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Why Pakistan is in trouble?

Stick to article writing - comedy is not your strong point and I realize that the argument I presented got the better of you, you are not used to fashioning arguments and you are not aware of the quality of the arguments you will have to defend against - I wish you good luck, it will more hard work if you resist what you must accept and internalize -- and while you are at it - consider what does it mean to be a muslim:


After the flogging
Suroosh Irfani


While many critics termed the flogging barbaric and an affront to Islam, the Taliban and their supporters justified the flogging, and insisted it accorded with sharia law. Critics contested this claim by noting that the Taliban’s understanding of sharia law negated the basic requirements of the sharia the Taliban claimed to uphold.

Sharia law lays down rigorous requirements for ascertaining the facts of a case, and the procedures for administering punishment. Moreover, the immaculate moral character required of the four witnesses for confirming penetration are so meticulous that even former Chief Justice of Pakistan Syed Sajjad Ali Shah reportedly said he doubted if he could measure up to the sublime standards of virtue required of a witness in such a case.

While the debate is bound to continue, it is important to note that the spontaneous outrage that swept across several Pakistani cities after the flogging video was aired reflects the first nationwide condemnation of the Taliban. Indeed, the young woman’s screams under Taliban blows were a stark reminder of blown up schools, beheaded bodies, suicide bombings, and a million people forced out of Swat over the last sixteen months — a track record of barbarism that won Swat for the Taliban
.

However, the basic paradox that underpins the Taliban’s sharia remains unresolved: the intimidation and violence leading to its enforcement is an outright negation of the Islamic spirit itself. Therefore, the MQM’s abstention from voting on the Nizam-e Adl Regulation in parliament on April 13 is justified.

Moreover, Sufi Muhammad, leader of the Tehreek-e Nifaz-e Shariat-e Muhammadi, who now controls Swat, might well have a very different understanding of sharia from that of trained Islamic jurists. The latter view sharia as “the sum total of technical, legal methodologies, precedents, and decisions”, where the interaction of hadith with legal methodology to produce jurisprudence is an ongoing process.

However, rather than a trained jurist’s sharia, Sufi Muhammad’s sharia seems an all purpose kit, doling out instant punishments, foreswearing introspection, and a refusal to acknowledge the wrongs one has been a party to in the name of Islam. An example is his interview with the Daily Times last month (March 19, 2009).

When asked whether the actions of Swat’s school-blasting warlord Fazlullah were un-Islamic (haram), Sufi said, “the debate on past happenings is disallowed in Islam; a hadith sharif says what has happened in the past should not be discussed”.

Citing another hadith, he further explained that “a Muslim should not discuss past happenings because he may not remember all the (details) and therefore, he may...sin by not speaking the truth.”

Given the coverage Fazullah’s statements and doings received in the electronic and print media over the last couple of years, details of his war crimes could be retrieved, and especially against the army in terms of soldiers killed or beheaded. Therefore, the ‘sin’ of not remembering details seems no more than a lame excuse.

However, there was more to Sufi Muhammad’s interview: he seemed heedless of human conscience and reparative justice. The plight of aggrieved families who lost innocent members during the Taliban’s onslaught on Swat seemed of no concern to him. When asked what measures he was taking to give justice to these families, Sufi invoked his standard response again, saying, “We will not discuss what has happened in the past. Sharia does not allow this.”


Such distortion of sharia that erases history, conscience, and the very essence of justice in the name of Islam amounts to the betrayal of Islam itself.

Such betrayal, were it to go unchallenged, would amount to a “greater sin” in the struggle to wrest Islam from the extremists, going by Khalid Abou el Fadl’s arguments in The Great Theft: Wrestling Islam from the extremists. (HarperOne, 2005)

Fadl’s book is a clarion call to Muslims to rise against the challenge of extremists holding Islam hostage. An accomplished Islamic jurist and professor of law at the UCLA Law School, Fadl’s book is the most comprehensive account yet published comparing and contrasting a ‘puritanical orientation’ in Islam, represented by the Wahhabi-Salafi consensus, on the one hand, and the ‘moderate orientation’ of the silent Muslim majority on the other.

