morale, Hindu nationalism in case of India and Han ethnic nationalism in case of China. In both China and India, the victims and scapegoats are and increasingly will be the minorities, their smaller neighbor states and states in other regions of the globe where they already compete for resource exploitation, in competition with the US and the West.

So the solution I propose is that countries with some common history, culture, religion and ethnic roots, should try to join hands in bigger unions to counter the threat from these rising potential hegemons. Since Russia from the days of Kievan Rus has been a European entity, ethnic Russians are essentialy Europeans and fit in perfectly well when they migrate to North America or Europe, I think it makes sense for Russia to be in the greater EU, which will include people and lands that have majority people of European origin:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/164048-kalu_miahs-new-world-order-road-map-future.html

The US is facing a constant migration pressure from Mexico and other countries in South America. I believe this can be effectively solved with a Latin American Union, which will bring greater economic prosperity and political stability and create jobs in that region, so people do not have to move North for jobs. I think the same thing can be done in a African Union where an improving situation and job creation can reduce migration pressure to EU. For Russia and Russian speaking countries like Belorussia and Ukraine, I think it is time to work on closer relationship with EU. Why is that? I think it will make Russian land and people more secure from any encroachment from any corner, specially China. A union of mostly European origin countries will have the following population:

USA: 313
Canada: 35
EU: 503
Balkan: 22
Australia 23
New Zealand 4
Belarus 10
Russia 142
Georgia 4
Moldova 4
Ukraine 46
Armenia 3

Total 1109

So these countries have about 1.1 billion people which is a comparable size to the largest two states. Please note that this is not a question of making union of white people, but I think it is in the best interest of all these countries to remain majority white for the time being, which can only be done, if further integration can be made between the above countries, while having as much trade and economic relations with neighbors of individual countries, as well as countries in other regions of the world. Essentially the proposed step will mean to expand the EU integration process to all of the above countries. I think it will be good for people of all these countries including people of Russia.

While this greater EU is being formed, I believe it should ally more with union of smaller countries which I list in my above post. With highest achievement in HDI (Human Development Index) among global population, I believe it is not time for the people of European origin to be divided and hand over the torch of humanity to China (or an India which happens to have such a dream), just because people could not be creative and innovative and unite in time to avert this unwelcome future. I have nothing personally against Chinese or Indians leading the world, it is just that I don't thing they are anywhere close to being ready to fit the job description. It will also be in the interest of the rest of the world for the above to happen, because it will be a smooth transition from a Western/European (including Russian) dominated world to a truly multipolar world, without giving opportunity for the Chinese or the Indians to call the shots for the planet, which can potentially be destabilizing because of their volatility and tendency of sudden misadventures. I think every citizen of the globe deserves that sense of security in their future, including the ones in China and India, as it is mostly the ruling elite that have grandeurs of imperial ambitions, not the common citizens, whose lives are little affected and often negatively affected with such ambitions.
 
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I appreciate your detailed reply and the historical quote. I was aware of this bit of history of Russian contribution in the creation of Bangladesh and saving us from the attempted racist rule of West Pakistan. For this we are eternally grateful to both India and Russia, no Bangladeshi can deny that.

However, the world situation has changed quite a bit since then. Russia is no longer Soviet Union. Population of Russia is continuosly falling. I know that it imports a lot of Russian speaking labor from former Soviet countries, but still it is not enough. That demographic gap is sometimes filled by Chinese in Eastern Siberia where they are moving in as farm workers and leasing land for farming. I have heard that some in Russia are afraid that eventually Russia may lose parts of Siberia because of demographic change.

Of course Russia as its former self, Soviet Union, had forged great relationship in the past with people of different regions of the world, mainly because it was the principal balancer for US hegemony. So it had a useful and illustrious role while it lasted. Personally I support socialism, not a totalitarian one, but a more democratic one, as we see in the welfare states in Europe, specially Scandinavia. I have also personally known people and have friends in former Soviet Republics as well as Moscow, including ethnic Russians, who have a nostalgia for the good old days. I have also tried to learn Russian at one time. Basically there was a fundamental flaw in the economic system, Soviet Union did not survive and the world has moved on.

