Why is Pakistan afraid of international perception when testing its ICBM?

[vsdoc]

Trust me bro we Pakistanis have Cojones but the thing is this that u dont need to show in public to prove this.

Many of my posts have already tried to explain the concept of deterrence.

Showing in public is necessary for that. It is critical. As is the success of that showing.

You don't want to have to prove your capability by actually using the weapon ever.

Because that's not going to help you and 250 million of you.

Timing is every thing when time time will ok n skies will be clear, Pakistan will give reply of this Agni. I'm pretty sure there is already an answer in Pakistan's arsenal but as I said Timing is everything , ur provocation will not work.

Pakistan needs an ICBM not for India but for others who are close to de-nuking you in the near future. For which there will be foreign forces on your soil. In effect, an invasion.

It is a "War of the Worlds" fantasy that any nuclear power will nuke you out of hand for no reason.

The only reason Pakistan would need to "give an answer to Agni" is ego.

As mentioned many times over in this thread and elsewhere, both of us already have enough for mutual deterrence towards on another.

And we have had it for some time.

 

[vsdoc]

We are behaving worse than Indians, doob maro.

The left-handed Pakistani comes through here. Indians are doing what they should be doing. Pakistanis are not or cannot or will not.

So you are not actually behaving worse than us - as the connotation of that is that we are doing something pretty sad as well.

What you actually mean but are wired not to ever say is that "We are not as good as the Indians."

I will be very happy alone, ek China hi toh hai. You have the world with you. Got to give it to us Pakistanis there, that we still stand up against you. Not so impressively these days, but it is literally a world against us.

What I will give you is being excellent dramatic romantics and milking the crap out of us against the world pathos.

When was the last time you had to stand up against us really after 1971?

Op Parakram.

Kargil was you fingering and getting your finger broken for your pains.

When else have we threatened you?

 

[vsdoc]

You can be damn sure if the US attacks us it's world war 3.

You can be sure that any military move by the US against you will have the full backing and possibly even active support of Russia and China.

They are both in the region and both within reach of that which emanates from your soil.

And the confidence in you being able to control and contain that is not at its highest all around.

Do something to change that first.

If they could have attacked, they wouldn't be issuing statements against Pakistan every other week.

The US has the ability to attack you. Make no mistake about that. And there is nothing you can do to them in return.

But this is not the wild west anymore. World opinion needs to be rallied. For the sanctity of larger approval.

It takes time. Is often insidious. And its slowly incremental - with large gains thanks to brain farts like 26/11 and OBL.

Please do not be deluded. Please clean up your act.

Exactly right.

The US can obliterate Pakistan's military capability without breaking a sweat. The only deterrence is to make it crystal clear that, if they miss even one single nuke, it WILL detonate in Tel Aviv.

When you can credibly threaten the master, the bulldog will stay put.

Incredibly stupid doctrine - even from you.

The bulldog and master can both flatten you far far better than you them.

One you cannot reach.

The other you can barely reach and with nowhere near the accuracy required - with near equal chances of your missiles either falling into the sea or obliterating any number of Muslim nations in the region instead.

Not to mention one of the world's most sophisticated missile shileds.

You are neither a master nor a bulldog.

By the same analogy, you are a yappy pomeranian begging to get its behind whipped.

 

[Awesome]

What you actually mean but are wired not to ever say is that "We are not as good as the Indians." :smokin

I am asking a question, so I would still phrase it "Are we not as good as the Indians?" But thats not my question, I'm talking about himmat of Indians vs Himmat of Pakistanis. Its not good or bad. Its having it or not. Or having more or having less.

But aap khush hojao. I know my comments are like a lightning rod to Indians who have to comment and defend themselves I'm saying your opinion, noted, but since it is so subjective, it is also discarded and irrelevant here.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I haven't read all the pages except for the first one----why does pak needs to do any tests right now---. We have the missiles that we know will do the job that needs to be done---secondly---and not to start a fire--traditionally india has to do more tests each missile in order to get it working right---a few of them never did----.

So, then why do we need to follow in that tradition---when our fewer tests give us the information that we need to go into full production and deployment.

 

[Gessler]

Hi,

I haven't read all the pages except for the first one----why does pak needs to do any tests right now---. We have the missiles that we know will do the job that needs to be done---secondly---and not to start a fire--traditionally india has to do more tests each missile in order to get it working right---a few of them never did----.

So, then why do we need to follow in that tradition---when our fewer tests give us the information that we need to go into full production and deployment.

Hi, MK. I'm not into troll war but I do believe some (if not most of em) of Pakistan's missiles are delivered
from China/NK technology. So you see Pakistani never actually gets to assess the exact capabilities/performance
of their missiles because they dont have the codes with them. Missiles are delivered/copied/produced and
put into service just like that.

There's no professional nation in the world that can test so many parameters with a minimum number of
tests, not even US/Russia/China. But how come Pakistan just tests missiles just a few times and then
tucks them into service? That translates that are either improperly tested OR needn't be tested so much
since they are only produced versions of ready-made missiles delivered from china/NK.

 

[vsdoc]

The proof will come when and if Pakistan gets a missile that can reach a major Chinese city.