Whether propounded by extremist groups, Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e Tayyaba, TNSM or the Tehreek-e Taliban Pakistan, the ‘puritanical orientation’ is a supremacist ideology “that compensates for feelings of defeatism, disempowerment and alienation with a sense of self-righteous arrogance vis-à-vis the ‘other’ — whether that other is the West, nonbelievers in general, Muslims, or even women.”


At the same time, puritanism is alienated not only from modernity, “but also from Islamic heritage and tradition, literature, aesthetics, music, mysticism, intellectual and cultural history. Religious texts are used “like a shield to avoid criticism or escape challenges that mandate the use of reason and rationality” — as the TNSM chief’s interview amply shows. Indeed, for puritans, “religious texts [are] whips” wielded to further the aims of regressive forces in society.

Puritans “use the inherited tradition and law to silence their opponents and stunt critical and creative thinking.” However, they “are ignorant of jurisprudential theory and methodology, and therefore treat law in whimsical and opportunistic fashion. They search through thousands of statements and sayings attributed to the Prophet [pbuh] in order to find anything that they could use to support their already preconceived positions.”

Given the puritans’ ignorance of psychological and cultural dynamics in textual interpretation, they end up projecting “their social and political frustrations and insecurities upon the text”. Consequently, “if a puritan is angry at the West, he will read the religious text in such a way as to validate this hostility. And if he needs to compensate for feelings of powerlessness by dominating women, he’ll read the text to validate the subjugation and disempowerment of women.”

In fact, “in every situation we find that the proverbial arm of the text is being twisted to validate whatever the puritan orientation wishes to do. All along the puritan claims to be entirely literal and objective and faithfully implement what the text demands without personal interference.”

Fadl further notes that given the intellectual vacuum in the Muslim world, “virtually every Muslim with a modest knowledge of the Quran and the tradition of the Prophet [pbuh] considers [himself] qualified to speak for Islamic tradition and sharia law.”


Small wonder then that the leaders of Wahhabi-Salafi movements such as Al Qaeda, LeT and Jama’at-ud Dawa are not trained jurists but “engineers or medical doctors”. Such self-proclaimed jurists have reduced Islam to a combustible mix of intolerance, hatred and isolationist arrogance, exploding across the world, but most notably among Muslims themselves.

The misuse of sharia, therefore, calls for differentiating between “sharia as a technical, legal system” and “sharia as a symbol of Islamic legitimacy”. That sharia as a symbol is being misused by puritan extremists is as much reflected in the arbitrary fatwas of Al Qaeda as the flogging in Swat.

The question is whether the Supreme Court of Pakistan will remain indifferent following the TNSM and TTP threat that any member of the National Assembly opposed to the Taliban’s sharia will cease to be a Muslim
.


Suroosh Irfani is an educationist and writer based in Lahore
 
Dear,

No offence but I think you should redo the article. Throw out the middle eastern and other things and only focus on Pakistan.

You have missed a lot of other aspects of why Pakistan is in trouble.

Regards,
 
Enigma

I want you to stop being pouty and rededicate yourself to your project, other too have written to you to continue - in our earlier conversation we spoke of several problems - we have dealt with, in the sense that you can now better express and organize the issue of misuing or abusing Shar'iah - below is an article from today's The News -- you will see that my earlier post was spot on -- and your' paper can use these ideas in the review:

Start of the victory march?



Thursday, April 16, 2009
Kamila Hyat

The writer is a freelance columnist and former newspaper editor

FONT="Arial"]It seems more and more apparent that the Taliban are now winning. There is evidence of this everywhere; the distant sound of triumphant bugles – or whatever instruments the extremist use to mark victory--can sometimes be heard in the distance if we **** our ears.

From Swat, where the ANP "deal" with the men of Maulana Fazaullah has meant they have effectively won in the area, the Taliban have fanned out to neighbouring Buner and Dir. Their promises to quit the area have not been kept. Local people have made attempts to fight them off, with limited success. They have received little or no support in this endeavour from the authorities. The federal government remained under extreme pressure to sign the Nizam-e-Adl regulation that would set up Qazi courts in Swat. President Zardari – who is reported to have promised the US Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke that he will not put his name on the dotted line – is accused of sabotaging "peace" in Swat and blocking the provincial government's efforts to establish it.

