he-man
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Okay this is taken from my discussions in this thread the computing and related technologies thread
But in nutshell
1)All right then,tell me why he did not age??
I understand the relative differences related to time at different speeds and around bigger orbits vs say a person on earth.
But
The human body has a biological clock of its own determined by the number of times a particular cell divides.Its decided by progressive shortening of telomers that are located at the end of chromosomes.After a particular length is reached the cells simply die.
Now how will the change in speed/movement through a wormhole alter that??
2)As the actual time remained constant whether u are travelling at the speed of light or sitting on earth.
Objection by a member to quote 2
"No, time is not constant. That is the whole story in the movie. He aged, but time was moving slowly for him compared to that on earth. The closer you approach to the speed of light, the slower time will be. There is nothing as actual time. There is no concept of time for a hypothetical particle travelling at the speed of light."
My answer
3)Thats because of relative difference as say u are on jupiter where 10 earth years make 1 jupiter year so u will be only 10 years old there while on earth u will be 100 years old.
The same concept will apply if u travel at the speed of light with appropriate corrections of course although u cannot as ur mass will increase too according to einstein.
But the point is ageing.How does this alter the body??Do cells stop dividing?Or they divide at slower rate too??Because ageing=death of cells
My point is if we keep time as a reference on say another place like pluto or jupiter or another galaxy and then calculate it for both a man moving like mcconughey(hero) and another person on earth then the time will be same for the cells of body which brings me to the original question.
Why did he age?
Argument by a member
"When we go faster, cells will divide slower. Simple stuff."
My answer
4)No they won't dude.
Only the mode of calculation will be slower............not the division.
Time is not a biological concept.
On the other hand the radiation and adverse affects of absence of gravity might shorten the life of an astronaut due to adverse effects on the body
Argument by a member
Time is a physical concept, and every thing you do is in the realm of Physics, even biology, or chemistry or anything. The cells will experience time as normal, only the frame of reference will change. For someone on earth, their cells will seems to divide very slowly. But for someone within the same reference frame, time will be flowing at normal speed, and cells will be dividing at normal speed.
And the adversities in space is time independent, not in anyway related to the topic in hand.
My answer
5)Thats the problem........they will in actuality be dividing at same rate if we don't measure time by any means.
So why did he age??
Argument by another member
"
Yes, but I dont get it. When you inside the ship, time slows down (again wrt to earth, not of the person living on the ship).
Like they travel at around speed of light, and return to earth after some 2 yrs.
These scenario would happen:-
1) The age of crew remain same wrt each other.
2) There age grow much slower wrt to earth.
So, automatically when they return they would be in future.'
My answer
6)Thats relativity.
The cells of body divide according to the biological clock and not according to where we are in the space.
Another argument
"
Again biological clock is what? The time which is experienced by each and every atom inside your body is matter.
Your time never slows down ( if you dont have any other frame of reference to compare), you only able to experience time jump only after when you return to earth. If he able to spend 100yrs according to his ship time, then yes he aged and die too."
My answer
7)After each division of cell,the chromosomes become shorter or in more details the ends of a chromosome become shorter.
These ends are called telomers and after a particular length is reached,the cells simply die.
This is biological clock
This is disturbed in cancers as the cancer cells make an enzyme telomerase that prevents this shortening so cells donot die which leads to increase in the size of that particular part(layman language)
Another argument
"Yes you are totally correct, but when the physical clock slows down (wrt earth), then how the biological clock remain at same speed (wrt earth)? Isnt biological clock too slows down wrt earth?"
My answer
8)No it should not because cells have to divide at the same rate to replenish older cells.If it does not happen we will die even faster
For example the cells of skin,stomach,intestines etc have to keep on dividing at a fast rate to replace the dead cells due to physical damage or damage due to acid in stomach.Now this sort of damage will occur even in space or wormhole or whatever,,if not to a greater degree due to radiation.
The brain cells/neurons cannot even divide so after say a particular age the brain becomes slow.But in the movie mcconoughey(hero) did not show any of these things
Another argument
"You are confused the time on earth and with time on ship.
Take an example, you and me are sitting on that ship. We experience nothing like time travel, we say fck there is nothing like time travel, we experience like we are on earth. All the time we abusing the Einstein for his non sense theory.
