Why India Shouldn’t Underestimate the Pakistani Air Force’s JF-17 Thunder

[CHI RULES]

Should JF-17 add CX-1 hypersonic cruise missile to engage targets in India? When IAF failed few days ago, reportedly India moved to Brahmose to hit targets in Pakistan. Having a similar missile on JF-17 will penetrated through missile defence systems and destroy strategic targets back in India.

What do you guys think ?

Sir can JF17 carry such heavy weight missile, may be experts should be asked.

You just give away the production costs of Rafale! Your selling price is more than 200% or is it 300% of your production cost. That is huge profits you earn from the Indians.

Sir Indian deal is not only for jets it also includes, Ammos, Training, Maintenance, and major sum shall be returned in the form of assembling within India. Further in future the cost shall be much lower as India will not settle with only 36 but they will shall go for 100+ of them. The deal has nothing wrong if finances support, Pak is also searching for new jets after no chances of upgrades of F16 or to get concessional F16s in future.

The Pak members should thank Allah Almighty that even with inferior tech on paper and limited resources we are surviving against India/Israel nexus.
Further we should not use the abusive language/taunts at least against Hindu religion. We also have thousands of Hindus living in Pakistan and they are ready to sacrifice their lives for country.

 

[RealNapster]

What a load of crap. According to the French senate (Most credible source),the cost of production of a single Rafale was as follow ;

Rafale M : €78M
Rafale B : €73M
Rafale C : €68M

1. Usually costs are mentioned in Flyaway form.
2. Doesn’t matter how much it coat you. What you charge for it, matters.

I googled this and found plenty of indian sources saying

Source for 2nd screnshot is here . You can find plenty of other sources. Just google the damn thing.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...ssing-of-july-target/articleshow/48288656.cms

 

[Beast]

You just give away supposedly confidential(?) information on the production costs of Rafale! Your selling price is more than 200% or is it 300% of your production cost. That is huge profits you earn from the Indians.

Edit: Looks like you meant acquisition cost of French Airforce. Acquisition cost for the customer = production cost + profits for the manufacturer.

India is paying €7.8 billion for 36 Rafale, or €216.67 million each inclusive of spare and training I presume. Edit: inclusive of weapons like meteor missile.

French shall double it to 14billion

 

[Khanivore]

Now they are going for Rafale, so what happened to Modi “MAKE IN INDIA” slogan near elections

After Sarji Kal Strike 2.0, it's now FAKE IN INDIA.

 

[blackuday]

The Pakistani Air Force’s JF-17 Thunder single engine light fighter played a key role in clashes with the Indian Air Force in late February 2019, and were responsible for both of the service’s claimed air to air kills against Indian aircraft. The Pakistani military currently deploys two major variants of the fighter, the Block I variant which entered service from 2007 and the Block II variant which entered production in 2013. Approximately 25 Block II variants of the JF-17 are currently being manufactured in Pakistan annually, with plans to terminate production in favour of the upcoming JF-17 Block III in the early 2020s. A twin seat variant of the Block II fighter, the JF-17B, entered service in December 2017. Single engine variants, however, compromise the vast majority of the fleet at present.

JF-17B Twin Engine Fighter




Much like the Indian MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded variant of the venerated design which according to Indian reports was highly successful against a Pakistani F-16 - likely due to its high end avionics, electronic warfare, jamming and missile systems which are all of the fourth generation, the JF-17 has long been underestimated for a number of reasons. The airframe is loosely based on that of the MiG-21 - an evolution of the Chinese J-7 design - but is considerably more capable than that of any other variant or derivative. The fighter’s engines produce little over half the thrust of the Indian Air Force’s MiG-29 - one third that of the elite Su-30MKI - giving it an inferior thrust/weight ratio when fully armed. These are compensated for by a number of factors, including its access to state of the art sensors and munitions - including the Chinese PL-12 long range air to air missile - an analogue to the American AIM-120C - and the YJ-12 anti ship cruise missile. The latter makes the aircraft a potentially highly lethal ship hunter, in some ways comparable to India's Brahmos cruise missile, and its deployment is an effective asymmetric asset against the large Indian surface fleet.

JF-17 with YJ-12 Anti Ship Cruise Missiles




The JF-17 is relatively simple both to operate and maintain, far moreso that the F-16 or MiG-29, and the costs of doing so are also extremely low. The while the aircraft is slower and less manoeuvrable than the F-16, it compensates with a higher altitude and arguably far superior options for its weapons loadout. Block II variants deploy data links and high end electronic capabilities which early F-16 and MiG-29 variants both lacked, while their avionics are also considerably more sophisticated. The fighters’ NRIET KLJ-7 X band fire control radars are also highly capable - variants of the Chengdu J-10’s formidable KLJ-10 - and are capable of tracking up to ten targets at ranges of over 105km. Data links allow the aircraft to potentially make use of longer ranged munitions, particularly when operating alongside AWACS platforms capable of guiding missiles beyond the range of the fighters’ onboard radars. As a key strength of the JF-17 is its compatibility with high end Chinese munitions, it is highly possible that Block II variants could in future receive longer range munitions which would benefit from such guidance - with more advanced variants of the PL-12 reportedly also planned for deployment by the upcoming JF-17 Block III.