A dangerous divide seems to be cropping up. On one side we have the prime minister, backed by the Army chief, adopting a tough, anti-US line in recent statements and in their assertive response to demands made by US officials. This, of course, is to be welcomed, given that US engagement in the region since 2001 has fanned militancy in the tribal areas. The wisdom behind the drone strikes has been questioned in Washington and elsewhere. But is there inherent in the line being taken by the ANP, the prime minister and others an intrinsic acceptance that the Taliban represent the winning side and it is wise to line up with them rather than against them?

Strategists in key corridors of power in Islamabad are said to be suggesting that Pakistan's interests lie in forming a front against India, with Taliban backing. The military's lack of success against the fanatical fighters in Swat, in Bajaur and elsewhere is thought to be a factor in this. So too is the forecast that the Taliban could regain control of Afghanistan, and as in the past they should be looked on as allies in that region and a means to counter New Delhi's influence in Kabul. In other words, the US and India would be cast in the role of "bad" guys, the Taliban projected as "good guys." The readiness to accept the insane order they have proposed for Swat is a sign of this new, and dangerous, mindset.

Buoyed by it, the extremists are looking further afield, well beyond the tribal areas that had till now been their domain. There have been threats to schools in both Lahore and Islamabad. In Punjab the chief minister has taken note of these and advised schools to step up security, though he has not said what his own government intends to do to control law and order. There is talk of setting up CCTV cameras and security gates at entry points. Co-ed schools are stated to top the terrorist hit list; messages texted to parents seem to be intended to create panic. This, in the past, has been a ploy used by agencies. It seems plausible they are once more working in collusion with the Taliban.

Coinciding with this is what appears to be a very deliberate act to undermine the government, and specifically the reconciliation effort announced by President Zardari just days ago, in Balochistan. The grotesque murder of the three nationalist leaders there was obviously intended to create a crisis on a new front. This has happened immediately, with riots wracking the country's largest province. It seems impossible to believe the events were not carefully contrived and put into place by experts. The intent seems to be to make Pakistan even more ungovernable than it already is.

There is deepening suspicion that the country is quickly spiralling out of all control. Opinions to this effect have been expressed in the international press and voiced at key meetings. President Barack Obama has now pinpointed Pakistan's frontier with Afghanistan as the most dangerous region in the world. In Washington, there is said to be a mounting sense of panic over how to handle Pakistan and whether Asif Ali Zardari, a man who has aligned himself with Washington, is the right person for the job. On his latest visit to a country he himself admits he struggles to understand, Richard Holbrooke asked many he met if they thought Zardari should be removed, and if so, how. The increased US interest in the Sharifs demonstrates the same line of thinking.

The time has come to face up to some facts. At present, like players in a game featuring two teams, people seem to have been split into two camps. One side favours the Taliban, the other argues victory over them is possible only with US assistance. On this basis, they hold, it would be unwise to shunt out Washington. Pakistan at present cannot hope to win the war on terror alone
.


There may be in this some truth. But the fact also is that the US is reviled by most people in Pakistan. This is not true only of the increasing number who seem mentally ready to accept that a new kind of order must be ushered in, whether in Swat or elsewhere; nor do these numbers comprise of extremists like the "students" allegedly involved in a terror plot in Britain.

Most ordinary Pakistanis loathe the US – for what its policies have done to their country, changing it over the past three decades almost beyond recognition -- and for their unjust strategies in the Middle East. But they also loathe and resent the Taliban. This was demonstrated in last year's general election when few votes trickled in for pro-militant parties and it has also been proven in the angry actions against the Taliban in Dir, Bajaur, Buner and elsewhere.


We need leaders, then, who can recognise the potential power of people. They have the capacity to overcome extremists and to do so far more effectively than the Americans. Somehow they need to be brought fully into the fight rather than kept relegated to the sidelines as has been the case so far. Their need to be permitted to make their country their own, for after all it should belong to them and not either to the Americans or the Taliban.

For this to happen, we need policies that are directed primarily towards serving the interests of people. Our political leaders need to align themselves with these citizens rather than striking dodgy deals with other forces. This has still to happen – and only if it does can Pakistan hope to escape the crises that threaten to overtake it and a situation in which extremist forces take hold of more and more facets of life in villages, towns and cities everywhere
.[/FONT]

Email: kamilahyat@hotmail.com
 
Dear,

No offence but I think you should redo the article. Throw out the middle eastern and other things and only focus on Pakistan.

You have missed a lot of other aspects of why Pakistan is in trouble.