Scenario 1:
We spent 100 yrs in ship which running with almost speed of light. And yes we get aged and get die without experiencing any time travel. We die abusing Einstein.
Scenario 2:
We spent 70yrs in ship and return to earth ( the ship was traveling with speed of light). But when we return, it almost 1000 yrs gone.
So, isnt our biological clock was slow wrt to earth. But our clock was same wrt ship, thats why we are aged and now 70+."
Answer
9)In physics yes but in biology no.
1)The cells will divide at same rate to replenish the older cells whether u are at earth,jupiter,worm hole or travelling at speed of light.(if the level of wear and tear remains same which won't as i explain later on)
After x number of divisions the cells will die so no more replication
This leads to decrease in replication=ageing starts to set in.
Now in space this process will only accelerate due to radiation which has adverse effect on our body cells>>>cells die faster>>>gets the cells to replicate even faster to replace dead cells>>>>>cells deplete faster>>>>u may actually die faster
Why will cells divide slower in actuality(not relatively wrt clock on earth due to physics of time) in an environment having 100's of times more radiation than earth and much more g forces leading to
more wear and tear of the body??
Another argument
"
Ohh, if you adding Radiation and g force ( which we experience nothing in space) in equation, then definitely our life expectancy get lower. Thats the risk have to take to astronaut.
But again with jus simple 2 yr or 10 yr travel, that doesnt matter much, after all these astronaut would be in future."
My answer
10)
Then he should age same as a person on earth if u eliminate the radiation etc.
Point is why did't he age at all------------------neither physically,nor mentally??
Another argument
"
Yes he spent 1 yr in this ship, so his cell too.
Why his cell divide at faster rate? He experiencing 1 yr in ship, how he experience 10 yrs mentally?"
My answer
11)Man he experienced 1 year in ship relative to earth's longer time which was used as a reference point in years.Even his age in the end was calculated according to earth's time.
And our cells divide at a particular rate too which is calculated according to earth's time and not spaceship's time.
In the end his age was 140 years(don't remember exactly,maybe 180) and not 40-41 years as we calculate age based on the-
Difference between time he left earth to time he came back+his age when he went on travel.
So we have to assume that cells were dividing for 100+ years too because according to a person on earth he returned after 100+ years
Argument
"Yes his age would be 140 yrs according to earth, but why his cell experience earth time during space travel, when he was not at all on earth all the time?"
Answer
12)Because cells don't have a concept of time,they will divide at a constant rate if conditions remain same.They divide in actuality and relativity has 0 bearing on them.
And in actuality he returned after 100+ years so he spent 100+ years in space according to earth's time.
Argument
"
Cells dont have concept of time? Time is not concept.
And yes they divide, according to the same time.
Scenario 1:
if you watching the cell divide from earth , then yes they divide at much slower rate.
Scenario 2:
if you watching the cell divide from the ship, then it seems normal, that they dividing at normal speed. But that doesnt means time on earth is of same as of ship."
Answer
13)Again u are talking physics.
The scenario is simple.
He spent 100+ years in space as he returned after that time.
The only explanation for this would be if cells divide slowly vs earth's standards which cannot be or he will die even faster as i explained earlier.
It does not matter what looked from earth,the only thing that matters is that he returned after 100+ years.His own memory of time will be 1 year due to physics but in actuality wrt earth he returned after 100+ years.And life is calculated according to earth years in the first place.
Now why did he perceive time to be 1 year??
Due to factors like
1)increased speed
2)travelling through a wormhole,around a wormhole
3)Around a much much bigger orbit
But he did return after 100+ years didn't he??
Argument
"What what.. if he spent 100 yrs in space, then how his memory is of 1 yr?"
Answer
14)
Thats 1 year relative to earth's orbit/earth's time.
As explained in actuality which is earth's time for us based on which calculations were made in movie he returned after 100+ years.
Because cells divide at the same rate.
Does not mattehttps://defence.pk/forums/members-club.30/create-threadr what u experience..................they just have a constant division rate.And after x divisions they simply die.Because thats how the body's dna has been programmed.
And our hero returned after 100+ years wrt earth's time so he must have had 100+ years worth of cell division.
