Why the ethnic hate recently?

[Chandragupt Maurya]

You are missing the main point. We, the Punjabis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Balochis, and Sindhis are not "Muslims of India". The independence of Pakistan and what it represents is denoted by our real founder, Rehmat Ali. P for Punjab A for Afghan K for Kashmir S for Sind and Tan for Baluchistan and these very regions were part of the greater Indus Valley civilization. The word "India" was coined by the British and the whole word knows wherever they colonized in the world and left, those countries were left incomplete with distorted history, identity crisis and territorial disputes with neighbouring countries.

The real history which are not found in mainstream textbooks is we were colonized by the British 100 years less than modern day country of Hindustan and reason was our people revolted against them and as well as against Mughals who on the contrary of the perception that they were pious muslims, were in fact barbaric, raping women, killing people, and looting wealth. In historical context, even their duration of rule was minuscule compared to the history of Persian empire in our region.

Let me tell you this, I speak Turkish at intermediate level and I can definitely say that even that language has Persian influence and I find our regional languages have more common words with them than say vedic languages which we constantly assume as our own.

You are false about Kashmiri language being associated with India. Its actually an insult. We are called "little Iran" for a reason. In fact just to let you know for general knowledge purposes, Khomeini has Kashmiri roots and every year, hundreds of Kashmiri students study in Iran and in the Kashmir Vally alone you will find our architecture and culture being heavily Persian influenced while being Sunni majority. I recommend you to read Persian poetry by a Kashmiri called Ghani Kashmiri. Long story short, our culture is not too different than Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, inspite of being directly under illegal Hindustani occupation and under constant pressure to conform to Indianization from contemporary Punjabis, who have inferiority complexes and Urdu speakers, who are actual Indian natives

Moreover, I would recommend you to read a book called Indus Saga. There is a clear distinction between "Hind" and "Sind" All your confusions will become clear.

I agree with you on this point that Punjabi Muslims hate their culture and try to look Pashtoon , Irani , Kashmiri or Urdu Speaking and sometimes even Arabs , turks and Persians you won’t find such tendency in Bengali Muslims even the real mughals who are from the family of ruling class of Mughals who took refuge in Bengal don’t assert their mughal ancestry they say we are Bengalis
This wannabe Arab or turk thing is something very unique about Punjabi Muslims
Sikhs on indian side of Punjab (as i hear) want to be associated with British , Canadians and Americans , they dye their hairs have got English names and prefer English food it’s common to hear names like Happy Singh , Santa Singh , Banta Singh etc on Indian side of Punjab
This inferiority complex is something very unique about Punjab I don’t know why

 

[Erieye]

All you all claiming Baloch and Pashtun culture is barbaric don’t have the counter factual.

Because it's the truth. I'm not taking shots at them as an insult but they are tribal people, their culture is built around ethno-facism, violence, and hooliganism at its core - you only need to look into their history and own historical figures being proud of such. You can live among them and ask those who have.

Constantly resorting to violence over miniscule things, refusing to integrate with the general local population and ethno-centrism.

Maybe this can change over time with development and cultural assimilation but that would take a shit load of time and money - does Pakistan have that? Also why waste money developing their areas if at the end theyll demand separatism anyway, you want to waste resources which could be spent on your own areas? Remember we aren't rich with lots of oil and natural resources, dont waste the little you have on others

In a real country, the state would provide development and level the playing field. It would provide socio economic development to these regions. Not take their resources and then blame them for protesting that.

We don’t have the counterfactual of how things would have been had we done the above for the whole of the two provinces. We do have certain areas that developed, say like Peshawar, and the people there are more patriotic and Pakistani than say the tribal areas.

Certainly, one can criticize seperatism and ethno nationalism but this is like saying Bengalis started Mukhti Bahini because they are culturally violent people. And look we are currently taking all the sui gas from Balochistan and giving them nothing and they are not rebelling like the Bengalis are.

Go read up on the 18th amendment. They themselves contribute very little towards any tax.

In fact the state IS providing development,CPEC and Gwadar is literally focused on developing a large coastal city for Balochistan. They commit terrorist attacks against the infrastructure.

Do you think you have infinite money btw, and it spawns out of thin air? Punjab and Sindh have historically always been more developed - they contribute the most to tax and industries. It's unfair on them to siphon all their funds to other provinces who destroy it and then despise and hate them anyway. And what's the point if at the end they'll ask for independence? It's like spending half your life savings on your girl just for her to leave you

I agree with you on this point that Punjabi Muslims hate their culture and try to look Pashtoon , Irani , Kashmiri or Urdu Speaking and sometimes even Arabs , turks and Persians you won’t find such tendency in Bengali Muslims even the real mughals who are from the family of ruling class of Mughals who took refuge in Bengal don’t assert their mughal ancestry they say we are Bengalis
This wannabe Arab or turk thing is something very unique about Punjabi Muslims
Sikhs on indian side of Punjab (as i hear) want to be associated with British , Canadians and Americans , they dye their hairs have got English names and prefer English food it’s common to hear names like Happy Singh , Santa Singh , Banta Singh etc on Indian side of Punjab
This inferiority complex is something very unique about Punjab I don’t know why

Panjabi Muslims have been brainwashed and psyoped by the state.