Regards,

Thnx for the critisism. i know i have missed many things, but intentially addressing everything was not the aim.

i only intended to bring out one side of the story.

Well the education system, judiciary, police, self-discipline, moral grooming, corruption, poverty, mis handling of many, undoing the wrong done to certain people etc etc and many other things was not made part of the article deliberately.

The only that i wanted to highlight was the main causes which ultimately leads to most the problems mentioned above.

You want to beleive it, thank you, if not you are welcome again.

Nothing in the article is self made up, everything is documented and on record. i just managed to put them all together.

Moreover, as you point out about the Middle East, i appreciate that, but i just added that part to relate the Western approach to certain things, which now have emerged inside of around Pakistan and due to which similar steps are being taken by them again. It was just to serve as an eye opener was an attempt to show you the big picture, that's it.

BTW, i am not a professional writer or columnist, so perfection is still seem quite far away.
 
Mr Muse, leaving apart every arguement, why dont you suggest us all, your course of action to till with the problems of Pakistan, so that atleast we can know what you have in your kitty.

Consider yourself the President for today :)
 
And again, this piece from the News from today -- and again, note the ideas presented to you were spot on -- this one deals with what the people of Pakistan sense as their betrayal -- Army must change this sense or else the army can rot in the barracks and Pakistani will not care - you can influence readers, rise above your "feelings", they will pass, there is responsibility to consider, you SERVED ONCE, YOU CAN BE OF SERVICE TO PAKISTAN Again:


Nizam-e-Adl in Swat



Thursday, April 16, 2009
Zafar Hilaly

The surrender of Swat politically was as humiliating as that of Dacca was militarily. It matters not that Adl is good or bad, barbaric or Islamic; or that court judgements will be super-quick or delayed; or whether presiding officials are called Qazis or Justices. What matters is that the agreement was extracted by force and specifically by the slaughter, amputations, abductions, rape and terrorising of innocent citizens.

Again it matters not that once upon a time the laws and practices under Adl existed as part of the customary law of Swat. So did suttee in India; infanticide in Arabia and karo-kari in Pakistan but they will never be enacted into law notwithstanding demands of locals or a parliamentary resolution. But it is unconscionable that Swati women should be denied education and work when no less a person than the Prophet (pbuh) permitted it in Islam.

Muslim Khan, the ubiquitous Taliban spokesman announced gleefully that there would be more executions, showing off a list of those the Taliban want to try under the new Adl Courts. His list included senior government servants, a woman whose husband serves in the US military and many others.

Already Swat is full of Taliban militants, who in due course will invite drone attacks. They will go about their deadly task; in which case Nizam-e-Adl will have brought death and destruction rather than peace to Swat.


Within a day of the accord being announced the Taliban spokesman said that contrary to what was agreed the Taliban in Swat would not surrender their weapons on the grounds that Islam permitted the carrying of weapons. The ANP spokesman quickly explained that what the Taliban spokesman had meant was that "personal weapons" would not be surrendered. Earlier, Muslim Khan had made the Taliban forsaking weapons conditional on "the enforcement of Sharia on the ground by the government" when no such condition was included in the infamous agreement with the ANP. We look forward to viewing the cache of weapons comprising rocket launchers, rocket propelled grenades, ground-to-air missiles, anti-tank mines, mortars, etc, surrendered by the Taliban in Swat. One suspects that we won't ever get to see them, for the simple reason that none will be surrendered.

The Taliban spokesman further stated that the Taliban would abide by the decision of the Qazi in all matters. As if a Qazi selected, monitored and supervised by the existing Taliban-friendly administration in Swat (headed by the current commissioner, reportedly an avid Maulana Sufi/Taliban loyalist) will act in defiance of their wishes. However, for the rest of the population defying the Qazi's verdict, the Taliban spokesman said, would amount to kufr, a crime that carries the death penalty.

With the acceptance of the Adl demand the fear that extremism may overwhelm Pakistan has been replaced by the certitude that it will. Lives are being planned accordingly and so too investments. Sadness stalks the land. It is heart-wrenching to have a countryman walk up and ask "Sir, please tell me what should we do. What will become of us?"

In moments of national stress the people look to their leaders and in moments of national peril to the armed forces. In Pakistan today neither is evident
.

