Signalian
PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
![](/styles/default/xenforo/ranks/General.jpg)
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,608
- Reaction score
- 305
- Country
- Location
Where is the technical talk?*yawn*
ARMs. Right...
And pray tell me what kind of ARMs you have, how many, how many aircraft can you deploy simply for the sake of SEAD/DEAD? So on and so forth. All rhetorical.
Take Desert Storm. The Iraqis were completely unprepared to fight NATO. Their network was more dedicated to taking attacks from smaller forces, their fighter jets did not even put up a decent fight, and their EW capability was practically non-existent. The US still used 2000 HARMs against Iraq's smaller and outdated IADS in 1991 and in conditions of air superiority. Just one unit required nearly 2400 sorties just to fire off 1000 HARMs. Otoh, your entire air effort in 1971 was less than 3000 sorties, and you will be dealing with a massive IADS network that's incomparable to Iraq's.
So this is your idea of an intelligent conversation? You don't even know how many SAM sites are involved and how many SEAD sorties you actually need to perform before you even decimate 10% of the SAMs we are talking about. I bet you don't even know how many aircraft you have that can be dedicated to SEAD.
Do you know active decoys are very effective against ARMs? So decoys work both ways.
Simply using ARM and jamming is useless against the S-400, even other modern upcoming SAMs. And CEC makes it all the more irrelevant. Radar ranges have become so large that they overlap with their neighbouring SAM sites. And the S-400's LRSAMs will be further bolstered by DRDO's new XRSAM.
The problem with this tactic of using jamming and ARMs, jamming is considerably less effective than it used to be. Degrading a 600Km radar to 300Km when you are 100Km away is going to be useless. And SAMs have become so capable that missiles can now shoot down other missiles. So if an ARM is deemed to be dangerous, then it will simply be engaged by a QRSAM. Hell, you can say that in an high intensity environment, the SAM controllers may not even bother using anti-ARM tactics, they will simply dedicate more resources to shoot down the ARMs and the SEAD fighter instead.
PAF won't even get the chance to come close enough to actually use ARMs on the S-400. Most of what PAF uses are short range. MAR-1, LD-10 and CM-103 are all less than 100Km. And the PAF will have to first cross the IA's IADS before engaging the S-400, and the IA's network is ridiculously huge.
And as I have already pointed out, killing the S-400's radar won't particularly diminish its threat. CEC is one of its more advanced features. So some other radar can cue its missiles.
The only way to defeat India's upcoming IADS is by using quality, not quantity. Who knows when that will happen?
Anyway, if the PAF ends up dedicating more of its resources to defeat India's IADS, while the IAF jets are busy bombarding targets of greater relevance in Pakistan, then the IADS has pretty much done its job.
Of course they can. But the problem you see, fighter pods are very small. So if you really wanna see a truck on the ground and identify it, you're gonna have to fly really, really close to it. It's a different story that by the time you finish your sortie, the truck would have moved. Not to mention, you're gonna have a tough time collecting intel when you have missiles headed towards you.
I will begin with simple sentences so you can understand the context. The first type of jamming is Communication Link Jamming. This is normally considered to be jamming a point-to-point communication link between transmitter and receiver. Noise modulated cover jamming is also used for VHF, UHF and microwave links. All such links are used by Military forces for communication.
Now we come to radar jamming, the purpose of the radar jammer is to provide either false information (deceptive jamming) for the target or completely prevent the radar from detecting the target (cover jamming). One more thing, deceptive jamming can be used in a communication link also.
Then there is Self-protection jamming, In this case the target is equipped with the jammer, and the radar system can not detect the target or gets false information for the actual position of the target. Another type is Stand-Off jamming, This is a jammer on a different platform, which is used to transmit a signal to prevent the detection of another platform.
Coming to decoys, starting with Expendable decoys, these decoys are ejected from the platform and operate in a very short period of time. I am sure you know the example of this one. Second is towed decoys, a towed decoy is attached to the platform by a cable which can be controlled or retracted. They can operate for a long period of time. Another type is, Independent manoeuvre decoys, they are deployed from a platform, are independently propelled and have complete flexibility of motion.
The Passive and Active decoys; Passive decoys are normally made from material which can reflect incoming radar
signals. Their RCS is generally high or specifically designed to match the RCS of the target (an aircraft). Corner reflectors are typically used as a passive decoy, and are deployed on different platforms. I am sure you know what corner reflectors are.
Active decoys are different, If a small decoy is required to produce a high RCS, active elements such as an amplifier can be incorporated in the decoys. In its simplest form, two antennas and an amplifier can be utilized for the active decoys.
Since you have been rambling on and about saturation attacks, lets start with Saturation Decoys; A saturation mission is when a large number of decoys are used to saturate the radar. Most radar systems have a limited time slot to detect the target, and also a limited number of targets they can detect at a given time. Saturation decoys can be passive or active and should provide a similar RCS to the target. Other characteristics of the target such as jet engine modulation, signal modulation and motion need to be considered. e.g. chaff bursts are used to protect aircrafts from missiles.
Another decoy type is Detectable decoy; The aim of a detectable decoy is to cause the radar system to detect the decoy rather the real target. Once the decoy is detected by the acquisition radar it is handed over to the tracking radar.
An interesting decoy is Seduction decoy; A seduction decoy causes the tracking radar to change its tracking from the target to the decoy. In a simple terms, it breaks the radar’s lock on the target (seduce the radar). In a seduction mission, it is important that the RCS of decoy is much higher than the target (passive or active decoy).
It should produce a return signal similar to target such as jet engine modulation, or the size and shape of the target.
A little bit about "burn through Range" to talk on technical parameters. Burn-through range, is the distance which
a radar can detect the signal and can operate/track successfully for a given power level of the received signal from the target.
So far i have explained some terms i used in my previous post; lets come to the technical part now.
Since you have shown in your post that you know about PAF's arsenal of aircraft and ARM's, lets go with a capable aircraft that can have a jamming pod installed on it, you can choose the aircraft type but I will give it a higher RCS and lower jamming capability in my question to make it easy for you.
1. F-16 Block 52+ with DRFM
2. F-16 Block 15 MLU with AN/ALQ-211(V)9 pod Or ALQ-131 pod
3. JF-17 with KG300G or Aseslan Pod
4. Falcon D-20 with EW pods.
PAF has ALQ-184 and ALQ-213 pods for F-16's also. If hard points allow, they maybe installed. Forget ARM for now.
Technical Question S-400 vs PAF
A S-400 radar system has been used to detect a PAF aircraft which carries self-protection jamming capability. The aircraft’s jammer power is 50 dBm into a 10 dBi antenna. Supposing that S400 radar has a 1kW transmitter and a 30 dBi antenna. The aircraft(non stealthy as in case of PAF) radar cross section is 10 m2(meter square).
Determine the Burn-through range for Jamming to Signal ratio of 10 dB, which is sufficient to block the S-400 radar.
Since you know about S-400 radar and its mechanisms you can assume the bandwidth of the jamming signal is equal to or greater than the desired signal’s bandwidth.
The Answer which you will give will determine the distance that aircraft can protect itself if it is greater than the (distance you calculated) from this radar. If the aircraft distance is shorter than (the distance you calculated) from the radar, the aircraft will be detected.
The Range will obviously be in Km's or scale it down to meters if you want.
Good Luck.
PS: Please DO NOT quote me 10 year old kid's strategies again which have already been discussed to death on this forum, Calculate the range and then quote me otherwise you are wasting your time and my time. Be productive now.