why is denying the holocaust against the law?

[Desert Fox]

Got a real hard on for the Jews, huh ?

Nahh, that's all you homie! You're the one defending them here while they're f*cking your country up from the inside out .

 

[Dubious]

Pretty sure on that, yes. Do you have any examples on the contrary in mind?

I thought you would ask...try Europe in Africa...

Didn't get you there. No country on this planet has the time or resources to think about Human Rights concerns in issues or regions that have no bearing on it. Rather, the idea is to ensure human rights to citizens of their own. I don't see any European country trying to teach other countries on how to frame domestic laws.

Beyond its own territory, the European Union (EU) promotes respect for democracy, the rule of law and human rights as a fundamental element of its bilateral and multilateral external relations. Its foreign policy instruments (agreements, dialogues, etc.) and financial assistance help strengthen democracy and human rights in the world. Respect for human rights is also one of the preconditions for any candidate country's accession to the EU.
The EU's external action in human rights matters has its legal basis in the Treaties and particularly in the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

Others: European Union - EEAS (European External Action Service) | EU Special Representatives

I could give you others but am sure you know how to use Google!

 

[boomslang]

Nahh, that's all you homie! You're the one defending them here while they're f*cking your country up from the inside out .

You know what ? You are so convincing that you flipped me. I'm seeing things your way now. Them damned Jews are meanies!!!

 

[Indischer]

I thought you would ask...try Europe in Africa...

Beyond its own territory, the European Union (EU) promotes respect for democracy, the rule of law and human rights as a fundamental element of its bilateral and multilateral external relations. Its foreign policy instruments (agreements, dialogues, etc.) and financial assistance help strengthen democracy and human rights in the world. Respect for human rights is also one of the preconditions for any candidate country's accession to the EU.
The EU's external action in human rights matters has its legal basis in the Treaties and particularly in the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

Others: European Union - EEAS (European External Action Service) | EU Special Representatives

I could give you others but am sure you know how to use Google!

I don't see any instructions on framing domestic laws in what you've quoted. It is merely stating it's preference in what kind of Governments it would like to have friendly relations with. Which country has been pressurized by EU to change it's domestic laws on any issue so far?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Regarding the bold part, perhaps not many people deny the occurrence of other genocides in as many numbers or with as much of rabid conviction as the Holocaust. The Armenian genocide is also denied by some, and it's denial is outlawed in Armenia. Convictions have also taken place against those who deny the Armenian genocide. So how exactly is the rule regading the Holocaust special?

The reason why people don't deny it is partly to do with the special kind of status it's given. One of the leading scholars of the Holocaust Raul Hilberg, also thinks that holocaust denial should not be criminalized. It's fear and paranoia that just isn't fitting of the modern age no doubt, no matter what you spin it, it infringes the basic right to free speech.

Let's not talk about Armenia, Armenia is no shining beacon of civil liberties. Similarly, I wouldn't ask you why Israel has a holocaust denial law. We're talking about countries like France, Germany, beacons of modern liberalism. And please, let's not kid ourselves, the Holocaust and the killing of Jews in particular is given stature above most, if not all of the genocides in history.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The reason why people don't deny it is partly to do with the special kind of status it's given. One of the leading scholars of the Holocaust Raul Hilberg, also thinks that holocaust denial should not be criminalized. It's fear and paranoia that just isn't fitting of the modern age no doubt, no matter what you spin it, it infringes the basic right to free speech.

Let's not talk about Armenia, Armenia is no shining beacon of civil liberties. Similarly, I wouldn't ask you why Israel has a holocaust denial law. We're talking about countries like France, Germany, beacons of modern liberalism. And please, let's not kid ourselves, the Holocaust and the killing of Jews in particular is given stature above most, if not all of the genocides in history.

A good compromise would be to criminalize the denial, if they cannot prove it.
Then they get a forum during the trial, and if they fail, a well deserved punishment.