Of the national leadership, including that of the opposition, the less said the better. The stifling of debate on the legislation in Parliament notwithstanding the historic nature of the Adl law which virtually creates a state within a state; the decision to forego secret balloting meant that many, perhaps the majority of MNAs, who opposed the law were silenced. Or was it that terrified by the Taliban threat to kill those who did not support the legislation, MNA's thought that discretion was the better part of valour and opted for a voice vote? Whatever the reason the haste in which the law was approved was undignified and reflects Parliament's weird notion of where lies its duty to the electorate.

Of the Army, public expectations were high and hence the disappointment greater. If the truth be told one of the largest standing armies in the world, with nuclear weapons to boot, is in headlong retreat. A rag tag gang of ruthless killers has it on the run.

Pakistanis are waking up to the prospect that they have no one to defend them but themselves. As one recently retired major, discounting any opposition by the establishment to the seemingly irresistible advances of the Taliban, said: "Oil your guns, Sir, and keep the ammo handy; it is we, the public, who will have to do the fighting."

It seems that the crucial psychological moment when a people and a society take destiny in their own hands is happening. By the time this process, whether forced on them by circumstances or undertaken by their own will is completed, Pakistan would have changed, nay been irretrievably transformed. One can only pray that the metamorphosis that takes place will be for the better.


The writer is a retired ambassador. Email: charles123it@hotmail.com
 
MUSE:i m still waiting for your Presidential debut...
 
:rofl::rofl:

Coming soon to an asylum near you:cheers:

I do seriously hope you will review the piece in the light of the sense you have seen, that while I presented it, is really a sense that the nation is being consumed by.
 
Enigma

I think there not two points of view with regard to what the Indian is upto in Afghanistan -- What the Indian is doing is attempting to further his national interests at the cost of Pakistani national interests -- but ithat s the name of the game ---Pakistan need to play the game better instead of asking that the Indian give up his advantage. The only way Pakistan can play the game better is by being strong at home ---- External policy is a reflection of the internal, it's strength comes from the internal. What is Pakistan's internal weakness? The trash political system in which politicians destablize the sitting govt every quarter and the threat to the state itself, that 800 pound Gorilla we talked about earlier, the one, you sem unable to acknowledge, yes, unfortunately, the Islamist terrorists.

In her "Start of Victory March?" (see above), Kamila Hyat suggests:

Strategists in key corridors of power in Islamabad are said to be suggesting that Pakistan's interests lie in forming a front against India, with Taliban backing. The military's lack of success against the fanatical fighters in Swat, in Bajaur and elsewhere is thought to be a factor in this. So too is the forecast that the Taliban could regain control of Afghanistan, and as in the past they should be looked on as allies in that region and a means to counter New Delhi's influence in Kabul. In other words, the US and India would be cast in the role of "bad" guys, the Taliban projected as "good guys." The readiness to accept the insane order they have proposed for Swat is a sign of this new, and dangerous, mindset.

Buoyed by it, the extremists are looking further afield, well beyond the tribal areas that had till now been their domain. There have been threats to schools in both Lahore and Islamabad. In Punjab the chief minister has taken note of these and advised schools to step up security, though he has not said what his own government intends to do to control law and order. There is talk of setting up CCTV cameras and security gates at entry points. Co-ed schools are stated to top the terrorist hit list; messages texted to parents seem to be intended to create panic. This, in the past, has been a ploy used by agencies. It seems plausible they are once more working in collusion with the Taliban


Pakistanis by and large will not agree to cut off their own nose to spite their enemy - there are better ways to counter Indian influence and the solution for which is a strong Pakistan internally and that internal strength reflected outward.
 
Enigma

I think there not two points of view with regard to what the Indian is upto in Afghanistan -- What the Indian is doing is attempting to further his national interests at the cost of Pakistani national interests -- but ithat s the name of the game ---Pakistan need to play the game better instead of asking that the Indian give up his advantage. The only way Pakistan can play the game better is by being strong at home ---- External policy is a reflection of the internal, it's strength comes from the internal. What is Pakistan's internal weakness? The trash political system in which politicians destablize the sitting govt every quarter and the threat to the state itself, that 800 pound Gorilla we talked about earlier, the one, you sem unable to acknowledge, yes, unfortunately, the Islamist terrorists.

