Why the U.S. Is Demonizing and Destroying Pakistan

[VelocuR]

Since when have you seen me defending US policies on every matter? I have a thing called brain and I use it to think outside of box which others often do not.

Also, it is not right to always criticize US on every state of affairs concerning Pakistan and WOT. We need to do some self-analysis as well.

We sleep with the so-called DEVIL and then also belittle it? What kind of sick mindset is this?

I am back to revise your post. I apprecite your thoughtful and explanation. So do I similarly with using brains and careful analyze. Yes, it was all started by US, we have every right to criticize US on every matters from politic, drones, pressure, bribe, Abottabad raid, and unfortunately loss of 35,000 citizens. Pakistan chose to be along with US to fight off many terrorists in same common and interests. That's what we slept with so called Devil Mastermind in the same way against Soviet Wars.

You need some serious reality check.

• Constant span of target killings in Karachi
• Baloch Liberation Movement
• Tribes harboring anti-Pakistani feelings (where do you think TTP came from?)
• Differences at ethnic grounds (just see some news channels for this)
• Pakistani people destroying Pakistani infrastructure upon death of a political leader (something that only our worst enemies would do)
• Corruption at all levels (not just the rich politicians)
• Pakistani people working for CIA
• Shia-Sunni-Ahmadi conflicts

What do you think about all of this? You think all of this is joke?

Small matters. It is tis and tat by politics problems in Karachi, people do react badly by many frustrations and issues. However, these are temporary matters as we move slow better. These internal matters are nothing new to Pakistan including Balouch Movement. Pakistan know who is behind in TTP, terrorists, sympathizers and Afghan insurgents, thanks to Pakistan Army wipping off their games. There are many areas we successfully destroy them and gain controls.

What I suggest Pakistan government is to invest heavily on people prodctive lifes and healthy lifestyles and support them in long times. People's attitudes will change from emotional dramas to tolerances respectful.

Oh! Our case is not better then theirs. Otherwise, we would have been a strong and developed nation by now. Do the math.

Stop blaming everything on politicians. What the hell we do about the corruption? Just sit and bad mouth? Pity on this nation.

Corruption is this what we fight for a long times, it is still happened in other countries (many corruption in Russia, Mudroch (UK media scandals), amazing India, vice versa)

Unfortunately, we unexpected Benazir Bhutto's died, it is she we voted her, not Zardari government. You must praise Pakistan for not stirring up out of control to overthrow Zardari government and its corrupt business, US will take advantage opportunity to intervene just like Libya. Amazing, Pakistanis people are resilences and understood the plan games. Pakistan Army didn't make same mistake just like Musharraf overthrow Nawaz govt. Heck, we live in flawed democracy system!

Iraq was once a very strong nation because it was not engaged in wars and was making progress. Iraq was the leading economy in the Gulf during 1970s. But thanks to Saddam Hussain, it all changed very soon.

And Gaddafi needs to go. He has ruled over Libya for 40 years. That is more than enough. Libyan people want him out. You cannot blame US for Libyan civil war.

Believe me, leading economy doesn't mean anything. Mostly Arab countries didn't have great knowledges basic tools and drivers on technology and analyze themselves with full-fledged efforts. They have no basic idea on techonology and how to use it. They need West technology to import many weapons, engineers, trainers, researchers, mechanics, and business deals.

Gadhaffi need to go immediately, I can't express anger how he whistlebrowers to US regarding Pakistan Nuclear blackmarket. Good luck for Libyan people, supporters of Gaddafi and its repels.

I never said that US is going to invade Pakistan. However, people should stop underestimating that nation. The chest-thumpers and armchair generals here have no clue about the HORRORS of war and that too with the most powerful nation on Earth. It won't be our lucky day.

Also, Operation Nepture Spear was not a joke. It confirmed our weaknesses even at security levels. The US demonstrated the guts to conduct a unilateral military operation near the heart of Pakistan. This is something that India can never dream of doing.

US already invade Pakistan by using drones, proxy Afghan talibans/terrorists, bribe to Pakistan government, USAID including CIA networks, Raymond Davis, bomb blasts everyday happened in Pakistan. Pakistan authorities continue to bark at US, they are not quiet sit and eat dinners. I know, we shouldn't estimates US, we have seen HORROS of war first day shock and wave in Iraq. Hurt and sad. I tell you, last ten years we received alot of experiments and realizes to fullfill our problems.

