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Why India Uses Afghanistan as Pawn?

you talk as if pakistan have some superhuman powers to influence people and are a great imperial power.

Pakistan may not be a great power but religion is an extremely powerful brainwashing tool. I don't only blame Pakistan for the Taliban, certainly the US played a great role. However the Taliban ideology was promoted by the Pakistani state in Afghanistan in the 90s, this is an undisputed fact. The taliban was recognized by just two nations, one was Saudi Arabia, guess the other?

the taliban came from afghanistan and the remnents of the western created mujhadeen, not the isi.

a whole army of fanatics were created and all of a sudden they had no war - so they took control of a nation in the way they know best, its that simple.

No it isnt. The Taliban would not have existed for more than a couple of years if not for Pakistani support. The northern alliance would have overrun them. Say all if you want about Indian-Russian covert support to the warlords of the northern alliance, but i rather live in a country run by secular quasi socialists rather than by medieval conservatives.

who is this we? the millions of impoverished in india chose to help the afghans instead of feed themselves?

oh i get it, they must be fasting, right?

Indian poverty is a strawman argument, Pakistan is a poorer nation than India and yet it has also pledged monetary support. You can talk about your "blood ties" but we have something far greater - Humanism. Just because we have poor people does not mean we should not help other nations, one is not at the cost of the other.
 
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distant relation i think not

pakistan has absorbed millions of afghans, let alone the many pathans who have relatives on both sides of the borders - this is what you call blood relations, this is what you call a bond.

Right and we absorbed millions of Bangladeshis of Pakistani origins....

Are we brothers all of a sudden?.....
Also, arent these the same Pathans (Afghans) that are blowing up your institutions daily?......Brotherly love at its best....reminds me of Aurangzeb.....
 
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yes well done, but somehow still you seem happy to gloat how this money is being taken out of a poor indians life and into an afghanistan, a distant nation - i just dont get it, its as if you are happy about this neglegence :what:

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------



i have no idea what you are talking about mate - what russians?:pop:

Read the thread , posted for ur benefit.
 
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yes well done, but somehow still you seem happy to gloat how this money is being taken out of a poor indians life and into an afghanistan, a distant nation - i just dont get it, its as if you are happy about this neglegence :what:

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------



i have no idea what you are talking about mate - what russians?:pop:

This russians.
Russia Invades Afghanistan—Again

Moscow is lending a hand on the fight against the Afghan drug trade—but its cooperation comes with a price.

For Viktor Ivanov, the road back to Kabul has taken two decades. He first arrived in Afghanistan in 1987 as a young KGB officer, back when the country was the southernmost outpost of the Soviet empire. When he returned last month, Kabul was the outpost of a very different empire—one run by reluctant imperialists in Washington keen to get out as soon as possible. Though the official reason for Ivanov's return was to aid U.S. antinarcotics efforts—he's now Russia's drug czar—his real goal in Afghanistan was clear: to help recover some of Russia's lost influence there. As his Russian Air Force plane began its descent into the Kabul airport, Ivanov raised a glass of champagne with his aides and boasted, "Russia is back."

A lot of history stands in the way of Russia's new campaign. Local memories of the destruction wrought by the Soviets in their decade-long occupation remain fresh. But both the Afghans and the Americans have reasons to welcome Russia's reengagement. No one has a silver bullet for Afghanistan's rampaging drug trade, but with its vast intelligence assets across Central Asia and an operational group of Russian troops on the Afghan-Tajik border, Moscow could make a real difference. To win over the locals, the Russians have also offered to ramp up their involvement in the Afghan reconstruction, energy, and mineral sectors. Russian companies are currently negotiating to rebuild 142 Soviet-built installations across the country, including a $500 million deal to reconstruct hydroelectric plants in Naglu, Surobi, and Makhipar and a $500 million program to build wells and irrigation systems nationwide. Rosneft, the Russian state-owned oil and gas giant, has commissioned a study of gas fields in Djarkuduk and Shebarghan that could lead to contracts yielding $350 million a year. Russian air-transport contractors are already working for NATO and the Afghan government. But all this cooperation comes with a price: increased Russian influence in Kabul. Moscow makes no bones about this: it seeks nothing less than to "reclaim its geopolitical share of Afghanistan," says its ambassador, Andrey Avetisyan.