They don't learn their own history, they are forced fed pan-Islamism and taught that their saviours are Turks and Afghans and all these other invaders, they are force fed a bunch of Urduistani stuff and their own culture and lagnuage is neglected.

Now when the state is forcefully trying to manufacture this false identity and deny you your truthful origin and history - what do you think the outcome will be?

What's worse is these people even today they want us to forcefully glorify, are our enemies today just as they were in our past. (Afghans)

Panjabi Sikhs are not like this, what you've described is a very few. Way more Hindus and other ethnicities change their name and copy white people. Most Sikhs are very proud of being Panjabi they dont have inferiority complex because they have learnt their history.

 

[Ssan]

Because it's the truth. I'm not taking shots at them as an insult but they are tribal people, their culture is built around ethno-facism, violence, and hooliganism at its core - you only need to look into their history and own historical figures being proud of such. You can live among them and ask those who have.

Constantly resorting to violence over miniscule things, refusing to integrate with the general local population and ethno-centrism.

Maybe this can change over time with development and cultural assimilation but that would take a shit load of time and money - does Pakistan have that? Also why waste money developing their areas if at the end theyll demand separatism anyway, you want to waste resources which could be spent on your own areas? Remember we aren't rich with lots of oil and natural resources, dont waste the little you have on others


Go read up on the 18th amendment. They themselves contribute very little towards any tax.

In fact the state IS providing development,CPEC and Gwadar is literally focused on developing a large coastal city for Balochistan. They commit terrorist attacks against the infrastructure.

Do you think you have infinite money btw, and it spawns out of thin air? Punjab and Sindh have historically always been more developed - they contribute the most to tax and industries. It's unfair on them to siphon all their funds to other provinces who destroy it and then despise and hate them anyway. And what's the point if at the end they'll ask for independence? It's like spending half your life savings on your girl just for her to leave you


Panjabi Muslims have been brainwashed and psyoped by the state.

They don't learn their own history, they are forced fed pan-Islamism and taught that their saviours are Turks and Afghans and all these other invaders, they are force fed a bunch of Urduistani stuff and their own culture and lagnuage is neglected.

Now when the state is forcefully trying to manufacture this false identity and deny you your truthful origin and history - what do you think the outcome will be?

What's worse is these people even today they want us to forcefully glorify, are our enemies today just as they were in our past. (Afghans)

Panjabi Sikhs are not like this, what you've described is a very few. Way more Hindus and other ethnicities change their name and copy white people. Most Sikhs are very proud of being Panjabi they dont have inferiority complex because they have learnt their history.

What the heck sort of logic is this?

I say you don’t have the counterfactual, you say it is the truth?

If you leave an area undeveloped, then ofc, they will develop a culture that is associated with that. With education, civil engagement, things change. You think Punjab was any different before the canal system.

If you just account for all the gas that we have taken out of Balochistan, priced at international market prices, you haven’t given them any money that accounts for that. But you don’t get this because we use burn Sui gas as we charge customer a tenth of what it costs internationally. So you are not doing ehsan on these areas. People in Gwadar are angry because there is no development in their areas. And there are no go zones in the city itself.

Add on to this, all the forced disappearances. I am ashamed to say that a mere year ago, if you asked me, I would have stuck by the establishment and said they need to disappear people because the judiciary doesn’t convict them.

Now it is clear that the judiciary is just doing the bidding of the establishment and the sardars, feudals, Zardaris, etc, are all there with the full blessing of the establishment. Can’t blame the Sindhis for apparently voting in Bhutto if Karachi is also apparently voting them in too. Clearly the whole system is corrupt and the establishment has put their puppets into these places.

Saying that we can’t provide development to this area is equal to saying that we can’t provide security to this area. It’s gibberish. You don’t have a country with thinking like that.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I have noticed that recently we have had a lot of posts that have been ethnic centric and racist. These have been leaving a bad taste in the mouth for readers like me.

Mods, what is the forum policy on posts like this?

I am not saying that a little bit of competition is bad, we can definitely jostle about which city is better, who is more patriotic, etc.,

But I don’t think it ought to be okay to be racist and pejorative against an ethnic group if they are Pakistani. I don’t think it’s good for the country and frankly it’s immoral and unethical too.

What are your thoughts?