Operation Nepture Spear OBL, PNS Mehran, Checkposts borders, Drones attack, foreign agents are all come from intelligents inside, amazing Pakistan didn't collapse quickly overnights. The purpose is US trying to hit Pakistan harder real harder, heck Pakistan survived all of these. It is temporary WOT with US but Pakistan must protect its land from Afghan borders in long-terms from local insurgents, sympathizers, anti-Pakistanis, etc.

Oh! Not all arab states are stupid. The removal of Saddam Hussain was in interest of several arab states. Particularly, Saudi Arabia is very smart when it comes to foreign affairs. The Saudi alliance with US paid off and US did its dirty work for taking care of Saddam Hussain. Not every one is stupid like Saddam Hussain, who wasted the potential of his great country on unnecessary wars. Now Saudi Arabia is eyeing Iran. Its intervention in Bahrain makes it clear that Iranian influence will be kept under check. Saudi Arabia also knows that Pakistan holds it in high regards. It can use Pakistani card too, if required.

Furthermore, the influential arabs have a big hand in manipulating the oil prices at global stage (one of the causes of recent recession), and they also fund the jihadi movements in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Unfortunately, Pakistani nation has yet to learn its lesson and realize its true issues. In the so-called cat and mouse game between US and Pakistan; we have been double-crossed on multiple occassions and often found ourselves on the recieving end. Who is the looser here?

Please keep in mind that my intention is not demoralize you and any other fellow Pakistani member. However, if we will not wake up to the sorry state of affairs we currently find ourselves in now; we will loose everything in the long term.

We need to realize the importance of UNITY, FAITH, and DISCIPLINE. May Allah guide us to right path. Ameen.

Yaar, we don't need to blame Arabs but you know well Arabs always backbitting each other in circle games. Their top prorities now is money, oil, alcohols, belly-dances, Wahabbasim, and the use of US' powers against others after the collapse of thousand golden years Ottoman Empires. These people become lazy today while Pakistan is in struggle wars.

Sorry mate, I think you are mostly sided with US instead advising solution for Pakistan. Most of your posts everything in your explanation. YES, We Pakistanis know the problems in internal matters, many people woke up after Abottabad raid many things happened this year including Davis case. We already woke up and decide for next election to choose strong leader. It is same thing, China can't fight directly with US but patients, tolerances and pretend bow. US influences today is declining especially in Pakistan and public opinions.

We need to realize the importance of UNITY, FAITH, and DISCIPLINE. May Allah guide us to right path. Ameen.

I have repeated this word Unity, Faith, and Discipline (We see three Sword representing everyday), Pakistan knows this very well. We are still strong united, raise awareness, and very fews others dirty deals in destorying Pakistan.

Jinnah's message; Unity, Faith, Discipline

Islamabad

Thank you, I sincerely hope you can advise us many solutions for Pakistan instead praising US or defend them.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

I will give credit where it is due. So far, India has done a marvelous job in handling its foreign affairs.
However, if you think that India is immune to US games; you are sadly mistaken.

Agree, IPI pipeline is a good example here , also our inability to make payments to Iran

The civil-nuclear deal, weapons purchases, joint military exercises; all of these are indications of expanding strategic partnership between US and India.

Most of the mentioned above have been performed with other nations like Russia, France ,Turkey ,Japan etc
So why does the US stand out here?

However, Indians know that US percieves India as a potential rival of China. And Indians also know that India would be part of the so-called ring to contain the Chinese influence in Asia but this will not change India's renewed policy towards US because Indian interests are also similar.

India refused Soviet invitations for arrangements to contain China in the 70s.
despite India being heavily reliant on Soviet Union for arms and aid and our relations with China being sour at that time.

So why should we join the ring to contain China today?
When we are not that dependent on the USA nor our relations are as bad as they were with China in the 70s.

Also, India expects some leverage over Pakistan, if it ties get stronger with US. Also if India wants VETO power weilding UNSC seat, appeasing US would be mandatory.

True!
But i don't see India making any compromises.

We didn't sign NPT but got the NSG waiver .maybe there is a chance the same is possible in case of UNSC seat ,though very low.

 

[Kazhugu]

actually if the us wants us to be he counter-balance for china we should agree because it is not only in the interests of usa to contain china but also in the interests of india...infact we have more interest to contain china than usa...... because 20 years down the line...it will china that will be the # 1 rival to india in asia.....not pakistan....we should think of the future....but our leaders are still stuck in nam and the other assorted bs......and they sing hindi-chini bhai bhai.......