It might seem surprising, given Afghanistan's history as a Cold War battleground, that it's the Americans who invited the Russians back in. But sure enough, last year U.S. President Barack Obama and his Russian counterpart, Dmitry Medvedev, set up a series of contact groups on mutual security interests in the region. Ivanov and his U.S. counterpart, Gil Kerlikowske, have since sat down on many occasions to figure out ways Russia can help NATO choke off the Taliban's drug businesses.

The Russians have good reason to help. More than 130,000 Russians die each year of heroin addiction and its side effects, and about 120,000 more are jailed for drug-related crimes. Russia is the conduit for some $18 billion of heroin a year, making it both the biggest consumer and biggest transit country in the world. "It is useless to fight it inside our borders," says Ivanov. "We need to fight the problem at its root."

Unlike in 1979, that won't mean sending Russian troops to Afghanistan. But Moscow is working to provide something almost as potent: crucial intelligence on drug traffic throughout Central Asia, where Russia's Federal Security Service still maintains an excellent network of eyes and ears. Russia is also pushing Afghanistan's neighbors hard to pick up the pace on drug-enforcement efforts. Moscow, along with Beijing, leads the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), a regional security bloc that includes all Central Asian states. Beefing up border security has been one of SCO's top priorities, with Russia contributing money, equipment, and training. The SCO won't be able to cut off the Taliban's drug routes via Iran and Pakistan. And Kabul will still have to tackle the problem of rampant corruption in its Interior Ministry and the police, who are responsible for more opium traffic than the Taliban. But Chris Chamber, a NATO spokesman, says that Russia's intelligence and regional influence will be crucial to the fight.

Still, Russia's ambitions in Afghanistan go far beyond the drug war, and include building a pro-Russian constituency among the country's elite, dominating Afghanistan's multibillion-dollar infrastructure-development industry, and exploiting its underground wealth. "It is not too late. We are determined to activate our business cooperation with Afghanistan. Russia is first of all interested in exploiting Afghan gas and mineral resources," says Avetisyan, the Russian ambassador.

To access these riches, Russia has been courting Afghan Vice President Karim Khalili—a leader of the country's persecuted Hazara community who Moscow hopes will act as Russia's chief lobbyist in Kabul. At a meeting with Khalili in March, Ivanov offered to aid Japanese efforts to restore the huge Buddha statues destroyed by the Taliban in 1999 in Banyan, Khalili's power base, and to develop tourism there, as well as to reconstruct a power station and a nearby tunnel that links north and south Afghanistan.

Russia also has a huge number of potential allies among Afghanistan's former communists, many of whom studied and lived in Russia in the 1980s. Some of these approximately 100,000 educated Afghans joined the mujahedin after the fall of Moscow's puppet Mohammad Najibullah in 1992 and are now powerful men in Afghan President Hamid Karzai's administration. Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum, for example, a onetime officer in Najibullah's military, now rules a personal fiefdom in the north of the country and is an adviser to the chief of staff of the Afghan National Army.


Other communists who fled after Najibullah was toppled returned after the fall of the Taliban. Many found important jobs in the new resource-starved government, as they tended to be better trained and educated than the Islamist mujahedin. One former senior European diplomat in Kabul says that, though the communists were unwanted at first, they quickly became the building blocks of the Karzai regime. "Thank God at last we have some professionals, even if they were trained and educated in Moscow," the diplomat says. Statistics are hard to come by, but according to a top Afghan police officer and a former communist head of the Afghan Army, between 50 and 70 percent of all staff positions in the Ministries of Interior and Defense are now held by ex-communists. Russia plans to reach out to these people by sponsoring cultural programs in Kabul and by bringing in some of the 100,000 Afghan exiles living in Russia to help lobby them.

