Why is great philosopher Kautilya not part of Pakistan’s historical consciousness?

[padamchen]

I have no problems with opinions of the people, they may interpret as they may wish or understand, but their opinions are not always acceptable for me.

If it was the case Quran would have mentioned Zoroastrian religion, but it doesn't, whereas Christianity and Judaism are mentioned and called as people of book ........... for me that is the test.

And as regards to me being religious, well lala its more like my way of life, I am comfortable with the principles and guidelines Quran provides ............ why I am comfortable because I feel them to be just, straight forward and lawful.

I repeat. The individual differences in the three come mainly from the people it was meant for. And came from.

There is a degree of hate Arabs have for Persians, and disdain Persians have for Arabs, which is difficult if not impossible for us in this part of the world to appreciate.

Persia is and always was Islam's main and only prize.

The rest of the world was simply imperialistic overrun.

Let me also put something out here, which I probably might have mentioned before. Might not.

The Parsis came to India not when all was lost, but when hope still burned about a fightback and reversal.

The original ships had no able bodied fighting men. Only women, children, the elderly and wise, and the priests. ALL armed for war.

India was a temporary move only to save the texts and the holy fire. While the men fought on.

Which they did. But the tide had turned. And eventually Persia fully converted only 300 years later by around 1000 AD.

And the Indian line of the Parsis now knew that there was no going back. They fled when Persia fell militarily. They stayed when Persia fell in a way there was no return from. Or to.

Forget back. They were to pick up arms once more 500 years later and fight the same ideology. Only this time their own half cousins, the by then Turkified Persian invaders who hit and occupied India.

Having to hide and save the holy Atash once more. For another 300 years. In the caves and forests of Gujarat.

So I repeat our favourite old line. This is an ancient enmity. Of blood and faith.

And I believe it is still to play out fully.

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

I repeat. The individual differences in the three come mainly from the people it was meant for. And came from.

I will repeat again Quran is for humanity .......... it doesn't recognise a superior Arab over any other normal human. You are mixing the original message with what the people did or do.

There is a degree of hate Arabs have for Persians, and disdain Persians have for Arabs, which is difficult if not impossible for us in this part of the world to appreciate.

Do you know there is a prediction in Quran (which latter proved to be correct in life of Messenger Peace be upon him) ... regarding the fight between Persia and Romans ....... Romans were defeated, Quran revealed that though Romans have been defeated but they will soon be victorious ......... This happened during the time when both Persians and Romans thought Arabs to be insignificant ..... a desert not worthy of a challenge ..... but soon both of them realised the revolution in Arab is threatening for their way of ruling the people.

Persia is and always was Islam's main and only prize.

The rest of the world was simply imperialistic overrun.

Let me also put something out here, which I probably might have mentioned before. Might not.

The Parsis came to India not when all was lost, but when hope still burned about a fightback and reversal.

The original ships had no able bodied fighting men. Only women, children, the elderly and wise, and the priests. ALL armed for war.

India was a temporary move only to save the texts and the holy fire. While the men fought on.

Which they did. But the tide had turned. And eventually Persia fully converted only 300 years later.

And the Indian line of the Parsis now knew that there was no going back.

Forget back. They were to pick up arms once more 500 years later and fight the same ideology. Only this time their own half cousins, the by then Turkified Persian invaders who hit and occupied India.

Cheers, Doc

It wasn't about the land in any case.

However, centuries latter we lost the true message and you lost your land, the current lot won't accept you neither acknowledge the true message ........ tragic for both of us.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

will repeat again Quran is for humanity ..........

What does it have for non Muslims?
Or other living beings? Animals? Plants?

 

[I.R.A]

What does it have for non Muslims?
Or other living beings? Animals? Plants?

Can you quote me one instance where Quran addresses people as "Oh Arabs" ......... I can quote many instances where it addresses people as "Oh people".

Doesn't it invite people in general to search, research, read and then decide? Or does it say anywhere exclusive Muslims book only?

Don' tell me you don't agree that Bee is not a useful creature, pomegranates, olives, dates tend to be harmful for consumption.

Forget living beings it goes to the extent of saying "We create living from non living and non living from living".

And somehow a person more than 1400 years ago knew a lot about embryology ...... or that Sun, Moon are revolving in orbits or universe is ever expanding. Or that life on Earth came into being from water and Earth and it took many shapes before it got evolved both mentally and physically to be finally ready for the last set of guidance.

Your biggest mistake when you associate Quran with Muslims only and try to distance yourself, whereas Quran says the message is there for everyone or anyone to read and understand and still after reading and proper research one feels it unacceptable, that is his choice.

P.S: I had stopped discussing this ....... my own people felt insecure, a couple of my friends think I have gone nuts and need to see some high fi scholar, who can tune me back into accepting traditional narratives.

 

[Kal Muah]

Mainstream Pakistanis don't know about him being brahmin. But brahmins do enjoy bad reputation in Pakistan. I think reason is urdu literature since brahmins had absolute control in gangetic plains and were very cruel to low castes which basically mean non-brahmin. Haryanvi ancestor Lalu ram used to cry to Unionists about treatment from brahmins there.

