Why shouldn't we manufacture solar systems in Pakistan?

[DarkStar]

the govt announcements in the UK have been challenged by independant organisations.

 

[Vinod2070]

An Indian company "Moser Baer" has got into solar cell manufacturing in a big way.

I think its a bet for the future and is definitely worth taking for Pakistani companies too.

But a note of caution is in order. There was an article in TOI about another related problem with solar cells: The need for humongous land that it requires. Its not easy to get in India, even in the desert areas of Rajastan. Not sure if you guys can easily get that in Balochistan.

Singur's lessons for solar power

Whether or not the Nuclear Suppliers Group approves the Indo-US nuclear deal — this is unclear as I write this column — many experts think India
should focus on solar rather than nuclear power for the future. An excellent case for this was made recently in this newspaper by Anand Mahindra.

However, events at Singur and other places in West Bengal and Orissa give warning of huge popular resistance to land acquisition for future power plants. This will be a serious problem for nuclear power plants, because of radiation risks. And it may prove an insurmountable hurdle for solar power because of the huge acreage needed.

Solar energy is plentiful but dilute. Huge areas are needed to generate 1,000 MW of solar power. China commissions new generating capacity of 1,000 MW every week. In a decade, India too may need that much additional capacity every week. Experts foresee difficulties in getting enough coal and gas for such breakneck expansion beyond 2030.

Besides, fossil fuels generate huge greenhouse emissions. Will nuclear and renewable energy come to the rescue?

Consider solar technology. For decades, the emphasis was on photo-voltaic cells that directly convert sunlight into electricity. Photo-voltaic panels sit mainly on roofs, and need little land. But the best panels provide intermittent power at Rs 9/unit, four times the cost of coal-based power.

Far more promising is concentrated solar power (CSP). Parabolic mirrors, shaped as ultra-long troughs, concentrate sunlight onto a long tube of molten salts that store heat. This heat is then used in a conventional thermal power plant. The latest CSP plants aim to reduce the cost of electricity to Rs 4/unit. With improvements, CSP could be competitive with conventional electricity. Hence, Mahindra — and many others — think CSP is the energy of the future, not coal-based or nuclear power.

Most new experimental plants are coming up in the Mojave desert in the US, where the skies are cloudless and land is plentiful and cheap. India, too, has 170,000 sq miles of desert, says Mahindra. Instead of the current timid solar research programme in India, providing modest subsidies for small solar thermal plants up to 5 MW, Mahindra advocates big subsidies for plants of 50 MW and more, including hybrid plants using both solar and fossil fuel.

However, the existence of Indian deserts does not mean there is no land problem. Many past attempts to harness government-owned wasteland for plantations have been stalled by villagers, because what the government classifies as wasteland is used by them for grazing, collecting minor timber and produce, and as transport corridors. Villagers have spurned joint venture proposals in which paper companies offer them a share of the benefits — they simply do not trust the government or corporations.

Moreover, solar mirrors need water to wash off dust, and water is very scarce in a desert. Villagers will resist diversion of existing water sources to solar power projects.

How much land do CSP plants need? Consider the four biggest plants coming up in the US.
• A joint venture headed by Spain's Abengoa Solar will use 1,800 acres to generate 280 MW, starting 2011.
• Florida Power and Light will use parabolic mirrors over 2,012 acres to generate 250 MW.
• Stirling Energy Systems will use 4,500 acres to generate 500MW, upgradable to 850MW.
• Solel, an Israeli specialist, will use 6,000 acres to generate 553 MW.

So, a plant of 1,000 MW might need 10,000 acres. Can such huge areas of contiguous land be acquired easily? IAS officers familiar with Rajasthan tell me that, except for a few favourable locations, this will be difficult. If we want to commission 1,000 MW of new capacity every week, based on solar power, we will need first to acquire 10,000 acres per week!

Renewable energy is land-intensive. This has been highlighted dramatically by biofuels: diverting part of the US maize crop to fuel sparked a doubling of world food prices. The energy needed by a modern economy is enormous, and — given current technology — cannot be based mainly on land-intensive renewables.

Nuclear energy advocates will say ‘‘I told you so.'' But nuclear energy, too, faces formidable land problems. India's nuclear power plants are running at half capacity for want of uranium. Opening new uranium mines in Andhra Pradesh and Meghalaya is a top security priority, but has been stalled for years by protesting villagers. They have heard of deformed babies in villages surrounding the existing Jaduguda mines, and do not trust government assurances that mining in the two new locations will be safe.