Russians in Kabul are eager to take advantage of such links—one Russian diplomat complained that he's fed up with watching foreigners line up "to get a bite of the Afghan pie when it could have been us." To help turn things around, 19 Russian business leaders will arrive in the capital in early May to talk about energy, rebuilding, transport, and logistics.

The Russians say their aim is simply to help make Afghanistan rich. "The Soviets did not just fight. Soviet scientists also made maps of all Afghanistan's resources," says Avetisyan. On his recent trip, Ivanov brought such maps with him and, during a meeting with Karzai, talked about gas, copper, and aluminum exploitation. Ivanov also made it clear to Khalili that Russia was ready to strike deals on "favorable terms." The Russians will face an uphill battle with the Chinese, who got into the country ahead of them—two years ago, the China Metallurgical Group bought one of the world's largest copper mines in Logar, south of Kabul, and it has promised to invest $3 billion in the project. But Moscow is reported to be eyeing the Hajigak iron mine, currently on sale for about $1.8 billion, and Russians say they may be ready to sign a deal during a Russian-Afghan forum in Kabul this July.

So far, such moves seem to elicit more relief than concern in Washington. The Obama administration has taken a big gamble with its surge, and everything is being done with an eye to July 2011, when the administration has promised to begin its withdrawal. For that to happen, Afghanistan's neighbors must shoulder more and more of the burden of helping fix its drug and infrastructure problems. If that means Afghanistan moving closer to Russia's orbit, then Washington, at least for now, seems to deem that a price worth paying. "The United States is not concerned about Russia coming back," says Anthony Cordesman, a respected analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. If history is any guide, having Afghanistan in Russia's sphere of influence would be far from ideal—but it would also be preferable to having it go it alone and spread violent mayhem across the region and the world.

With Ron Moreau and Sami Yousafzai in Kabul



It would be interesting how the whole thing plays out vis-a-vis Indian influence in Afghanistan along with that of a new entrant- albeit with old ties - Russia, compounded with the fact that both India and Russia were allies helping the NA, whose very officers are now a major part of Afghanistan's government
 
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yes well done, but somehow still you seem happy to gloat how this money is being taken out of a poor indians life and into an afghanistan, a distant nation - i just dont get it, its as if you are happy about this neglegence :what:


I will take an attempt to stop being snarky and explain my point to you....and I suggest you stop digressing as well.....

The "poor" Indians are important to us, but unless and until we are able to expand our economy and create jobs, we will not be able to lift these folks out of poverty....
Apart from the strategic benefit of investing in afg, it also serves as a major market for our goods.....creating goodwill allows us to expand our operations through Afg into CAR.....This will help our economy as well as give us goodwill with an important/traditional ally.....

Now what is wrong with that?
 
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However the Taliban ideology was promoted by the Pakistani state in Afghanistan in the 90s, this is an undisputed fact


says who?

it started in afghanistan, and was started BY afghans - they had popular support amongst the pashtuns

for pakistan it was a means to an end - for the west it was nothing more than unwanted goods.

i mean if you are going down the path that the ISI hatched a grand plot to be overlords of afghanistan then you are going into the land of fiction.


afghans are responsible for their own fate to an extent, the west who used afghanistan as a war ground also have responsibility - pakistan were left with a mess, like i said a means to an end.

The northern alliance would have overrun them.

err says who?

it was the mujhadeen who had the weapons and were the war hardened veterans, they were the big boys in town at that time.
 
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Read the thread , posted for ur benefit.

since you have asked me so many times i will read this article when i have a minute, i just hope that russia have not invaded afghanistan by the time i have finished it.
 
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I will take an attempt to stop being snarky and explain my point to you....and I suggest you stop digressing as well.....