Because mods are allowing it to thrive, one member suggested putting Pashtuns and Baloch into concentration camps and he still hasn't been banned.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Amir Khusro lived around 1300 AD and wrote in Persian and Hindavi, which was a primitive local language also called Khariboli. Urdu developed under Muslim rule over the centuries and incorporates Persian, Arabic and local Hindi.

Persian was the official language but Urdu has always been the common language of Muslims of India. Later Mughal emperors also spoke Urdu. And, yes, India includes all the areas of what is now Pakistan.

All of Pakistan’s history is represented in the Urdu language. The Indian subcontinent location, Persian culture, Arabic religion, even links with Turkey. Now it also has English, representing British rule.

Urdu/Hindustani/Hindi was not a language relevantly spoken in modern-day Pakistan until the 1900's.

The "later" Mughal Emperors that spoke and promoted Urdu did not control an inch of modern-day Pakistan.

British envoys of the 1800s remarked how none in the region (Punjab & Sindh) could speak the language of Hindustan (Urdu) and hence they required Farsi translators.

Pashto and Baluchi are Iranian languages. Punjabi, Kashmiri and Sindhi are Indian languages. Urdu is a hybrid.

There is no such thing as an "Indian" language, Indo-Aryan does not equate to Indian. Urdu is also considered an Indo-Aryan language, it is in no way categorized as "hybrid".

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Urdu is more connected to us than Farsi is. Switching to Farsi would be entirely foreign and incredibly cringe. At least Urdu originated from the subcontient.

Farsi has had a much stronger history and connection to modern-day Pakistan than Urdu, our region literally had it's own unique dialects of Farsi. It was a British policy to repress Farsi and promote Urdu as means of integrating the "North-West" (modern-day Pakistan) with the rest of the British Raj. Regardless, there is no longer any point in discussing this as the national language can no longer be changed.

 

[Son of Porus]

this entire thread has demonstrated how fickle minded this community is. especially how pakdef has become an echo chamber for non-issues and perpetual fantasy race wars by insecure identity crisis wavering muhajjirs and dilapidated ethno-nationalist punjabis whom thank god only exist online. you speak ill of a fellow pakhtun or baloch on here but in real life shit at the confrontation - this sort of rhetoric is non-existent yet these idiots continue making these cringe posts that read off like an aneurysm. don't understand why mods are allowing this. sort your act up.

 

[Maula Jatt]

this entire thread has demonstrated how fickle minded this community is. especially how pakdef has become an echo chamber for non-issues and perpetual fantasy race wars by insecure identity crisis wavering muhajjirs and dilapidated ethno-nationalist punjabis whom thank god only exist online. you speak ill of a fellow pakhtun or baloch on here but in real life shit at the confrontation - this sort of rhetoric is non-existent yet these idiots continue making these cringe posts that read off like an aneurysm. don't understand why mods are allowing this. sort your act up.

Damn!!
This thread was so toxic that even the son of porus had to give in and respond, 4 years after creating his account

 

[Erieye]

Farsi has had a much stronger history and connection to modern-day Pakistan than Urdu, our region literally had it's own unique dialects of Farsi. It was a British policy to repress Farsi and promote Urdu as means of integrating the "North-West" (modern-day Pakistan) with the rest of the British Raj. Regardless, there is no longer any point in discussing this as the national language can no longer be changed.

well then, it was a foreign language to us and then it also disappeared, i still see it as a little pathetic to impose a foreign lanuage back rather than choose a native one now that the choice is ours.

and yeah i agree with you overall, it is far too late. cant keep mixing and matching your identity after every few decades.

 

[Tamerlane]

There is no such thing as an "Indian" language, Indo-Aryan does not equate to Indian. Urdu is also considered an Indo-Aryan language, it is in no way categorized as "hybrid".

It was suggested by someone that Punjabi, Pashto, Kashmiri etc. were all branches of Farsi.

2. Punjabi, Pashto, Kashmiri, Balochi, and Sindhi have one thing in common. The languages are branch of Farsi/Dari due to islamic and cultural reasons.

I pointed out that that only Pashto and Baluchi are Iranian languages and Punjabi, Kashmiri and Sindhi are Indian languages, and so is Urdu.

Indo-Iranian languages branch out into Iranian and Indian languages and Pashto and Baluchi are on the Iranian side while Punjabi, Kashmiri, Sindhi and Urdu are on the Indian side. Of these languages Urdu probably has the most Farsi and Arabic mixed in. For example, the national anthem is supposed to be Urdu but it is almost entirely Farsi. Only one word is not Farsi, Pak sarzamin ka nizam.

Today Pakistan is collapsing and we're still discussing which language we should be speaking. Reminds me of the story about scholars in Baghdad discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a needle while Halaku Khan's armies were outside the city.