Wrong Brahmins pretty much was all over India and not just Gangatic plains. Infact one of the oldest Rishis Known as Adi-Shakracharya was from south India itself

 

[padamchen]

Wrong Brahmins pretty much was all over India and not just Gangatic plains. Infact one of the oldest Rishis Known as Adi-Shakracharya was from south India itself

He was hardly an old rishi.

He was a medieval revivalist and reformist.

Probably the newest in terms of Hindu lineage, just behind later ones like Tukaram et al.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Kal Muah]

Yes. I have the original. It proves he was Indian. He was Brahmin. His parents were from Mumbai and Chennai.

WTF is a kautilya Brahmin? Neither Pakistanis know sub-continent history properly nor have any ideas on ancient languages,I guess thats what happens when you suffer from foreign invasion

He was hardly an old rishi.

He was a medieval revivalist and reformist.

Probably the newest in terms of Hindu lineage, just behind later ones like Tukaram et al.

Cheers, Doc

Ya thats why I said one of the oldest Rishis. This was said in reply that Rishis were not just limited to Gangatic plains, but was there all over india

 

[padamchen]

@Joe Shearer

Give life a break for a bit and come back.

Things seem to be looking up ....

Cheers, Doc

WTF is a kautilya Brahmin? Neither Pakistanis know sub-continent history properly nor have any ideas on ancient languages,I guess thats what happens when you suffer from foreign invasion


Ya thats why I said one of the oldest Rishis. This was said in reply that Rishis were not just limited to Gangatic plains, but was there all over india

Of course.

That is just plain (or wilful) ignorance.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Narcissist]

Ahh the Mauryans, from a historical perspective they had their day in the sun for a very brief, brief period of history, they could not handle the Kushans, ancestors of todays prominent Punjabi tribes.

Kushans are (possibly the earliest) ancestors of Pakhtuns. They made Gandhara aka Peshawar the Capital, and expanded to become a large empire encompassing all the territory of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and chunks of India. There's a strong argument that they were the very first Pakhtun empire.

Please punju, stop trying to steal heritage. Stop acting like Gangadeshis. I'm sure you have something that you can brag about, without trying to rip off your superiors.

I'm a simple man. Not even as religious as you are. But I do read a lot. And there is a lot of expertise out there, across faith lines and biases, that says that Aryan Zoroastrianism as the first and oldest monotheistic faith had very strong influences an all three Semitic Abrahamic faiths that followed.

Via individual Prophets (or Messengers) born to and out of different people at their pre-annointed time of greatest darkness and need.

The individual differences of the following three stem more from the people the message was for. And came from.

Cheers, Doc

This is actually accurate, but not in contradiction with Islam. Islam says there were messengers before Muhammad (PBUH). The messages got corrupted, and he was there to deliver the final message.

 

[Kabira]

Wrong Brahmins pretty much was all over India and not just Gangatic plains. Infact one of the oldest Rishis Known as Adi-Shakracharya was from south India itself

Pakistanis started to know about brahmins being evil hindus relatively recently. As punjab based poets since 12th century either don't mention them or at least not in bad light. I know brahmins lived in Pakistan, some still do like this family.

 

[padamchen]

Kushans are (possibly the earliest) ancestors of Pakhtuns. They made Gandhara aka Peshawar the Capital, and expanded to become a large empire encompassing all the territory of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and chunks of India. There's a strong argument that they were the very first Pakhtun empire.

Please punju, stop trying to steal heritage. Stop acting like Gangadeshis. I'm sure you have something that you can brag about, without trying to rip off your superiors.



This is actually accurate, but not in contradiction with Islam. Islam says there were messengers before Muhammad (PBUH). The messages got corrupted, and he was there to deliver the final message.

Bottom line.

Different people find God in their own way.

Through a son of their own.

Anything else and after is .... conversion.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Kal Muah]

Pakistanis started to know about brahmins being evil hindus relatively recently. As punjab based poets since 12th century either don't mention them or at least not in bad light. I know brahmins lived in Pakistan, some still do like this family.

Curious question, Why do Pakistanis think Brahmins are evil? Whats the narrative there in Pakistan?

 

[Kabira]

Kushans are (possibly the earliest) ancestors of Pakhtuns. They made Gandhara aka Peshawar the Capital, and expanded to become a large empire encompassing all the territory of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and chunks of India. There's a strong argument that they were the very first Pakhtun empire.

Please punju, stop trying to steal heritage. Stop acting like Gangadeshis. I'm sure you have something that you can brag about, without trying to rip off your superiors.



This is actually accurate, but not in contradiction with Islam. Islam says there were messengers before Muhammad (PBUH). The messages got corrupted, and he was there to deliver the final message.

Kushan first pakhtun empire lol you are funny.

 

[Narcissist]

Bottom line.

Different people find God in their own way.

Through a son of their own.

Anything else and after is .... conversion.

Cheers, Doc

Well, what I was getting at is the argument of recognizing pre-Islamic heritage is a sound one. Just because down the line our ancestors converted, does not mean their ancestor's work has been nullified.

 

[padamchen]

Well, what I was getting at is the argument of recognizing pre-Islamic heritage is a sound one. Just because down the line our ancestors converted, does not mean their ancestor's work has been nullified.

Just one thing to add to my earlier post.

Different people find God in their own way.

Through their own.

At their own time. When they are ready for it.

That is the purest form if faith.

Everything after that is religion.

Cheers, Doc