Protests by villagers and greens have also delayed the Koodankulam nuclear power plant. Every new location will face major battles. Only expansion of capacity at existing locations will be trouble-free.

There are no easy solutions. Fossil fuels, nuclear fuels and renewable sources all pose problems. So, R&D incentives should be available for all technologies, instead of trying to pick winners in advance. We should let energy shortages be reflected in high prices. This will spur innovations that greatly reduce generation costs, or electricity demand, or both. Let a thousand ideas bloom.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/3453787.cms

 

[Awesome]

We need to somehow bring the cost of starting up with Solar energy down.

I once had a professional work out a plan for my house in Pakistan. He planned to foot me a bill for

1,600,000 rupees. But it was a massive plan.

My entire roof would've been transformed into holders for giant solar panels.

Of course couldn't afford it, had to let it go.

Seriously if you can resolve the energy problem in Pakistan, living in Pakistan could work for us spoiled overseas dudes.

I'm still working on a new plan. My goal is to power ONE AC, for free. Any suggestions?

 

[p2prada]

I'm still working on a new plan. My goal is to power ONE AC, for free. Any suggestions?

Maybe not an AC. But in my house we use solar panels to heat water. This saved the 6 kW of power needed to heat water using 3 water heaters with electricity(each water heater uses 2kW power). The bill comes down by atleast 20-30% and also the electricity company gives discounts for using solar water heaters at your homes.

The initial investment was Rs 30000.

 

[p2prada]

Why shouldn't we manufacture solar systems in Pakistan?

When I read the headline. I thought pakistan suddenly got the strange urge to build THE solar system.

 

[Awesome]

In Pak, gas is dirt cheap. Everyone has gas water heaters. It's just not worth going solar for heating.

When I'm in Pak during the winter, I think I keep the gas running for most of the day on small gas heaters. The bill is barely noticeable.

But its the cooling that's the issue. I mean sure some compromises can be worked out. Perhaps by using a water cooler. Still not the same thing as an AC.

You know what would be awesome? If I can be so rich as to buy of the house next door and convert it into this big giant solar panel station.

I'm just super interested in free electricity!

 

[DarkStar]

You'll still have the problem of using electricity during the hours when there is no sun. The kind of solar panels that may be able to get manufactured locally would be the standard versions which only convert 14 percent of the energy into usable electricity. The newer more efficient solar panel systems are all patented, and would not be easy to duplicate anyway.

Two main problems are the costs involved, and the amount of space needed to make it viable. And when the sun goes down, or it's raining you have to tap into the local electrical grid again.

When rich countries see the costs as too prohibitive, why would it be a good option for Pakistan? Pakistan does not have extraoardinarily long days either or much wind other than near the coast.

 

[p2prada]

In Pak, gas is dirt cheap. Everyone has gas water heaters. It's just not worth going solar for heating.

When I'm in Pak during the winter, I think I keep the gas running for most of the day on small gas heaters. The bill is barely noticeable.

But its the cooling that's the issue. I mean sure some compromises can be worked out. Perhaps by using a water cooler. Still not the same thing as an AC.

You know what would be awesome? If I can be so rich as to buy of the house next door and convert it into this big giant solar panel station.

I'm just super interested in free electricity!

Bajaj Electricals - Storage Water Heater

I am talking about these water heaters. They fit in your bathroom, near the ceiling. They heat upto 50 litres at a time. But they guzzle more electricity than the AC. You can stand in the shower for more than an hour.

But the solar heaters at home, like these

Research, Design & Development

The energy savings are more. My solar water heater heats upto 200 litres of water. The water flow is endless.
Almost every home in my area have solar water heaters.


You can perhaps switch to the solar heaters for water and also work on a generator for the AC. Double savings. Smaller electrical appliances will not take as much power as the AC or the storage water heaters.

Check this out.
Solar Energy Store

If your area is windy you can perhaps set up about 10 of these to generate 2kW of power. But each windmill costs $1100 + tax + customs.

More windmills
Solar Energy Store1

 

[BATMAN]

I'm still working on a new plan. My goal is to power ONE AC, for free. Any suggestions?

Hello Asim,
If you are building a new house than first look into building an energy efficient house (over all design).
When it comes to HVAC you need to consider insulation and less living area and accordingly planned lay out and automated utility management (controllers) shall also be considered.
Above steps would save you enough energy that may be required to power a small efficient AC unit.
In case when we plan to use solar power as an alternate for house utilities, we should first consider high efficiency and low power consumption appliances and lighting. If you are using solar electrical power as a backup system than an automatic transfer system is also a cost additive.