You already posted this somewhere esle, anywaz, i do acknowledge the menace of talibnization and extremism that is currently being gaining more power than ever.

Moreover, i also understand what harm our politicians have done to the country. They are just a bunch of idiots looking for power to get more luxeries. With their money and factories elsewhere they give a damn to the country. Their only attraction is money and power which they want to get at all the cost whether it includes upsurge of the other sound political govt.

Some fault also lies in the military to frequently intervention in country's political affairs, but again one could have argued that there was no other way out, but some may argue that the system should have been let as it was so that they should have learnt the lesson through hard way and ultimately after getting filtered the political system in the country would have brought down to TWO party system (as in many developed countries).

But the fact remains that it didn;t happen and the worst thing is that our politicians haven't learnt a bit from the history still now!
In her "Start of Victory March?" (see above), Kamila Hyat suggests:

Strategists in key corridors of power in Islamabad are said to be suggesting that Pakistan's interests lie in forming a front against India, with Taliban backing. The military's lack of success against the fanatical fighters in Swat, in Bajaur and elsewhere is thought to be a factor in this. So too is the forecast that the Taliban could regain control of Afghanistan, and as in the past they should be looked on as allies in that region and a means to counter New Delhi's influence in Kabul. In other words, the US and India would be cast in the role of "bad" guys, the Taliban projected as "good guys." The readiness to accept the insane order they have proposed for Swat is a sign of this new, and dangerous, mindset.

Buoyed by it, the extremists are looking further afield, well beyond the tribal areas that had till now been their domain. There have been threats to schools in both Lahore and Islamabad. In Punjab the chief minister has taken note of these and advised schools to step up security, though he has not said what his own government intends to do to control law and order. There is talk of setting up CCTV cameras and security gates at entry points. Co-ed schools are stated to top the terrorist hit list; messages texted to parents seem to be intended to create panic. This, in the past, has been a ploy used by agencies. It seems plausible they are once more working in collusion with the Taliban


Pakistanis by and large will not agree to cut off their own nose to spite their enemy - there are better ways to counter Indian influence and the solution for which is a strong Pakistan internally and that internal strength reflected outward.

What ever that you said above doesn't corresponds to the actions taken by TNSM in Swat (when they were blowing up girls schools). It was just another mode of terrorism. First the Army, then the airforce, the FC, Police, Sri Lankan team and now the schools and ambulances (because they are considered soft targets) So there is no connection between the two.
 
Oh and yes i missed the indian part.

If you carefully see my first article and compare it with the second one, you will find that i have skipped the recommendation part in the second one. i did this deliberately. The reason being that there were certain things which i would not like to discuss.

As of your concern regarding of indian involvement in Afghanistan and furtherance of its foreign policy, yes they are at liberty to do that. We have been doing it, then who stops them from doing it.

And yes we do require to play a better game in Afghanistan to get them at our back, which speaking frankly we have failed to.

One of the most obvious reason that i can cite is the present governmental setup in Afghanistan.

They all are india centric by default. The reasons for these are already mentioned in the second article, but the reason that i missed was:

The personalities that form the Northern Alliance later, were the one who were not opposed to the Soviet invasion, or i must say they were part of the puppet government installed by the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan.

We kicked them out, thereby indirectly pinching the pro-Soviet government, thus after the fall of Talibans (who were by the way 'friendly' to us) when we turned our back to Talibans our non-friends(the Northern Alliance-to whom we opposed with the CIA help when it drove the Soviets out) came into power, so it is obvious that they don't side with us.

We have to do more to get our western borders friendly, otherwise it could become a nightmare!
 
Last edited:
This was taken from another thread.
Muse:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/353283-post1.html

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan—The United States Central Intelligence Agency faces its toughest test yet to prove wrong the suspicions of many within the Pakistani strategic community that some of the terrorism exported from Afghan soil into Pakistan has direct or indirect support from Washington.

The immediate test centers on Baitullah Mehsud, the leader of the bandits who present themselves as Pakistani Taliban. The Americans have begun some cosmetic drone attacks on Baitullah’s territory and there are reports Washington has agreed to launch a joint operation with Pakistan against this bandit. The purpose is to assuage Pakistani concerns about the U.S. role. In July last year, Pakistan’s military leadership confronted senior CIA and U.S. military commanders with evidence showing Washington indirectly protecting anti-Pakistan terrorists on the ground. This newspaper broke that story on Aug. 5, 2008, with a front page headline, ‘US told not to back terrorism against Pakistan’.


