Why No Nishan-e-Haider in the Whole War on Terror?

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Nishan a Haider also comes with a LAND GRANT---. So---if they start awarding Nishan a Haider---there won't be any land left for the generals.

 

[SQ8]

What you have said can you apply on Major Shabbir Sharif and Captain Kernal Sher Khan, Since Indian Generals sent citation to Pakistan for the highest award.

It could apply in many places. There are those who argue that Rashid Minhas while being very brave in trying to regain control- perhaps did not need the Nishan-e-haider. Or if he deserved it, so did Sarfaraz Rafiqui for fighting against insurmountable odds... or those in the many Naval flotilla boats in the bay of bengal who fought valiantly to their death against impossible odds.

Medals are awarded on a whim many a times in Pakistan. While subjective, certain awards should certainly need more than a few recommendations.

A look into the winners of the Medal of Honor should show how they are awarded. Perhaps the issue is too many medals rather than the Nishan e haider itself.
Many of the medals overlap- and the Nishan e haide seems like an unnecessary extreme to have

 

[MastanKhan]

By Granting two Murabha or 50 ayctod of land Pakistan would not become landless.

Hi,

In this 15 years war---there should have been close 50 Nishan A Haiders awarded---and if you awarded 50 NH's---then there would have been at least 100-150 Hilal A Jurat---and around 300-500 Sitara A Jurat awarded by now---.
So---where would that take the land tally.

I think the Land should be taken out---and financial award with education for children substitued.

While S.R awarded accordingly since before awarding the highest gallantry award a full committee of seniors have to check his service life. If there is any violation of forces law found person / martyr lower to on step down for medal.

Hi,

Service life should have NOTHING TO DO with the AWARD---. That is the DECEIT that pak military has---.

What does service life has to do with extra ordinary bravery or being a yes man---.

The award must be merited upon the action and action alone---.

Bravery merits the award---.

If the soldier / officer is in the military at the time of action---it must mean that he / she qualifies for the award by DEAFULT.

 

[SQ8]

By Granting two Murabha or 50 ayctod of land Pakistan would not become landless.



Rashid Minhas deserve the most I believe, He was under training but still show his dedication and love for Pakistan. Recordings of his cockpit are available online.
While S.R awarded accordingly since before awarding the highest gallantry award a full committee of seniors have to check his service life. If there is any violation of forces law found person / martyr lower to on step down for medal.

There is a difference in an acre in the cholistan desert and prime agricultural land ourside of Sargodha

Hi,

In this 15 years war---there should have been close 50 Nishan A Haiders awarded---and if you awarded 50 NH's---then there would have been at least 100-150 Hilal A Jurat---and around 300-500 Sitara A Jurat awarded by now---.
So---where would that take the land tally.

I think the Land should be taken out---and financial award with education for children substitued.



Hi,

Service life should have NOTHING TO DO with the AWARD---. That is the DECEIT that pak military has---.

What does service life has to do with extra ordinary bravery or being a yes man---.

The award must be merited upon the action and action alone---.

Bravery merits the award---.

If the soldier / officer is in the military at the time of action---it must mean that he / she qualifies for the award by DEAFULT.

I still would love to know how we have sitara e basalat handed out like chowaras at a wedding.

The US military structure is better.
Skills get you additional pay as do deployments. Merits are also linked to bonuses and added pay.
But no land is handed out free, nothing is free.

 

[touqeer haq]

Medals have been awarded in the past based on contrived stories or nepotism- evem today this practice continues.

Others were made into super humans for morale boosting.


Many who really did deserve recognition and medals were ignored due to personal reasons or professional jealousy

How can you say that? All Nishan e Haiders given on stories or nepotism? You can say 1% or 2% but u r generalising all. I disagree with what u r saying my friend.

 

[MastanKhan]

OK Sir let me explain,


Loosing your life or simple committing suicide in the name of bravery should not be awarded.

Example,

Sir Rafiqui was told not to fly since his plane need overhaul because but he argued with his seniors and because of his repute he was granted to fly a mission.
There are more things which I can't share here.


There is only two debatable, rest all on merits.


I am agreed on part of awarding lands.

Hi,

Thank you---you offer good explanation.

I had my doubts about Rafiqui---something did not add up---and I have written about that over here years ago---.