 

[DkBose]

actually if the us wants us to be he counter-balance for china we should agree because it is not only in the interests of usa to contain china but also in the interests of india...infact we have more interest to contain china than usa...... because 20 years down the line...it will china that will be the # 1 rival to india in asia.....not pakistan....we should think of the future....but our leaders are still stuck in nam and the other assorted bs......and they sing hindi-chini bhai bhai.......

if usa turned against indai in future then wat u will do??
like they sacrificed iran and pakistan...who will take their guarantee....that same wont happen with us..
then at that time,u will look to ur neighbors..which are already against u...

so think infinite times about inviting usa..

 

[Kazhugu]

if usa turned against indai in future then wat u will do??
like they sacrificed iran and pakistan...who will take their guarantee....that same wont happen with us..
then at that time,u will look to ur neighbors..which are already against u...

so think infinite times about inviting usa..

india is not iran or pakistan or any other puny nation to be made a pawn in usa's games....when i say play with usa i meant play like a partner...not like a pawn or a henchman.....don't you agree its in india's interest too to contain the hegemonic ambitions of china ?

for example..when they told leave the ipi pipeline...they were ready to give us the nuclear exemption....so leaving ipi was in india's interest as well as in usa's interest...i'm advocating situations like that....we have so much in common and we have a lot of mutual interests......

 

[INDIAISM]

Pakistan is not India, Iraq or Afghanistan and is nuclear power to make sure Pakistan is ready for any conflict. Keep the nuclear arsenal aside, we have enough cruise and ballistic missiles to give the enemy a lesson and a brave nation of 190,000,000 million people.

Yes,you are right Pakistan is not India or to be frank Pakistan can't be India..and the major difference between Pakistan and India is that you gave all your cards to America for the sake of your relationship with America and here we not even ready to show our cards forget about giving them....and mmrca rejection was just a hint of that...

 

[sur]

....All this noise against Pakistan will go away if Pakistan dumps China and firmly allies itself with the America-India alliance here.

That's not true,,, US (for sake of her Jewish-masters) wants to destroy Pakistan as one country,,, if we made mistake of dumping china (which will NEVER happen) it will make US's task even easier....

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Pakistan is not India, Iraq or Afghanistan and is nuclear power to make sure Pakistan is ready for any conflict. Keep the nuclear arsenal aside, we have enough cruise and ballistic missiles to give the enemy a lesson and a brave nation of 190,000,000 million people.

Brave words.

Conceit is bragging about yourself. Confidence means you believe you can get the job done.

 

[ramu]

actually if the us wants us to be he counter-balance for china we should agree because it is not only in the interests of usa to contain china but also in the interests of india...infact we have more interest to contain china than usa...... because 20 years down the line...it will china that will be the # 1 rival to india in asia.....not pakistan....we should think of the future....but our leaders are still stuck in nam and the other assorted bs......and they sing hindi-chini bhai bhai.......

bad idea. we should work it in our favour but not in to the hands of US

 

[muse]

Pakistan should always do what is best for Pakistan.

I will support any Pakistani move, that is good for the Pakistani people.

Even if it means that China loses out for a short while.

Dragon
Pakistan is on the right course - US cannot exert any positive power and negative power lasts only as long as those on whom it is exerted, allow themselves to be acted up on -- and in this regard some politicians and bureaucrats see that if the US aid goes their personal fortunes will take a hit, but the people could not care less if the US stays, goes, or whatever.

 

[Meengla]

bad idea. we should work it in our favour but not in to the hands of US

Good idea.
Neighborhood is most important. And, as one of the Indian posters says a few posts above, most of India's neighbors are already against India; I don't know whether that is true or not but, if true, then really bad.

Once again, as I said above, Pakistan has NEVER been an American 'client' state. Pakistan has extracted a lot by being an American partner and most of their mutual 'transactions' worked for mutual benefit. Even now there is a significant overlap, despite a growing divergence of interests. A 'client' state would have fallen for the incentives to truly hurt Iran but Pakistan has never let American influence go beyond a point while extracting the maximum its leadership could extract.

IF India truly gets to a point where most major neighbors of India are in the China-orbit then it will only give Uncle more leverage against India. And leverage they will use for sure. It takes only a few months of sustained 'unofficial White House' leaks to destroy ANY nation's reputation because of the reach of American media. In fact, I consider American media-war/propaganda more powerful than its B-52 bombers due to psychological and economic consequences. There will be more pressure on India if India is not secure in its neighborhood. Currently, India is being put on a pedestal--just like Pakistan was in the 80s--but there is always the stick behind the carrot.