 

[foxbat]

im not denying that the holocaust happened.
however I've never understood why these "champions" of human rights and free speech ban "denial of the holocaust"

16 european countries +israel have made it illegal to deny the holocaust
punishment for simply denying something is that not denying people freedom of speech?
17 people have been persecuted for simply denying that the holocaust ever happened.

what do you guys think about this draconian law?

punishments people received for denying the holocaust:

DateNameCountrySentence
(various)Jean-Marie Le PenFrance, Germanyfines[55]
Feb. 27, 1998Roger GaraudyFranceimprisonment (suspended), ₣240,000 fine[56]
Jul. 21, 1998Jürgen GrafSwitzerland15 months' imprisonment (fled Switzerland to avoid sentence)[57]
Jul. 21, 1998Gerhard FörsterSwitzerland12 months' imprisonment, disgorgement[58]
April 8, 1999Fredrick TöbenAustralia7 months' imprisonment Mannheim, Germany - retrial - 2011 indefinitely stayed by judge Dr Meinerzhagen. October 1 - November 19, 2008, London, extradition to Mannheim, Germany, on European Arrest Warrant issued by Germany, failed. August 15 - November 12, 2009, Adelaide, Australia - for contempt of court because he refused to stop questioning the Holocaust's 3 basics: 6 million, systematic state extermination, gas chambers as murder weapon.
May 27, 1999Jean PlantinFrance6 months' imprisonment (suspended), fine, damages[59]
Apr. 11, 2000Gaston-Armand AmaudruzSwitzerland1 year imprisonment, damages[60]
Feb. 20, 2006David IrvingAustria1 year imprisonment[61]
Mar. 15, 2006Germar RudolfGermany2½ years' imprisonment[62]
Oct. 3, 2006Robert FaurissonFrance€7,500 fine, 3 months' probation[63]
Feb. 15, 2007Ernst ZündelGermany5 years' imprisonment[64]
Jan. 14, 2008Wolfgang FröhlichAustria6 years' imprisonment (third offence)[65]
Jan. 15, 2008Sylvia StolzGermany3½ years' imprisonment[66]
Mar. 11, 2009Horst MahlerGermany5 years' imprisonment[67]
Oct. 23, 2009Dirk ZimmermanGermany9 months' imprisonment[68]
Oct. 27, 2009Richard WilliamsonGermany€12,000 fine[69] [later overturned]
Jan. 31, 2013Gyorgy NagyHungary18-month suspended jail sentence [70]



there are jewish holocaust deniers as well david cole is one and i will list more as i find them.

Why is denying Prophet Muhammad's divinity or drawing his picture punishable by death in Pakistan ? Why are Ahmadis termed as non Muslims simply because they believe that another prophet came after Prophet Muhammad. Think of an answer to those questions and a variation of the that answer will answer your OP question too...

 

[500]

white washing nazism and making it a crime to deny the holocaust is 2 different things!! how the hell do you fail to see that?

Holocaust is the biggest crime made by Nazis that differs them from the allies. Because both sides committed war crimes there.

yes living under blockade sure must be better then living in a country of your own.
and these arabs you speak of are in their own country which is occupied by you people.
do you really think of your self as gods chosen? lol
no human has a god given right to take another persons land

I was talking about 1.7 mln Israeli Arabs, who have lowest infant mortality levels in entire Middle East (including rich Gulf countries).

But even in "blockaded" Gaza the infant mortality level is lower than in most of Arab countries and 3 times lower than in Pakistan.

i always thought nazism was stronger in europe then anywhere else in the world, but i guess facts are wrong since you have to make your argument.

Nonsense. Only tiny percent of people in Europe supports dictatorship, racism laws and such.

give me example where america limits freedom of speech.
except saying "bomb" in a crowded theater i never heard of anything.

Educate urself:

United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[500]

Wow, the audacity of these European/Russian Jews to occupy Palestinian's land and then claim it as their "home" in order to deport Black immigrants! Oh, the hypocrisy!!


A good teacher is someone who practices what he/she preaches.


Would you let a doctor operate on you if he didn't practice half the things he preached??