For quite some time now, some Pakistani officials have reason to believe that not everything the Americans have been and continue to do in our region is shared with or has the consent of Pakistan, their supposed ally in this war.

Mehsud is a good example.

This bandit and his former leader and associate, Abdullah Mehsud, pioneered the attacks on Chinese interests in Pakistan, which was the first thing Abdullah did after being released from Gitmo in 2003. Interestingly, he was not handed back to Pakistan despite being a Pakistani citizen but was released to Afghanistan where he went back into the custody of U.S. military and the Karzai government. Abdullah was killed not on his home turf but when Pakistani security forces caught him sneaking back into Balochistan from a secret visit to Afghanistan, where he most probably was meeting his handlers. How he financed, armed and sustained a 25,000-strong militia remains beyond explanation. This militia continues to have quality arms and generous funding. Until now CIA drones have never targeted Abdullah or Baitullah or any other militia that is committed to attacking Pakistan. During the operations in Bajaur, our soldiers were reportedly stunned at one point to see close to 600 well armed terrorists come in from Afghanistan, fight the Pakistani military and then escape across the border. CIA never attacks such ‘terrorists’. There has been a meteoric rise in the number of anti-Pakistan militias and fighters within our tribal belt since 2004 and onwards, complete with religious brainwashing justifying the killing of Pakistanis as a first priority. This has coincided with the launch of terrorism in Balochistan and northern Pakistan, engulfing the area between Gwadar port and the Chinese border.

There are reasons to believe that, in order to punish the real or imaginary Pakistani tolerance for ‘Afghan Taliban’ – the real Taliban, I must add – someone who wields power in Afghanistan decided to make Pakistan pay by grooming their own Islamic fighters who’d solely focus on fighting Pakistan, as compared to the Afghan Taliban who focus on fighting the Americans inside Afghanistan. The idea is simple: pushing fake Islamists – professional killers trained in the art of recruiting and organizing death squads, Islam-focused propaganda experts tasked with brainwashing and mind twisting, fluent in Pashto, Uzbek, Arabic and possibly Chechen, and develop conduits for money and arms supplies from Afghanistan into Pakistan – and let them exploit to the hilt Pakistan’s multiple ethnic and religious fault lines.

We know that Indian spymasters and the intelligence service of the U.S. client government in Kabul are aiding terrorism inside Pakistan. The question is: how much of this has Washington’s covert or overt approval?

It’s also quite interesting to note how the U.S. uses India to ratchet up the heat on Pakistan whenever there is a hiccup in the relationship. These days the Indian climbdown coincides with renewed signs that Pakistan’s political and military leaderships are cooperating with Washington.

This is not the Cold War era. The role of CIA outposts in Pakistan is becoming disputable now in many areas. While there is no question that both countries need to maintain close intelligence cooperation, the conflicting visions of America’s and Pakistan’s respective national security interests in Afghanistan and the region means that we need to reduce the level of unbridled CIA presence here and roll back some of the concessions that were necessitated by 9/11. In 2002, the Americans were allowed to establish bases in Balochistan and CIA was given the right to recruit Pakistanis in the tribal belt. These two areas of Pakistan are the most disturbed parts of our country seven years later. And now our territory is being used to attack the interests of Iran and China. We don’t have problems with these two nations but the U.S. does. It is also quite clear that Washington is creating conditions across our western belt that would make it impossible for China to pursue trade and energy corridors through Pakistan. The U.S. media alone has created and is sustaining an undeclared war against Pakistan whose intensity varies with the fluctuations of the U.S.-Pakistani ties.

Hopefully Mr. Richard Holbrooke heard this week in Islamabad that we don’t accept American diktat over Afghanistan where we have our own interests to watch like everyone else. While diplomats can handle the political side, it is the intelligence cooperation, and the CIA role specifically that is problematic from the Pakistani viewpoint.
 
Enigma

Thank you bringing the converstaion to the direction that best suits our position - as you and others seem persuaded, the talib are creatures of ther American or the Indian or the Israeli, am I more or less corret in understanding this?

Lets. say, to further the conversation that I am correct in understanding that you are among those who think the Talib is a creature of either the American, the Inidan or The Israeli orany comination of the trinity to evil, at least to some.

