Why religion and politics don't go together.

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Brother, we should look inwards for the answer to this too. You live in Canada i assume. You will know other people who are Muslim who openly engage in haram, and others who live in the same society and refrain from it? What is the difference between these people? Some of it will be nature, opportunity etc - but a large part of it is Taqwa.

In our Muslim societies do we focus on Taqwa or do we focus on presenting an outward face of taqwa? Do we question our intention when we do acts of worship or refrain from haram? IDK about Afghanistan, but in Pakistan a lot of what we consider appropriate or not is underpinned by "dunya kya soche gi?!"

I have found so often that the focus when teaching Islamic values at a young age is reward and punishment, heaven and hell, - rather than love for Allah, or love of doing the right thing, or the impact on others of doing wrong. In our deen we are taught we can hope that our failures in huquq ul Allah, but only people can forgive our shortcomings in huqooq ul ibaad. You'd think that would lead to a focus on ensuring we don't wrong each other, but instead we have societies where everyone is out to get everyone else.

We need to correct this, this is as important as basic literacy.

Great post. I blame the literalist, Western style reading of our faith among our generation which has divorced us from our spiritual, contemplative soil.

Promotion of proper Sufism and poetry is key to recover the ground which our culture has lost to the Western onslaught.

It's a criticism against political islam, nothing to do with race. If political islam was as good as that guy says it is, he wouldn't need to leave a system of political islam to live under a totally opposite system of secular liberal democracy.

No country today has an Islamic system. Most of all, not Pakistan. It is a Western style system which only gives token lip service to Islam.

Bunch of guys walking on the street with shalimar kameez, beards, topis, and women in dupattas, niqabs, jilbabs does not make an Islamic system.

I understand your points and will consider them.



I came here as a kid when I was very young, I didn't choose to come here, but don't worry I will be leaving back the moment your soldiers leave from my country. You should tell your politicians that they stop interfering in our countries and stop creating false flags, then you won't be seeing our kind...

I hope more people like you go back to their countries in the future so that we can start the process of rebuilding our societies based on the correct values.

I have high hopes for Afghanistan once it is rid of Western funded Kabuli parasites. In sha Allah we can see a genuine Islamic system arise there.

 

[python-000]

Pakistan is Muslim State 90% of population is Muslim but liberals extremest want to see Pakistan as a secular state & shia extremest want to make Pakistan as Iran don't know where Pakistan is going...

 

[Lincoln]

Great post. I blame the literalist, Western style reading of our faith among our generation which has divorced us from our spiritual, contemplative soil.

Promotion of proper Sufism and poetry is key to recover the ground which our culture has lost to the Western onslaught.



No country today has an Islamic system. Most of all, not Pakistan. It is a Western style system which only gives token lip service to Islam.

Bunch of guys walking on the street with shalimar kameez, beards, topis, and women in dupattas, niqabs, jilbabs does not make an Islamic system.



I hope more people like you go back to their countries in the future so that we can start the process of rebuilding our societies based on the correct values.

I have high hopes for Afghanistan once it is rid of Western funded Kabuli parasites. In sha Allah we can see a genuine Islamic system arise there.

This is an endless argument so lets take a different approach.

Lets assume that an Islamic System is flawless. But according to you the reason no country with it is going to prosperity is because no country has adopted such a system.

So you're implying that Saudi political system and Iranian political system are not Shariah or Islamic System in its pure form.

So the question arises. What is an İslamic System. Can you even define it and every law there can be within.
Will women be given equal weight in testimonies? Should or should not the Hijab be compulsory? Does the state hold the Divine right to declare who is Muslim and who isn't? Are people who drink need to be punished? Is it compulsory to force the shut down of shops during prayer times? What about laws on rapes, will 4 witnesses suffice to prove a case of rape, how should the court proceedings be approached?

So, so much more. Every time you will find that scholars will conflict on what can be implemented and what can not.

 

[Longhorn]

It's ironic that something that was designed to be liberating and progressive has become oppressive and conservative to the point of backward yet it is espoused as the way forward.

Islam is a state of mind. No amount of self piety is going to alter that. It doesn't matter how much scripture you can quote if your mentality and your humanity is flawed. It doesn't matter how long your beard is if your human empathy, respect and understanding for the other doesn't exist. It doesn't matter how much you pray if you don't have the courage of your convictions to stand up for right against wrong.
Islam is so much more than talking the talk.
It is about values.

Khird ne keh bhi diya La,ilaah to kiya haasil,
Dil o nigaah musalmaan nahin to kuch bhi nahin.

 

[LeGenD]

How so?

On my street there are Muslims,Christians and Hindus all practising. On their religious celebrations they will give out food, maybe not the christians.