These are not immigrants, but illegals. This video was filmed during highest level of tensions, when tens of thousands were settling in midst of Tel Aviv. You should ask urself why blacks (including many Muslims) from Sudan, Eritrea, Ghana come to evil Israel risking their lives.

You sure coz when adding up the numbers dont add up to 3 million...

And how sure are you that the 6 million who vanished didnt die from other atrocities: accidents, murder (unfortunate), drowning while going to USA or other countries?, medical related, child birth related or just remained in hiding and hence missed the censers?

As I said this number is based on demography, thus it includes deaths from all cases. In large conflicts death's are always calculated through demography.

You should also remember that prior the WW2 Jewish population of Europe was rapidly growing.

 

[Mugwop]

Man keep the black or blacks stuff outta this thread.
On-Topic the holocaust denial came from some book named "Mystery of the 6 million".

 

[Hyperion]

I never understood the law, don't care either....... although I believe that it did happen, however, if someone, someday can prove that it didn't happen, then I'll change my mind, law or no law....... never believed in laws in the first place, they are for the weak to feel happy and secure.......

 

[qamar1990]

Why is denying Prophet Muhammad's divinity or drawing his picture punishable by death in Pakistan ? Why are Ahmadis termed as non Muslims simply because they believe that another prophet came after Prophet Muhammad. Think of an answer to those questions and a variation of the that answer will answer your OP question too...

they shouldn't be against the law period
now what?

 

[Chronos]

because freedom of speech.
should you not have the right to deny something?

yes.

the free market of ideas this is called. And free speech allows the marketplace more option and allows us the freedom to choose which argument is more persuasive.

a lot of holocaust deniers are pretty much nutters from what I have seen.

They will find traction with those who see there is an international Jewish lobby behind every mishap.

so in my opinion, the person shouldn't be jailed or fined.

But rather let the other people take him/her to task for it.

 

[qamar1990]

A good compromise would be to criminalize the denial, if they cannot prove it.
Then they get a forum during the trial, and if they fail, a well deserved punishment.

why criminalize it all?
what so freaking hard about just letting believe believe it didn't happen.
our schools currently brian wash us and do a whole month of trying imbed the holocaust into our heads almost every other year, and yet i don't give a crap about and I'm like 70 years past the holocaust, in another 20 years nobody will give a rats *** about it

yes.

the free market of ideas this is called. And free speech allows the marketplace more option and allows us the freedom to choose which argument is more persuasive.

a lot of holocaust deniers are pretty much nutters from what I have seen.

They will find traction with those who see there is an international Jewish lobby behind every mishap.

yeah about what about the jews denying the holocaust?

Many of their citizens being affected in the genocide is reason enough for them to take steps to counter the nay-sayers.

is it also good enough to do to others what happened to them?
the palestinians in gaza are treated like animals by these same jews.

 

[Chronos]

why criminalize it all?
what so freaking hard about just letting believe believe it didn't happen.
our schools currently brian wash us and do a whole month of trying imbed the holocaust into our heads almost every other year, and yet i don't give a crap about and I'm like 70 years past the holocaust, in another 20 years nobody will give a rats *** about it


yeah about what about the jews denying the holocaust?

they belong to a sect within the Jewish community. Or a group. Their reason for holocaust denial is more rooted in theology to oppose zionism. I think you can google it.

It's the same as many Christian fundamentalists supporting zionist groups. They don't love Israel, rather they believe that Israel must remain in Jewish hands for the rapture to happen.

after that a third of the Jews will be killed in the rapture. These same christian fundamentalists are also anti-semitic to begin with. They view Jews as christ killers and dishonest.

But they support Israel.

They were there to stop blood shed on religious basis and to stop non Muslims in falling some elements hand who may wanted to create religious rift by using them, although the law may not be used to its soul.

I agree that freedom of speech should have its limits, so no one can hurt others feelings.

it's mainly used by Muslims against Non-Muslims to settle financial and property disputes. Or to grab lands of Non-Muslims.