Now if these are creatures of the trinity, Pakistan must, it is obligated is it not, to kill every last man, won and child in the evil trinity and the framework that supports and promotes it? I certainly think so. And if you don't, Why not?. Explain!

Since these talib are creatures of the "evil trinity", we cannot expect that either the American or the indian or the Israeli or any combination thereof, will want to relieve pressure on Pakistan - and therfore once again, Pakistan has no choice but eradicate, to pull the weed out from it's root, is that not so? If not. why not? Explain!

See, Sir, anyway you look at this, there is no escape from responsibility, read DUTY, the talib menace, regardless of whose creature it is, has to be pulled out from it's roots, like we pull out weeds to enable our Gulistan, is this not so? indeed it is, without question, it is!

The Role of the Army

What must the role of the army be in such a situation where the people of Pakistan are determined that the Talib menace must be eradicated from it's roots --- If there any in Army who still have any integrity and honor, then they know their duty towards the people of Pakistan. But my Guess is that these are few and far between and the people of Pakistan may come to realize that far from being the creatures of the American or the Indian or the Israeli, the talib may be a creature of those who have chosen to disregard their duty by the people of Pakkistan. And then, if such an idea takes root among the Pakistani people....I will remind you of what you said about attacking the strongest pillars m....who will you blame for that? And what will it matter who you blame, by then it will be too late, isn't that so??

Honor is derived from the realization and performance of DUTY - a step towards that attack on the srtong pillar has been taken, and it is the srong pillar that is to blame for that first step being taken - it chose to abandon it's DUTY!! It chose dishonor!! Again!!! It has made itself irrelevant, let it sleep in the bed it made for itself.

Or will the call to duty be heard clearly and hesitation find no harbor among the Fauj -- It's for the Fauj to decide. Let it choose Honor and DUTY.
 
Enigma

Thank you bringing the converstaion to the direction that best suits our position - as you and others seem persuaded, the talib are creatures of ther American or the Indian or the Israeli, am I more or less corret in understanding this?

Lets. say, to further the conversation that I am correct in understanding that you are among those who think the Talib is a creature of either the American, the Inidan or The Israeli orany comination of the trinity to evil, at least to some.

Now if these are creatures of the trinity, Pakistan must, it is obligated is it not, to kill every last man, won and child in the evil trinity and the framework that supports and promotes it? I certainly think so. And if you don't, Why not?. Explain!

Since these talib are creatures of the "evil trinity", we cannot expect that either the American or the indian or the Israeli or any combination thereof, will want to relieve pressure on Pakistan - and therfore once again, Pakistan has no choice but eradicate, to pull the weed out from it's root, is that not so? If not. why not? Explain!

See, Sir, anyway you look at this, there is no escape from responsibility, read DUTY, the talib menace, regardless of whose creature it is, has to be pulled out from it's roots, like we pull out weeds to enable our Gulistan, is this not so? indeed it is, without question, it is!

The Role of the Army

What must the role of the army be in such a situation where the people of Pakistan are determined that the Talib menace must be eradicated from it's roots --- If there any in Army who still have any integrity and honor, then they know their duty towards the people of Pakistan. But my Guess is that these are few and far between and the people of Pakistan may come to realize that far from being the creatures of the American or the Indian or the Israeli, the talib may be a creature of those who have chosen to disregard their duty by the people of Pakkistan. And then, if such an idea takes root among the Pakistani people....I will remind you of what you said about attacking the strongest pillars m....who will you blame for that? And what will it matter who you blame, by then it will be too late, isn't that so??

Honor is derived from the realization and performance of DUTY - a step towards that attack on the srtong pillar has been taken, and it is the srong pillar that is to blame for that first step being taken - it chose to abandon it's DUTY!! It chose dishonor!! Again!!! It has made itself irrelevant, let it sleep in the bed it made for itself.

Or will the call to duty be heard clearly and hesitation find no harbor among the Fauj -- It's for the Fauj to decide. Let it choose Honor and DUTY.

Well atleast you and me agree that these talibans whom you call creatures are the gift of all those that you have amply menyioned.

And i also agree that they should be taken to task ASAP!

i thing is still left...

The Army...well we'll see where would it take us.

i have already explained the Army's role, and it is upto you to comprehend it.
 

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