Thanks for the information.

 

[SQ8]

How can you say that? All Nishan e Haiders given on stories or nepotism? You can say 1% or 2% but u r generalising all. I disagree with what u r saying my friend.

Nishan e haider is too small a number- i am referring to medals in general

OK Sir let me explain,

What if a dirty harry did one time bravery and get the highest award what standards he put in front of others defy the orders of seniors, force seniors with wrong reasoning in the name of bravery and just for one heroic act get the award.

Loosing your life or simple committing suicide in the name of bravery should not be awarded.

Example,

Sir Rafiqui was told not to fly since his plane need overhaul but he argued with his seniors and because of his repute he was granted to fly a mission.
There are more things which I can't share here.


There is only two debatable, rest all on merits.


I am agreed on part of awarding lands.

Sarfaraz Rafiqui flew because no one else was there to ensure a complete mission. His mission needs to be given introspective look from more than one source- just as that of bomber crews.

This account needs to be looked at from the perspectives of known PAF personnel rather than hearsay.


What possibly could you not share on men dead for over 40 years?
Neither their deeds or actions effect our nation anymore?

Medals were awarded to people that did not encounter a single bandit.

Sitara e basalat are handed out to people just for showing up to work and clocking in.

So there is a serious issue with the system.

 

[SQ8]

I don't wants to give Indians a chance to use my post to mock our war hero,

Read my above posts and About Sir Rafiqui (In detail).
If you have access check services records, warnings and inputs from his seniors during and before war.

I am retiring from this thread,

Well either we decide he is a hero or not. My account of him come from his colleagues- who rate him a top notch pilot if nothing else. He was known to rebel but only against yes men that plague the entire armed forces.

As an example of a colleague, late Acdre Rais Rafi.

 

[SQ8]

There is no serious issue with the system, our forces counts discipline and not ward monsoon heroes, just showed up for once,

Discipline like Khaqan Abbasi or Mansoor ul Haq or the countless medalled generals of 65,71 , kargil and so on who led soldiers to certain death?

Lets agree to disagree

 

[HAIDER]

Medals have been awarded in the past based on contrived stories or nepotism- evem today this practice continues.

Others were made into super humans for morale boosting.


Many who really did deserve recognition and medals were ignored due to personal reasons or professional jealousy

Noticed and agreed. Ex officers complained ...

 

[SQ8]

Our forces are best because of discipline not because of stupid heroic acts to loose your life.

Based on that
Rashid Minhas should be disqualified because his attempt to regain control was a stupid act that lost his life.

Aziz Bhatti was also stupid to try and get a position on the enemy.
So was karnal sher khan trying to fight when he should have surrendered

 

[Chak Bamu]

Just do study why his guns jammed and the service records of particular plane.

He was earlier sent to a mission of his choice but while coming back he starts ground assault on Indian army vehicles with out permission with his cannons.

How is that a bad thing?

Did PAF operate under a Soviet system wherein pilots were told to follow orders and stick to regimented routine. If my study of PAF is correct, we like our pilots to take initiative. Or am I wrong here?

 

[SQ8]

First thing I was taught PMA is discipline and obey the orders of seniors which I have taken oath,

Same seniors that abandoned your earlier batches in Kargil, same seniors who led earlier batches into open fire zones in waziristan.

This is why the US armed forces will be superior, not because of equipment- but because they are trained with initiative.

Taking the initiative and telling your superiors where you think they are wrong I believe is more important-
Sure, you should per discipline take their orders and jump into a well. But that is where military discipline and common sense collide.

 

[SQ8]

His service records age and dedication to get back his plane's control enough to awarded him Nishan e Haider further Air Chief personally ask for that to boost the moral.

That is something we agree with.. boost morale. Age and dedication have less to do with it.

 

[WarFariX]

I am the biggest fan of Pakistan army but i also donot like it's medal distributing system in the past.
Many units or soldiers were not awarded when they deserved it. I think governmnet and army are little bit of kanjoos in this regard.

the more medals you distribute , the lesser their value becomes...and yes no soldier is left unawarded..they get titles but small one's ...Understand the term "title" ? Its a name given to someone with special characteristics . Such as Saifullah to Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed R.A ...no one else was called Saifullah coz its a title based on actions