The "poor" Indians are important to us, but unless and until we are able to expand our economy and create jobs, we will not be able to lift these folks out of poverty....
Apart from the strategic benefit of investing in afg, it also serves as a major market for our goods.....creating goodwill allows us to expand our operations through Afg into CAR.....This will help our economy as well as give us goodwill with an important/traditional ally.....

Now what is wrong with that?




err you could spend those billions of pounds investing in your own economy to make the poor more wealthy and create jobs, its in no way dependent on donating billions to afghans.

and trade opportunities with afghanistan are likely to go through pakistan anyway, afghanistan is hardly a "major market"
 
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err you could spend those billions of pounds investing in your own economy to make the poor more wealthy and create jobs, its in no way dependent on donating billions to afghans.

and trade opportunities with afghanistan are likely to go through pakistan anyway, afghanistan is hardly a "major market"

Uhh....do I have to take you through the basics maiser?......

We are investing in roads and other developmental projects......case and point, Zaranj-Delaram Highway, connecting to the Iranian port of Chahabar.....
By using these developments as strategic assets, we plan to access Afg and CAR as potential markets for our goods....
This is an investment.....just not direct....Goodwill goes a long way....Trust me, read this book called the "Economic Hitman" by John Perkins and you will get an idea of how countries have been using development as an incentive to invest in the resources of a nation......Though the book is an extreme case, it will help you guage into the situation....

Explain to me......Are you clear on why exactly China is developing Gwadar, funding the roads and other developments in P-O-K>?
If you understand the above then you know the incentive India has in developing Afghanistan.....
Please dont pretend to be thick....
 
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most of them will be recovered dead from pak-afghan border.And india will deny them as there people and declare them as mongoloid uzbeks.Shame

sir i am new to this forum ...but ...what would you like to say about those pakistani soldiers who died in kargil war.. and GOP had refused to accept them as pak army men!!
please dont say such type of foolish comments
thanx!
 
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Who says we're 'using' Afghanistan for anything? We're trying to build a strategic relationship with the country and it is but natural for Pakistanis to assume that it is directed against them, notwithstanding the lack of evidence of course.

India has so far restricted its presence in Afghanistan to solely developmental work, we have built roads, power plants, hospitals and even their parliament building. Even after numerous attacks, we're only sending 40 additional commandos to protect our citizens in the country. Besides, why would we risk sending in saboteurs from Afghanistan and tarnish our global image when we could easily send them in from our side?

Why you sound defensive?
 
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err you could spend those billions of pounds investing in your own economy to make the poor more wealthy and create jobs, its in no way dependent on donating billions to afghans.

and trade opportunities with afghanistan are likely to go through pakistan anyway, afghanistan is hardly a "major market"

The Indian government's biggest stake in Afghanistan is to restore normalcy for the sake of our own security. We spent an entire thread on the what are the basic necessities of human beings and while all that you say is true, it will be meaningless if Afghanistan plunges back into the Medieval age a la under the Taliban. At the risk of kick-starting a debate on the lacunae in Indian infrastructure, and the "growing" Maoist menace, we do need to invest where we see long term security benefits.

Besides, most of India's problems are not the lack of resources, but inefficient distribution. While that needs to be addressed, that does not mean we can't utilize our resources for other projects. For example, millions in our country die of starvation yet we donate food to countries when there is a natural disaster. The reason is that we have surplus food sitting in warehouses which will rot away thanks to inefficient/non-existent transportation mechanisms. That needs to be addressed, but while that is happening, nothing prevents us from donating what we have to the ones in immediate need.

And any country can become a big market if peace and normalcy is present. Pakistan has much more resource consumption than Afghanistan but is not looked at as a "big market". That is because of the security situation. Once that is under control, you will see foreign companies invest in your country again.
 
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Sri lankan, please dont use blog posts.. especially regarding issues as inflamable as these.
 
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Coming back to topic,

everyone is a pawn/puppet in this game except USA, Russia and China.

For example, India takes orders from USA. Indians will not cross borders to attack terror camps in P0K unless its approved from Washington. Before doing any such thing, Indians will first take permission from USA.
 
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