So what history are you looking at? I am looking at current reality.

You are from US correct? I travelled through California in the summer. San Francisco to LA via yosemite, Fresno and Bakersfield. Met Sikh and Muslims all doing their thing.

It gives them space to concentrate on their spirtual journey on a personal level rather than some blood lust world domination slay all the non believers ideology. Their happy, society is happy, everybody happy.

So I struggle to understand what history you are looking at. Unless you want to present medieval europe as an example? That is old news friend, so is the zenith of the Islamic empire. Its all relative.

UK is striving for its own British identity in which people from all manner of background are supposed to co-exist peacefully and serve the state as it see fit.

If that translate into loosing touch with your Islamic identity while living there, so be it.

British nationals might be happy with that but their values are not supposed to be ported into Pakistan because huge number of Pakistani nationals are not necessarily happy with Islamic values being increasingly questioned by advocates of secularism who wish to spread immorality in Pakistan and Pakistani leadership not paying heed to this filth.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Why do you always derail these threads brain dead salafist.

The issue is not Islam, it is corrupted men politicizing it for their gain.

The topic is keeping religion and politics seperate, not doing away with religion so present your thoughts without being a jahil.

I will give you an example. Look at India, it has been radicalized with RSS hindu ideology and you can see their politics is being perverted. It is not exclusive to you.

You make some valid points. However, we also have to state facts( even if they might sound controversial nowadays). I agree with @Mutakalim . The thing is that most Abrahamic religions are all encompassing. So if you accept that said religion you have to be honest with yourself and accept if wholeheartedly and follow all its rules (if you can lol ). In an ideal world every individual who follows a religion have to adhere to their religious scriptures even if there might be some verses which they don't really agree with or which they think is not right /practical etc. The main problem with religious people (the ones who claim to be ardent/ faithful followers)nowadays is that most of them are hypocrites and those who are not are often regarded as extremists. Lol.
The hypocritical ones tend to cherry pick those religious scriptures or verses that suits them and live by it while disregarding or avoiding altogether those verses which they find impractical/controversial or even unacceptable. While the later ones who tend to follow their religious scriptures by the word (according to their own interpretation as well) will often be regarded as extremists. Lol
So @Mutakalim is right in saying that if you have accepted a religion and claim to be a fervent member of that religion you ought to follow all your religious scriptures whether you agree with some or all of them or not. This is also the Dilemma with religion. Since religion demands total and unquestionable faith, loyalty and belief from its members and so you can't really question/criticise some of the things that your religious scriptures proclaim. For example the fact that religions in general(not just Islam) are patriarchal as you mentioned before , many people will say it's not a good thing in the modern world we live in, and that men and women have to be treated equally and given the same rights. However religions have a different view and laws, so this creates some sort of paradox for some religious members who might have a different opinion to what their scriptures say. Same with the concept of separation of politics and religion(to many Abrahamic religiona for example a member has to adhere to his religious scriptures and his way of life has to abide by his holy book) or even nationalism. As far as I know, Islam is against nationalism itself but many Muslims are very nationalistic and even proud of it, yet they will still proclaim themselves as Muslims . So I believe that's the point Mutalik was trying to make which I agree with.

In short I believe many religious people nowadays are quite hypocrites to be honest. They pick those things they like or agree with in their religion, while disregarding or turning a blind eye to those things they don't really agree with or find controversial, and they will sometimes still try and preach to others about their religion or how right they are. Lol it's a tricky one to be honest.
Even Western countries have come to terms with this, reason they separated religion from politics and adopted secularism which to be honest if we were to call ourselves a Christian country and follow our religious scriptures by the word we wouldn't have adopted these policies which goes against our own religion . However at least many western countries are now honest with themselves and they don't claim to be a model fervent Christian country neither do their people claim to be righteous or faithful in following their religious beliefs.

 

[Malik Alpha]

People all around the glob praise the west, but ignore their moral depravity, Homosexuality on the rise, LGBTQ, public drunkenness, mothers having slept with multiple men before having children, 50%+ divorce rate, cutting ties between families and friends (senior homes), I could write 5 pages on this, but you get the idea.

Ask yourself whether or not this is what all progressive countries have in common? Look at LA, the height of progressiveness, it's heaven for those who are rich, but hell for those who are poor.

I've noticed this trend between all developing countries, whenever they reach a height of progressiveness, there is without a doubt moral depravity that follows. Progressiveness is not a one way deal, there are certain sacrifices that you'd have to make for it and they are often moral sacrifices.

This is not to say that we shouldn't progress, rather, are we willing to give up our beliefs at the cost of it? You speak of the negativities of Muslim nations, but don't speak about the positivities of it, your nation Pakistan wouldn't be here if not for Islam, and the only thing holding it together is Islam.