 

[Erieye]

What the heck sort of logic is this?

I say you don’t have the counterfactual, you say it is the truth?

If you leave an area undeveloped, then ofc, they will develop a culture that is associated with that. With education, civil engagement, things change. You think Punjab was any different before the canal system.

If you just account for all the gas that we have taken out of Balochistan, priced at international market prices, you haven’t given them any money that accounts for that. But you don’t get this because we use burn Sui gas as we charge customer a tenth of what it costs internationally. So you are not doing ehsan on these areas. People in Gwadar are angry because there is no development in their areas. And there are no go zones in the city itself.

Add on to this, all the forced disappearances. I am ashamed to say that a mere year ago, if you asked me, I would have stuck by the establishment and said they need to disappear people because the judiciary doesn’t convict them.

Now it is clear that the judiciary is just doing the bidding of the establishment and the sardars, feudals, Zardaris, etc, are all there with the full blessing of the establishment. Can’t blame the Sindhis for apparently voting in Bhutto if Karachi is also apparently voting them in too. Clearly the whole system is corrupt and the establishment has put their puppets into these places.

Saying that we can’t provide development to this area is equal to saying that we can’t provide security to this area. It’s gibberish. You don’t have a country with thinking like that.

Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

pakistan is a federation it works by province

its the job of the provinical government to address this. same reason Karachi is gone to shit is because sindh provincial government neglects it, hence the discussion of making it federal territory or a separate province

 

[Hamza913]

this entire thread has demonstrated how fickle minded this community is. especially how pakdef has become an echo chamber for non-issues and perpetual fantasy race wars by insecure identity crisis wavering muhajjirs and dilapidated ethno-nationalist punjabis whom thank god only exist online. you speak ill of a fellow pakhtun or baloch on here but in real life shit at the confrontation - this sort of rhetoric is non-existent yet these idiots continue making these cringe posts that read off like an aneurysm. don't understand why mods are allowing this. sort your act up.

Semi-true

Pakistan has always had inter-ethnic strife bubbling underneath its surface, they're not imaginary even if people go to extremes over them

 

[Ssan]

Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

pakistan is a federation it works by province

its the job of the provinical government to address this. same reason Karachi is gone to shit is because sindh provincial government neglects it, hence the discussion of making it federal territory or a separate province

18th amendment was passed fairly recently. What about before that?

Btw, KPK was able to develop during PTI time thanks to 18th amendment. But they clearly need more time. Joining FATA into KPK is a good idea and long term it will have positive outcome.

Balochistan is separate story. There, the sardars are really establishment lackeys. All the people who win there are either establishment lackeys (BAP and even BNP)

Or commie leftists

 

[ThunderCat]

I did not say Delhi nor where it started. I said it developed in the Turkic speaking army camps reporting to Persian speaking bureaucracy practicing Arab religion.

The name Ordu was given hence for its purpose and prime usage which remained a military purpose. As gradually the invading army settled in to their new 'homes', the so called 'intellectual' community found other things to do with the language other than military purpose.

The name "urdu" comes from the poet Mushafi who started the name in 1780, which is quite recent in this languages nearly thousand year history.

Look at the quotes I posted above. It started in Lahore by the name Lashkari Zaban, the language of the battalions.

It was also known as Hindui or Hindavi, meaning of the Indus.

 

[Edevelop]

I agree with you on this point that Punjabi Muslims hate their culture and try to look Pashtoon , Irani , Kashmiri or Urdu Speaking and sometimes even Arabs , turks and Persians you won’t find such tendency in Bengali Muslims even the real mughals who are from the family of ruling class of Mughals who took refuge in Bengal don’t assert their mughal ancestry they say we are Bengalis
This wannabe Arab or turk thing is something very unique about Punjabi Muslims
Sikhs on indian side of Punjab (as i hear) want to be associated with British , Canadians and Americans , they dye their hairs have got English names and prefer English food it’s common to hear names like Happy Singh , Santa Singh , Banta Singh etc on Indian side of Punjab
This inferiority complex is something very unique about Punjab I don’t know why

But those are minor things that arise out of Hollywood and Bollywood influences. I don't think one can weed everything out. At least the Sikhs and Hindus of Indian Punjab are proud of fundamental things like their language and they have not actually changed their religious attire despite being ridiculed which would otherwise put them in inferiority complexes. I am also impressed by the fact that they support each other. Their networking is huge. On the other hand, our Punjabis are the total polar opposite. Our food has been replaced with Nihari, Haleem, and Biryani which is Indian and the educated ones view the language as backward and for purposes of swearing and sense of humour. Also, our people are not supportive. They like to leg pull each other and get jealous if someone is successful.

I have always advocated Bengalis are different people. In fact one of the biggest reasons why Bengali movement started was due to language rights which Pakistan denied.