From the thread
the computing and related technologies thread | Page 5
But in nutshell
1)All right then,tell me why he did not age??
I understand the relative differences related to time at different speeds and around bigger orbits vs say a person on earth.
But
The human body has a biological clock of its own determined by the number of times a particular cell divides.Its decided by progressive shortening of telomers that are located at the end of chromosomes.After a particular length is reached the cells simply die.
Now how will the change in speed/movement through a wormhole alter that??
2)As the actual time remained constant whether u are travelling at the speed of light or sitting on earth.
Objection by a member to quote 2
"No, time is not constant. That is the whole story in the movie. He aged, but time was moving slowly for him compared to that on earth. The closer you approach to the speed of light, the slower time will be. There is nothing as actual time. There is no concept of time for a hypothetical particle travelling at the speed of light."
My answer
3)Thats because of relative difference as say u are on jupiter where 10 earth years make 1 jupiter year so u will be only 10 years old there while on earth u will be 100 years old.
The same concept will apply if u travel at the speed of light with appropriate corrections of course although u cannot as ur mass will increase too according to einstein.
But the point is ageing.How does this alter the body??Do cells stop dividing?Or they divide at slower rate too??Because ageing=death of cells
My point is if we keep time as a reference on say another place like pluto or jupiter or another galaxy and then calculate it for both a man moving like mcconughey(hero) and another person on earth then the time will be same for the cells of body which brings me to the original question.
Why did he age?
Argument by a member
"When we go faster, cells will divide slower. Simple stuff."
My answer
4)No they won't dude.
Only the mode of calculation will be slower............not the division.
Time is not a biological concept.
On the other hand the radiation and adverse affects of absence of gravity might shorten the life of an astronaut due to adverse effects on the body
Argument by a member
Time is a physical concept, and every thing you do is in the realm of Physics, even biology, or chemistry or anything. The cells will experience time as normal, only the frame of reference will change. For someone on earth, their cells will seems to divide very slowly. But for someone within the same reference frame, time will be flowing at normal speed, and cells will be dividing at normal speed.
And the adversities in space is time independent, not in anyway related to the topic in hand.
My answer
5)Thats the problem........they will in actuality be dividing at same rate if we don't measure time by any means.
So why did he age??
Argument by another member
"
Yes, but I dont get it. When you inside the ship, time slows down (again wrt to earth, not of the person living on the ship).
Like they travel at around speed of light, and return to earth after some 2 yrs.
These scenario would happen:-
1) The age of crew remain same wrt each other.
2) There age grow much slower wrt to earth.
So, automatically when they return they would be in future.'
My answer
6)Thats relativity.
The cells of body divide according to the biological clock and not according to where we are in the space.
Another argument
"
Again biological clock is what? The time which is experienced by each and every atom inside your body is matter.
Your time never slows down ( if you dont have any other frame of reference to compare), you only able to experience time jump only after when you return to earth. If he able to spend 100yrs according to his ship time, then yes he aged and die too."
My answer
7)After each division of cell,the chromosomes become shorter or in more details the ends of a chromosome become shorter.
These ends are called telomers and after a particular length is reached,the cells simply die.
This is biological clock
This is disturbed in cancers as the cancer cells make an enzyme telomerase that prevents this shortening so cells donot die which leads to increase in the size of that particular part(layman language)
Another argument
"Yes you are totally correct, but when the physical clock slows down (wrt earth), then how the biological clock remain at same speed (wrt earth)? Isnt biological clock too slows down wrt earth?"
My answer
8)No it should not because cells have to divide at the same rate to replenish older cells.If it does not happen we will die even faster
For example the cells of skin,stomach,intestines etc have to keep on dividing at a fast rate to replace the dead cells due to physical damage or damage due to acid in stomach.Now this sort of damage will occur even in space or wormhole or whatever,,if not to a greater degree due to radiation.
The brain cells/neurons cannot even divide so after say a particular age the brain becomes slow.But in the movie mcconoughey(hero) did not show any of these things
Another argument
"You are confused the time on earth and with time on ship.
Take an example, you and me are sitting on that ship. We experience nothing like time travel, we say fck there is nothing like time travel, we experience like we are on earth. All the time we abusing the Einstein for his non sense theory.