 

[LeGenD]

I am back to revise your post. I apprecite your thoughtful and explanation. So do I similarly with using brains and careful analyze. Yes, it was all started by US, we have every right to criticize US on every matters from politic, drones, pressure, bribe, Abottabad raid, and unfortunately loss of 35,000 citizens. Pakistan chose to be along with US to fight off many terrorists in same common and interests. That's what we slept with so called Devil Mastermind in the same way against Soviet Wars.

No we do not have right to criticize US on every state of affairs concerning us. When we accepted to cooperate with US; we have no right to complain. We knew about the US duplicity already.

Small matters. It is tis and tat by politics problems in Karachi, people do react badly by many frustrations and issues. However, these are temporary matters as we move slow better. These internal matters are nothing new to Pakistan including Balouch Movement. Pakistan know who is behind in TTP, terrorists, sympathizers and Afghan insurgents, thanks to Pakistan Army wipping off their games. There are many areas we successfully destroy them and gain controls.

The threat of militancy is far from over. Also, our internal problems are not temporary affairs. They are yet to be addressed and will not fade away with empty talks. A major reason that development and progress is so hard to achieve in Pakistan is due to our internal instabilities.

The worse thing is that people in our society can be easily lured by foreigners to do their bidding with promise of better life and money.

And we have no shortage of idiots who will burn this country upon a sign of political instability. The events that took place after the death of Benazir are shocking. We lost billions of rupees worth of property to goons who were not thinking straight.

Even Musharraf have stated several times that greatest threat to Pakistan is INTERNAL in nature.

What I suggest Pakistan government is to invest heavily on people prodctive lifes and healthy lifestyles and support them in long times. People's attitudes will change from emotional dramas to tolerances respectful.

And how will this happen? If we elect right people to power (plan 1).

And how will plan 1 happen? If Pakistani people want situation to improve in true sense and not just through empty talks.

However, who pays attention? Common people are too busy in their daily lives. They do not have time to think about other affairs. And the uneducated lot can be easily exploited by our greedy politicians for their bidding. Thus we are stuck in a vicious cycle of poverty and corruption.

Corruption is this what we fight for a long times, it is still happened in other countries (many corruption in Russia, Mudroch (UK media scandals), amazing India, vice versa)

We need to focus on Pakistan and not on other states with similar problems. Corruption is the reason that we have not been able to become an independent state by now. Think about it.

At least, Russia and India are independent states.

Unfortunately, we unexpected Benazir Bhutto's died, it is she we voted her, not Zardari government. You must praise Pakistan for not stirring up out of control to overthrow Zardari government and its corrupt business, US will take advantage opportunity to intervene just like Libya. Amazing, Pakistanis people are resilences and understood the plan games. Pakistan Army didn't make same mistake just like Musharraf overthrow Nawaz govt. Heck, we live in flawed democracy system!

Dude! As I said before, you need some serious reality check.

Musharraf actually issued SHOOT ON SIGHT orders and all the mayhem suddenly stopped. Otherwise, thugs and goons in our society would have burned down the entire nation. A true image of patriotic society.

Benazir was more important than welfare of Pakistan? And then we complain that development is slow and basic necessities are not being met.

Believe me, leading economy doesn't mean anything. Mostly Arab countries didn't have great knowledges basic tools and drivers on technology and analyze themselves with full-fledged efforts. They have no basic idea on techonology and how to use it. They need West technology to import many weapons, engineers, trainers, researchers, mechanics, and business deals.

You are right to some extent. However, strong economy gives a society adequate opportunities to utilize and realize its talents. It paves way for independence in true sense. When you have strong economy; you can invest significantly more in weak sectors of the state and results would be positive.

Poor economy is one of the fundamental weaknesses of Pakistan.

Gadhaffi need to go immediately, I can't express anger how he whistlebrowers to US regarding Pakistan Nuclear blackmarket. Good luck for Libyan people, supporters of Gaddafi and its repels.

Indeed.

US already invade Pakistan by using drones, proxy Afghan talibans/terrorists, bribe to Pakistan government, USAID including CIA networks, Raymond Davis, bomb blasts everyday happened in Pakistan. Pakistan authorities continue to bark at US, they are not quiet sit and eat dinners. I know, we shouldn't estimates US, we have seen HORROS of war first day shock and wave in Iraq. Hurt and sad. I tell you, last ten years we received alot of experiments and realizes to fullfill our problems.

See my response above. Iran stayed out of US games and you can see that it is free from all these issues.

Similarly, Turkey stayed out of US games in Iraq and you can see that it is free from all these issues.

However, we are majboor because of our poor economic condition. We have to listen to what our masters say to us. Another reason that why strong economy is needed.