In this changed global scenario, India is now more close to the US and it may soon become a balancing tool against China, on another faulty policy drive from Washington DC, which I hope does not happen. A rising China is not just a threat for India, but Russia as well, with which it shares border.

In this challenging global scenario, where both India and China with billion plus population are fast rising, no other states will be able to balance these two in my opinion, which will be aggressive towards themselves as well as others, kind of like the US and Soviet Union used to be in the past. Both of these countries have aggressive meme's that are being used to unify and boost their morale, Hindu nationalism in case of India and Han ethnic nationalism in case of China. In both China and India, the victims and scapegoats are and increasingly will be the minorities, their smaller neighbor states and states in other regions of the globe where they already compete for resource exploitation, in competition with the US and the West.

So the solution I propose is that countries with some common history, culture, religion and ethnic roots, should try to join hands in bigger unions to counter the threat from these rising potential hegemons. Since Russia from the days of Kievan Rus has been a European entity, ethnic Russians are essentialy Europeans and fit in perfectly well when they migrate to North America or Europe, I think it makes sense for Russia to be in the greater EU, which will include people and lands that have majority people of European origin:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/164048-kalu_miahs-new-world-order-road-map-future.html

The US is facing a constant migration pressure from Mexico and other countries in South America. I believe this can be effectively solved with a Latin American Union, which will bring greater economic prosperity and political stability and create jobs in that region, so people do not have to move North for jobs. I think the same thing can be done in a African Union where an improving situation and job creation can reduce migration pressure to EU. For Russia and Russian speaking countries like Belorussia and Ukraine, I think it is time to work on closer relationship with EU. Why is that? I think it will make Russian land and people more secure from any encroachment from any corner, specially China. A union of mostly European origin countries will have the following population:

USA: 313
Canada: 35
EU: 503
Balkan: 22
Australia 23
New Zealand 4
Belarus 10
Russia 142
Georgia 4
Moldova 4
Ukraine 46
Armenia 3

Total 1109

So these countries have about 1.1 billion people which is a comparable size to the largest two states. Please note that this is not a question of making union of white people, but I think it is in the best interest of all these countries to remain majority white for the time being, which can only be done, if further integration can be made between the above countries, while having as much trade and economic relations with neighbors of individual countries, as well as countries in other regions of the world. Essentially the proposed step will mean to expand the EU integration process to all of the above countries. I think it will be good for people of all these countries including people of Russia.

While this greater EU is being formed, I believe it should ally more with union of smaller countries which I list in my above post. With highest achievement in HDI (Human Development Index) among global population, I believe it is not time for the people of European origin to be divided and hand over the torch of humanity to China (or an India which happens to have such a dream), just because people could not be creative and innovative and unite in time to avert this unwelcome future. I have nothing personally against Chinese or Indians leading the world, it is just that I don't thing they are anywhere close to being ready to fit the job description. It will also be in the interest of the rest of the world for the above to happen, because it will be a smooth transition from a Western/European (including Russian) dominated world to a truly multipolar world, without giving opportunity for the Chinese or the Indians to call the shots for the planet, which can potentially be destabilizing because of their volatility and tendency of sudden misadventures. I think every citizen of the globe deserves that sense of security in their future, including the ones in China and India, as it is mostly the ruling elite that have grandeurs of imperial ambitions, not the common citizens, whose lives are little affected and often negatively affected with such ambitions.

Sir, I will try to answer all the points you raised one day as I don’t enough time nowadays. :tup:

But the bottom line answer of your questions is, “We now have to move forward with our combined effort to have a ‘Single World’. We would now imagine for ‘One People’/ ‘One World Society’, regardless any religion or race. And yes, country like India, Bangladesh, China etc would also adopt ‘One Child Policy’ type things, similar to China also so that it won’t look like we want to put burden of our over population on other economies.” :cheers:

And from here, to achieve our common goal for a successful world society, we would try to contribute more in the ongoing thread as below :tup:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/163885-kony-2012-our-duty-our-own-humanity.html
 
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