Few days ago my American friend told me about his foster children and how their parents are drug addicts and if they get clean then they can have their kids back. Even tho we are not a developed country but our society is free from this BS. Thanks to Islamic values we don't need anti depressants and anti anxiety pills in late 20s.

And this filthy poster who mocks the concept of Jihad and Ummah could be a cuck or even a gandu we never know.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

They simply don't go together because their roles are different. Politics is about the state trying to provide welfare for the people. Religion helps people discover their true selfs and attain enlightenment. Although I believe that religion is not necessarily required for us to be a good person or attain enlightenment. Morality has existed since a long time. You can even find morality among animals if we look closely.

 

[Lincoln]

Few days ago my American friend told me about his foster children and how their parents are drug addicts and if they get clean then they can have their kids back. Even tho we are not a developed country but our society is free from this BS. Thanks to Islamic values we don't need anti depressants and anti anxiety pills in late 20s.

And this filthy poster who mocks the concept of Jihad and Ummah could be a cuck or even a gandu we never know.

Lmaoooooo, you do know Karachi is where the 2nd highest amount of Marijuana is smoked.

Ever heard of Kalashnikov culture? You do know what came with it, right? Drugs are not as rampant, but they are really rampant.

Now instead of the USA where subcultures have dominated the scene thanks to trashy music, why don't you compare Nordic, Slavic and also Asian countries.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Just look at this. Please tell me what has Islam got to do with this? Why is religion being used for political purposes? This is why religion should be kept away from politics. JUI-F as we know is a religious party and espouses Islam. Mullah Deisel is shamelessly using religion and his brainwashed students from madaris as tools in cheap lust for power and greed.

What next? Give power to Mullah Diesel and declare him Caliph? I am sure that would give people like @Mutakalim orgasms but that would be a recipe for disaster. If not him we would get another mullah from Diesel's ilk becoming the Caliph and unleshing a caliphate on Pakistan.

What is an İslamic System

It is the best. It is a dream. I can honestly say it is better then anything else. But only problem is it only lives in my dream. I can't seem to apply it in real life. Well, we did 1,300 years ago under the Rashidun caliphate but ever since we been chasing it. And will continue chasing it.

 

[Lincoln]

Just look at this. Please tell me what has Islam got to do with this? Why is religion being used for political purposes? This is why religion should be kept away from politics. JUI-F as we know is a religious party and espouses Islam. Mullah Deisel is shamelessly using religion and his brainwashed students from madaris as tools in cheap lust for power and greed.

What next? Give power to Mullah Diesel and declare him Caliph? I am sure that would give people like @Mutakalim orgasms but that would be a recipe for disaster. If not him we would get another mullah from Diesel's ilk becoming the Caliph and unleshing a caliphate on Pakistan.

It is the best. It is a dream. I can honestly say it is better then anything else. But only problem is it only lives in my dream. I can't seem to apply it in real life. Well, we did 1,300 years ago under the Rashidun caliphate but ever since we been chasing it. And will continue chasing it.

These people are under actual distress due to horrible Government. This has less to do with religion and more to do with inflation and bad government.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

These people are under actual distress due to horrible Government. This has less to do with religion and more to do with inflation and bad government.

What? Only bearded JUI-F talibs are under economic hardship? Is inflation only screwing bearded people? The fact is and you know it, Mullah Diesel is behind this and is out to secure his political position and is using Islam and economy to do this. Shameless !

Gora pa-ki living in posh ends of London

Kala pa-ki living in Gora-istan in a filthy ghetto subject of Goree Queen eating from a economy controlled by Jewish bankers.

now go home and eat pork.

I am a vegetarian. No thanks. Now you go and groom some under age girl with some street drugs.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Yes?

 

[Yankee-stani]

What? Only bearded JUI-F talibs are under economic hardship? Is inflation only screwing bearded people? The fact is and you know it, Mullah Diesel is behind this and is out to secure his political position and is using Islam and economy to do this. Shameless !

Kala pa-ki living in Gora-istan in a filthy ghetto subject of Goree Queen eating from a economy controlled by Jewish bankers.

I am a vegetarian. No thanks. Now you go and groom some under age girl with some street drugs.

I think we come from similar backgrounds tbh, I grew up barley with Pakistanis mostly with other Asians,Jews or just Goras lol,

Even though most Pakistanis here are middle class and educated even if it I still cant relate that much

 

[khawar khurshid]

The affairs of our state are not running on religion, rather it is running through secular ways of governance, which we inherited from British Raj. Responsibility of our problems lies on those people who are running these affairs, which are unfortunately seculars.