Why Islam took a violent and intolerant turn in Pakistan

[Moorkh]

Teachings of religion should be absolute. Why they should change with time. I mean scriputer of religion is not notebooks where anyone can change anything she/he like to suit his/her personal needs. Followers of particular religion need to change themselves according to their religon and they should should not try to change the religion according to their personal like or dislike otherwise you will have million version of islam

I disagree. A religion needs to be flexible to adress the changing problems people might have. A religion or way of thinking which worked in a hunter gatherer society might inhibit progress in an agricultural society. Or a religion based on the values of an agricultural society might have problems with the values of an industrial society. If a religion refuses to change, the society in which it is so absolute will either have to stop evolving into something better or have to leave the religion entirely.

You are wrong as there are majority who said that killing salman taseer was wrong no matter how loud mouthed he was in expressing his personal views about blasphemy laws interpreted from islam.

No point arguing facts. He was showered with flowers when he appeared in court.

Again i think speaking against religion or against validity of its teaching with reasoning or debate is one thing while insulting and mocking the religion and its personalities another. one spread knowledge while other spread hate.

No one is mocking the religion or its personalities here. Your reaction seems to strengthen my point that anything spoken against Islam is taken very very badly. While I agree about not mocking a religion, you seem to take an argument like mine as mockery. Also I am not sure whether Salman Taseer was killed because he mocked islam or because he spoke against it..

Again its not just islam but follower of all religion who claim their scripture is true and cannot be wrong..again you are confusing two different things here. Quran is final word of GOD and cannot be wrong but those who interept the words of god could make error in their interpretations ..two different things so dont blame Quran or islam if some follower misinterept its teachings

On the contrary, all religions allow their followers to take what they will from the scriptures and leave the rest. If that was not the case, there would not have been any reform movements anywhere in the world. Hindus dont burn their widows anymore, do they?
Also you misunderstand me. I am also blaming the people here. Their belief in the veracity of quran is so strong that they never question it. They dont even question any act as long as it has the tag of islamic attached to it. This is what needs to change. People need to stop looking towards quran as the absolute truth.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

Islaam cannot take a turn, violent or otherwise. Islaam is a chronological constant/invariant. People of Pakistan are nuts. They used to kill under the banner of ehnicity, tribe, honour and language. Since some time, religion has joined the list of reasons to fight, and not only Islaam.

 

[Tiger Awan]

There are lot of verses in quran which promotes violence. Mohammed( the main hero of Islam)used violent means. Most muslims consider mohammed as role model, and follow him. You cant blame a few muslims who try to follow mohammed and Islamic text in letter and spirit.

Islam was violent all along, it is that most muslims have rejected violence, like people of other religion. Those few muslims who are violent should not be blamed and condemned. You can call them stupid, but not evil.

You can not quote verses of Quran like this, you have to see many things associated with those verses. Thats why there is something known as tafseer. Ands thats why those who dont have complete knowldge about them are not allowed to give fatwas. unfortunately Muslims dont care a lot about this thing. One of the reason taliban are able to propagate their philosophy to some emotional muslims

 

[Tiger Awan]

I am also blaming the people here. Their belief in the veracity of quran is so strong that they never question it. They dont even question any act as long as it has the tag of islamic attached to it. This is what needs to change. People need to stop looking towards quran as the absolute truth.

My dear you need to check the meaning of belief.

 

[mehboobkz]

there should be no problem if my neighbour is a Hindu or sikh or anyone else till the time I dont interfere with him (in that manner lolz) and vice versa

What was Dr Abdus Salam's fault then?

 

[mehboobkz]

You can not quote verses of Quran like this, you have to see many things associated with those verses. Thats why there is something known as tafseer

Same can be done with Bible and other scriptures, why only problem with Quran?

 

[Moorkh]

My dear you need to check the meaning of belief.

I dont get your point. Care to elaborate?

 

[Tiger Awan]

What was Dr Abdus Salam's fault then?

Be specific. whats your point??

 

[mehboobkz]

Be specific. whats your point??

Where did he go wrong, so much so that he became out caste and was stamped a non muslim, even his grave says so....

Salam was buried in Bahishti Maqbara, a cemetery established by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Rabwah, Pakistan next to his parents' graves. The epitaph on his tomb initially read "First Muslim Nobel Laureate" but, because of Salam's adherence to the Ahmadiyya Muslim sect, the word "Muslim" was later erased on the orders of a local magistrate, leaving the nonsensical "First Nobel Laureate". Under Ordinance XX, Ahmadis are considered non-Muslims

 

[Tiger Awan]

I dont get your point. Care to elaborate?

what you suggest is that we should not take Quran as the absolute truth. How can a person be a Muslim if he dont believe in Quran????

 

[Tiger Awan]

Where did he go wrong, so much so that he became out caste and was stamped a non muslim, even his grave says so....

lolz

You people keep repeating same thing on this forum

For Muslims it is compulsory to believe Prophet Muhammad as the last Prophet. There is something known as Ijtima-e-Umat (that what the Scholars of islam think about a particular matter).

For 1400 years the ijtima-e-Umat is that a person who dont believe in Prophet Muhammad as last prophet is not a Muslim. So how can this change for abdus salam. Islam is not some one's property who can modify. It will remain the same. And plz leave this topic. Ahmadis are a minority, they will remain minority

they dont interfare with Muslims and there is no problem

 

[Tiger Awan]

Same can be done with Bible and other scriptures, why only problem with Quran?

Because people are Questioning Quranic verses only. i didnt said you cant do it for others. Of course this should be the standard procedure

 

[Moorkh]

what you suggest is that we should not take Quran as the absolute truth. How can a person be a Muslim if he dont believe in Quran????

I am not asking anyone to completely stop believing in quran. My argument has two parts

1) People need to realise that there might be parts of quran which might not be relevant anymore. Yes you believe that the words of God as written in the quran are eternal. But it was written in a society very different from the one you or I live in today. Question the teachings of the quran. If they are indeed correct as you believe them to be, so much the better. If not leave those parts out. Believe in the rest of the quran. Go about doing this questioning systematically and logically.

2) People need to question the actions and decisions taken in the name of Islam or justified using Islam. Let them look at actions and decide without the qualification of being for or against Islam.

The second point if implemented can easily suffice in our attempt to change Islam back to the religion of peace it was intended to be. It is just that as long as people are unwilling to question the quran, they will be unwilling to question the self declared "champions of Islam". They will be afraid that by questioning the champions they are somehow questioning the quran which in their beliefs is blasphemous.

As far as being muslim is concerned, anyone who follows the quran in spirit and goes through the rituals is a muslim. I have not read the quran (found it too preachy ) so i cant say what those rituals are or what that spirit is. Its for you to read and decide.

 

[mehboobkz]

lolz

You people keep repeating same thing on this forum

For Muslims it is compulsory to believe Prophet Muhammad as the last Prophet. There is something known as Ijtima-e-Umat (that what the Scholars of islam think about a particular matter).

For 1400 years the ijtima-e-Umat is that a person who dont believe in Prophet Muhammad as last prophet is not a Muslim. So how can this change for abdus salam. Islam is not some one's property who can modify. It will remain the same. And plz leave this topic. Ahmadis are a minority, they will remain minority

they dont interfare with Muslims and there is no problem

With yr definition, even Shias are non muslims because they beleive in Mahdi's arrival, which is thier central theme.

 

[mehboobkz]

Because people are Questioning Quranic verses only. i didnt said you cant do it for others. Of course this should be the standard procedure

So why do you say the following:

You can not quote verses of Quran like this, you have to see many things associated with those verses. Thats why there is something known as tafseer