If i personally have to build a self sustained HVAC system than I would consider for geo thermal systems for heating in winter and cooling in summer.
In Pakistan we have at least six months where we don't need heating or air-conditioning.

Solar energy should not only be looked at as a replacement for expensive and unreliable state supply system.
It is a green source of energy and have the character of self sustainability.
From this point of view state should give incentives for installing such power systems (because state save cost in many ways) and UN should also support such ideas.

In prevalent Pakistani conditions, where running costs of house are not considered during design and construction phase. I suggest simply use gas generators as backup supply.
Other problem which I personally face every time I go for shopping for electrical appliance is that it lacks its electric data sheet and in case if it is available than it is not certified.

At the end everything is possible but I strongly recommend to design first everything on paper before embarking on construction and then adopting any system as a choice.

 

[BATMAN]

Dear Dark Star,
You have mentioned in your various posts that solar energy and wind energy are inefficient systems.
It is similar as counting hydal power as an inefficient system!
If we have no water dams than what is the efficiency factor?

Why such systems has been not developed over the years is because lack of interest and funding.

We in countries Pakistan, Bangladesh and India must not lose the opportunity to capitalize on this (solar / wind) abundance natural resource.
There is nothing wrong in using or developing solar & wind energy farms.
We not need to lay thousands of kilometers of cables but we should supply energy to the local populace in the radius of max. 100 km.

Any how hydal power is much better as it also helps to manage the water as a resource. We should also use rivers and water falls for converting to energy and this should be done at state level and solarproducts development should be left to private sector.

 

[eva syed]

i know the answer of all the queries regarding Pakistan,
We are the hollow men
we are the stuffed men
leaning together
headpiece filled with straw
Alas!
our dried voices, when
we whisper together
are quiet and meaningless
aswind in dry grass
or rats' feet over broken glass
in our dry cellar

 

[JK!]

Having just completed an entire module on Wind Power of my MEng Renewable Energy I'll add my two pence.

Wind Energy CAN work and it is a good form of energy. The problems with it are cost and the fact it is a comparatively new technology however, rapid advancements are being made.

For example wind turbines in the 1980s generated only a few KW of power and now at Emden Germany two Enercon E126s have been erected each with a 6+ MegaWatt generating capability.

Denmark is the world leader in this technology and by 2050 will mostly gain electrical energy from the wind.

The only issue for Pakistan with wind is the boom of the technology means there is a two to three year waiting list for turbines. Also the electricty grid would need to be upgraded especially if these are installed in rural areas.

For example the best wind resource for Europe is in Scotland but the landscape up there isn't covered in turbines because the UK national grid in Scotland is weak. This is being rectified but at cost.

The AEDB of Pakistan is working on Alternative Energy sources for Pakistan and wind power does feature in it. Last I checked this was the status:

First Wind Power project of Pakistan to come online soon.

The first wind power project of Pakistan is scheduled to be commissioned in December 2008. Zorlu Enerji Pakistan Ltd, a local subsidiary of Zorlu Enerji of Turkey, pursuing the development a 50 MW wind power project, will complete and commission the first phase of 06 MW in December 2008. Five turbines of 1.2 MW capacity each would be installed in this first phase. All the equipment including the rotor blades, towers, generators and other ancillary equipment has already arrived at site.

As for solar panels they are hideously inefficient and extremely expensive so until that technology leaves research phase and into maturity GO WITH THE WIND

 

[ejaz007]

Not really, Akhter Solar manufactuer and supply them in Pakistan based in Islamabad: Akhter Solar PLC

Also i know for a fact many businessess in Rawalpindi are flurishing selling PV panels with UPS systems to households due to the present loadshedding crisis. A basic system for a house costs between 10,000 - 15,000 and will power a few lightbulbs, fans, and TV incase the light goes out. This is quite cheaper compared to even the Chinese 15 HP Petrol Genny that will set you back roughly 26,000 PKR.

Anyway it was an excellent article and i just wanted to add my two cents.

Can you please provide any poof of your statement.

Last year during power crisis I tried a few companies dealing in solar power and was told that a solar power system capable of lighting some light bulbs, a fridge, a TV and one 1 HP motor would cost between 600,000 to 1.2 million depending upon the technology. This is for around 5 Kva set up.

Solar energy is still expensive and not affordable for normal house hold or small business otherwise all small businesses would have switched from diesel powered generators to solar power. Diesel generator now a days is costing around Rs. 20,000 excludign daily diesel cost.

One should also remember that their are maintenance costs associated with solar energy such as storage system and technology being foreign manufactured is expensive. All companies I spoke to admitted that this technoilogy is not affordable for house hold use at this time.