Scenario 1:
We spent 100 yrs in ship which running with almost speed of light. And yes we get aged and get die without experiencing any time travel. We die abusing Einstein.
Scenario 2:
We spent 70yrs in ship and return to earth ( the ship was traveling with speed of light). But when we return, it almost 1000 yrs gone.
So, isnt our biological clock was slow wrt to earth. But our clock was same wrt ship, thats why we are aged and now 70+."
Answer
9)In physics yes but in biology no.
1)The cells will divide at same rate to replenish the older cells whether u are at earth,jupiter,worm hole or travelling at speed of light.(if the level of wear and tear remains same which won't as i explain later on)
After x number of divisions the cells will die so no more replication
This leads to decrease in replication=ageing starts to set in.
Now in space this process will only accelerate due to radiation which has adverse effect on our body cells>>>cells die faster>>>gets the cells to replicate even faster to replace dead cells>>>>>cells deplete faster>>>>u may actually die faster
Why will cells divide slower in actuality(not relatively wrt clock on earth due to physics of time) in an environment having 100's of times more radiation than earth and much more g forces leading to
more wear and tear of the body??
Another argument
"
Ohh, if you adding Radiation and g force ( which we experience nothing in space) in equation, then definitely our life expectancy get lower. Thats the risk have to take to astronaut.
But again with jus simple 2 yr or 10 yr travel, that doesnt matter much, after all these astronaut would be in future."
My answer
10)
Then he should age same as a person on earth if u eliminate the radiation etc.
Point is why did't he age at all------------------neither physically,nor mentally??
Another argument
"
Yes he spent 1 yr in this ship, so his cell too.
Why his cell divide at faster rate? He experiencing 1 yr in ship, how he experience 10 yrs mentally?"
My answer
11)Man he experienced 1 year in ship relative to earth's longer time which was used as a reference point in years.Even his age in the end was calculated according to earth's time.
And our cells divide at a particular rate too which is calculated according to earth's time and not spaceship's time.
In the end his age was 140 years(don't remember exactly,maybe 180) and not 40-41 years as we calculate age based on the-
Difference between time he left earth to time he came back+his age when he went on travel.
So we have to assume that cells were dividing for 100+ years too because according to a person on earth he returned after 100+ years
Argument
"Yes his age would be 140 yrs according to earth, but why his cell experience earth time during space travel, when he was not at all on earth all the time?"
Answer
12)Because cells don't have a concept of time,they will divide at a constant rate if conditions remain same.They divide in actuality and relativity has 0 bearing on them.
And in actuality he returned after 100+ years so he spent 100+ years in space according to earth's time.
Argument
"
Cells dont have concept of time? Time is not concept.
And yes they divide, according to the same time.
Scenario 1:
if you watching the cell divide from earth , then yes they divide at much slower rate.
Scenario 2:
if you watching the cell divide from the ship, then it seems normal, that they dividing at normal speed. But that doesnt means time on earth is of same as of ship."
Answer
13)Again u are talking physics.
The scenario is simple.
He spent 100+ years in space as he returned after that time.
The only explanation for this would be if cells divide slowly vs earth's standards which cannot be or he will die even faster as i explained earlier.
It does not matter what looked from earth,the only thing that matters is that he returned after 100+ years.His own memory of time will be 1 year due to physics but in actuality wrt earth he returned after 100+ years.And life is calculated according to earth years in the first place.
Now why did he perceive time to be 1 year??
Due to factors like
1)increased speed
2)travelling through a wormhole,around a wormhole
3)Around a much much bigger orbit
But he did return after 100+ years didn't he??
Argument
"What what.. if he spent 100 yrs in space, then how his memory is of 1 yr?"
Answer
14)
Thats 1 year relative to earth's orbit/earth's time.
As explained in actuality which is earth's time for us based on which calculations were made in movie he returned after 100+ years.
Because cells divide at the same rate.
Does not mattehttps://defence.pk/forums/members-club.30/create-threadr what u experience..................they just have a constant division rate.And after x divisions they simply die.Because thats how the body's dna has been programmed.
And our hero returned after 100+ years wrt earth's time so he must have had 100+ years worth of cell division.
From the thread
the computing and related technologies thread | Page 5