Right now its mainly Tibet - and Tibet as well as Tibetans are expendable from the Chines POV.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The proof will come when and if Pakistan gets a missile that can reach a major Chinese city.

Right now its mainly Tibet - and Tibet as well as Tibetans are expendable from the Chines POV.

The key question is how much confidence the Chinese have that Pak will not go back into the US lap.

They are unlikely to supply any ICBM tech (or permit North Korea to supply it) until they feel confident about that.

 

[vsdoc]

The key question is how much confidence the Chinese have that Pak will not go back into the US lap.

They are unlikely to supply any ICBM tech (or permit North Korea to supply it) until they feel confident about that.

I somehow doubt the Chinese would give the Pakistanis full-control ICBM software and hardware. There will be critical Chinese elements involved as safe-guards were that to happen.

Which in turn for Pakistan would be equivalent to NOT having an ICBM. Because it effectively means having a Chinese ICBM on pakistani soil.

This will not be lost on the major nuclear powers either. And China would not be having any part in launching a nuke towards th US mainland anytime soon.

As it is they have arrived at an impasse vis a vis first Russia and now the US.

But here are the facts - Russia has over 10,000 nukes, the US has over 8,000, China 400-700.

There are only ever going to be two big boys in this party. The rest are merely going to cover their behinds.

Do you think they are going to risk that for Pakistan?

The facts on the ground are clear. They will use Pakistan as a counter weight to India as long as it suits them and till they are not threatened.

The day that changes or looks like changing, Pakistan will learn the meaning of "all weather friend."

 

[shuntmaster]

I doubt the Chinese will give Pakistan any technology which will enhance their capability beyond the Shaheen-II range (2000-2500Kms.). Shaheen-II is adequate to cover India. China's strategy to keep India bogged down in South-Asia by arming Pakistan. Other than that I don't believe China has any deep and long term interest in Pakistan. The only common factor between China and Pakistan is India. Enemy's enemy is a friend logic.
China cannot trust Pakistan with the technology which will enable Pakistan to threaten any of its major cities in Central and eastern China. They would have closely followed the US-Pakistan relationship and learnt their lessons on how Pakistan is two-timing US. They would have seen how Pakistan consistently bites the hand which feeds it. After seeing all this it would be utterly foolish on China to give Pakistan the ICBM technology, not to mention its own MTCR obligations. They would be happy as long they can get Pakistan to do their dirty work vis-a-vis India, without getting itself dirty.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Hi, MK. I'm not into troll war but I do believe some (if not most of em) of Pakistan's missiles are delivered
from China/NK technology. So you see Pakistani never actually gets to assess the exact capabilities/performance
of their missiles because they dont have the codes with them. Missiles are delivered/copied/produced and
put into service just like that.

There's no professional nation in the world that can test so many parameters with a minimum number of
tests, not even US/Russia/China. But how come Pakistan just tests missiles just a few times and then
tucks them into service? That translates that are either improperly tested OR needn't be tested so much
since they are only produced versions of ready-made missiles delivered from china/NK.

i recognize the fact that India has the capability to builds its own missile however its high time you must also recognize the fact that Pakistan also has the capability to builds it own missiles
it doesn't matter from where one gets the technology lets face it ethic's don't count sh!t in matters of national defense, what matters is the know how & the infrastructures once that capability is achieved the job gets done & Pakistan has achieved that but still if you want live in denial then thats not my problem

 

[Awesome]

The proof will come when and if Pakistan gets a missile that can reach a major Chinese city.

Right now its mainly Tibet - and Tibet as well as Tibetans are expendable from the Chines POV.

The phrase cold day in hell comes to mind, if you are suggesting what I think you are suggesting. Aiwai ka mirch masala.

 

[shuntmaster]

i recognize the fact that India has the capability to builds its own missile however its high time you must also recognize the fact that Pakistan also has the capability to builds it own missiles
it doesn't matter from where one gets the technology lets face it ethic's don't count sh!t in matters of national defense, what matters is the know how & the infrastructures once that capability is achieved the job gets done & Pakistan has achieved that but still if you want live in denial then thats not my problem

Below pictures are self-explanatory:

Pakistans Shaheen

Chinas DF11

North Korean Nodong missile

Pakistans Ghauri missile

 

[DEV444]

How about 'Genghis Khan' name?

Anyways! ICBM program is not on the cards for now.

Well sir, naming a Pakistani missile in the name of Genghis Khan will surely offend your Chinese friends because of the unprecented death and destruction he wreaked in China. In fact many Indians think that Genghis would be a fit name for the Agni V for the same reason.

 

[shuntmaster]

Well sir, naming a Pakistani missile in the name of Genghis Khan will surely offend your Chinese friends because of the unprecented death and destruction he wreaked in China. In fact many Indians think that Genghis would be a fit name for the Agni V for the same reason.

Genghis Khan was not even a Muslim, though his surname was Khan. Only his successors who settled down in central Asia, many generations later adopted Islam as their religion. He was Mongolian animist and was responsible for ransacking many Muslim and Chinese cities and kingdoms. In south-Asia, he only reached upto the western banks of Indus river, which is in present day Pakistan.
It would be interesting if Pakistan actually named one of its missile after Genghis Khan.