Operation Nepture Spear OBL, PNS Mehran, Checkposts borders, Drones attack, foreign agents are all come from intelligents inside, amazing Pakistan didn't collapse quickly overnights. The purpose is US trying to hit Pakistan harder real harder, heck Pakistan survived all of these. It is temporary WOT with US but Pakistan must protect its land from Afghan borders in long-terms from local insurgents, sympathizers, anti-Pakistanis, etc.

No! Many of these operations are unilateral in nature. CIA has managed to reduce its dependence on ISI for its operations; thanks to Pakistani people working directly for CIA.

Now that we are in to this mess; we need to exercise patience and learn from our mistakes. We still have a chance.

Yaar, we don't need to blame Arabs but you know well Arabs always backbitting each other in circle games. Their top prorities now is money, oil, alcohols, belly-dances, Wahabbasim, and the use of US' powers against others after the collapse of thousand golden years Ottoman Empires. These people become lazy today while Pakistan is in struggle wars.

Agreed. However, these arabs are backbiting and scheming against non-arab states as well. This is the issue.

Sorry mate, I think you are mostly sided with US instead advising solution for Pakistan. Most of your posts everything in your explanation. YES, We Pakistanis know the problems in internal matters, many people woke up after Abottabad raid many things happened this year including Davis case. We already woke up and decide for next election to choose strong leader. It is same thing, China can't fight directly with US but patients, tolerances and pretend bow. US influences today is declining especially in Pakistan and public opinions.

You are sadly mistaken if you think that we have suddenly woken up to our mistakes.

My points for resolving Pakistani issues have been clear from the start:

1. Investment in Education needed
2. People should realize that corrupt politicians cannot solve their issues
3. Economic independence should be achieved
4. Root causes of terrorism must be addressed for our own stability
5. Islamic principles should be adopted in their true sense
6. Religious exploitation must be curbed.

All of these objectives cannot be met if this society does not wakes up to ground realities around it and remains split on ethnic, religious, and sectarian grounds. Their is a limit to what the government can do on its own.

I will give you a simple example: You must have heard about pirs who exploit common people for their personal motives and yet they still command a reasonable following? Why? Kill one of them and you will face a Lal-Masjid like situation again.

Sometimes, I wonder if Pakistani society is beyond saving now. If this happens, then Allah Almighty will decide our fate one day and we already know from the Holy Quran about the fate of those nations which were beyond saving.

I have repeated this word Unity, Faith, and Discipline (We see three Sword representing everyday), Pakistan knows this very well. We are still strong united, raise awareness, and very fews others dirty deals in destorying Pakistan.

Jinnah's message; Unity, Faith, Discipline

Islamabad

Thank you, I sincerely hope you can advise us many solutions for Pakistan instead praising US or defend them.

Thanks for the amazing picture.

However, we need to IMPLEMENT these advices on ourselves.

 

[Donatello]

who have time to write this article??

I would rather say, who has the time to READ this freaking article.

Blah. Richard Hellbroke is dead. That is the best thing that happened to Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

I will give credit where it is due. So far, India has done a marvelous job in handling its foreign affairs.

However, if you think that India is immune to US games; you are sadly mistaken. Most countries want to be on the good side of US. They want to benefit from US alliance. However, US decides the terms and conditions for perks it offers to its allies/strategic partners.

The civil-nuclear deal, weapons purchases, joint military excercises; all of these are indications of expanding strategic partnership between US and India.

However, Indians know that US percieves India as a potential rival of China. And Indians also know that India would be part of the so-called ring to contain the Chinese influence in Asia but this will not change India's renewed policy towards US because Indian interests are also similar. Remember how the offers of Chinese premier were ignored prior to visit of President Obama? Also, India expects some leverage over Pakistan, if it ties get stronger with US. Also if India wants VETO power weilding UNSC seat, appeasing US would be mandatory.

Now just wait for US to declare India an ally and all the fireworks will begin.

Our biggest military imports are from russia, israel and euro.. not usa... even after the civil nuke deal, it facilitates russian reactors in India.

We have a very matured International policy regarding safeguarding of our own interests. we didn't bow in front of US when we were broke as hell, what makes you think we will now. The biggest advantage for us is our huge internal market and self reliant economy.

Russia has been our major defence partner and ally, so even if we buy stuff from US, we still wont change our pro russian interest/ and more importantly our own independent foreign policy lines in international policy irrespective of US expectations.

US wants to field India against China... this is the same US which had sent the 7th fleet against India in bay of bengal...please do not assume the establishment which has taken utmost care of our successful foreign policy will get in bed with US by overnight cajoling.

thanks