Pakistani Air Force JF-17 Fighter with PL-12 Air to Air Missiles





Ultimately the JF-17 remains a highly capable fourth generation fighter - more than a match for India’s MiG-21 and Mirage 2000 single engine light fighters and potentially capable of posing a threat to medium weight platforms such as the MiG-29 and Rafale - though likely still struggling against the Su-30MKI. The design is set to be enhanced considerably in the near future with the induction of the Block III variant, which will reportedly deploy a new radar, an infra red search and tracking system (IRST), helmet mounted display, new electronic warfare and jamming systems, and potentially even PL-15 air to air missiles - which considerably outrange anything currently in the Indian arsenal.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...imate-the-pakistani-air-force-s-jf-17-thunder

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Let them underestimate it. Good for us.
I hope they continue to make rants about junks & blah blah..... While we continue to upgrade it and make it more potent fighter.
Jf17 is best thing happened to Pakistan. In such limited budget, it is performing above than our expectation. Good thing is it is open structure we can make changes according to our requirements.
Can't wait for block III and then Block IV with more powerful engine , AESA, IRST.
PL15 Missiles, AKG400, Integration of Raad cruise missile.

 

[Sine Nomine]

It's a pure piece of Junk,how possibly Madarssah graduates from Pakistan and copy caters from China can make anything better then super power of East.
Indians don't need to fear that piece of junk,even their HJT-36 Sitara is better then this,so chill.

 

[Yaseen1]

jf17 is not good jet without bvr in china shaheen excercse j11 locked Paf jf17 in close combat so for block 3 its design needs to be totally changed to increase its maneuverability to make it credible future jet in close air combats

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

The Pakistani Air Force’s JF-17 Thunder single engine light fighter played a key role in clashes with the Indian Air Force in late February 2019, and were responsible for both of the service’s claimed air to air kills against Indian aircraft. The Pakistani military currently deploys two major variants of the fighter, the Block I variant which entered service from 2007 and the Block II variant which entered production in 2013. Approximately 25 Block II variants of the JF-17 are currently being manufactured in Pakistan annually, with plans to terminate production in favour of the upcoming JF-17 Block III in the early 2020s. A twin seat variant of the Block II fighter, the JF-17B, entered service in December 2017. Single engine variants, however, compromise the vast majority of the fleet at present.

JF-17B Twin Engine Fighter




Much like the Indian MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded variant of the venerated design which according to Indian reports was highly successful against a Pakistani F-16 - likely due to its high end avionics, electronic warfare, jamming and missile systems which are all of the fourth generation, the JF-17 has long been underestimated for a number of reasons. The airframe is loosely based on that of the MiG-21 - an evolution of the Chinese J-7 design - but is considerably more capable than that of any other variant or derivative. The fighter’s engines produce little over half the thrust of the Indian Air Force’s MiG-29 - one third that of the elite Su-30MKI - giving it an inferior thrust/weight ratio when fully armed. These are compensated for by a number of factors, including its access to state of the art sensors and munitions - including the Chinese PL-12 long range air to air missile - an analogue to the American AIM-120C - and the YJ-12 anti ship cruise missile. The latter makes the aircraft a potentially highly lethal ship hunter, in some ways comparable to India's Brahmos cruise missile, and its deployment is an effective asymmetric asset against the large Indian surface fleet.

JF-17 with YJ-12 Anti Ship Cruise Missiles




The JF-17 is relatively simple both to operate and maintain, far moreso that the F-16 or MiG-29, and the costs of doing so are also extremely low. The while the aircraft is slower and less manoeuvrable than the F-16, it compensates with a higher altitude and arguably far superior options for its weapons loadout. Block II variants deploy data links and high end electronic capabilities which early F-16 and MiG-29 variants both lacked, while their avionics are also considerably more sophisticated. The fighters’ NRIET KLJ-7 X band fire control radars are also highly capable - variants of the Chengdu J-10’s formidable KLJ-10 - and are capable of tracking up to ten targets at ranges of over 105km. Data links allow the aircraft to potentially make use of longer ranged munitions, particularly when operating alongside AWACS platforms capable of guiding missiles beyond the range of the fighters’ onboard radars. As a key strength of the JF-17 is its compatibility with high end Chinese munitions, it is highly possible that Block II variants could in future receive longer range munitions which would benefit from such guidance - with more advanced variants of the PL-12 reportedly also planned for deployment by the upcoming JF-17 Block III.

Pakistani Air Force JF-17 Fighter with PL-12 Air to Air Missiles





Ultimately the JF-17 remains a highly capable fourth generation fighter - more than a match for India’s MiG-21 and Mirage 2000 single engine light fighters and potentially capable of posing a threat to medium weight platforms such as the MiG-29 and Rafale - though likely still struggling against the Su-30MKI. The design is set to be enhanced considerably in the near future with the induction of the Block III variant, which will reportedly deploy a new radar, an infra red search and tracking system (IRST), helmet mounted display, new electronic warfare and jamming systems, and potentially even PL-15 air to air missiles - which considerably outrange anything currently in the Indian arsenal.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...imate-the-pakistani-air-force-s-jf-17-thunder

indians under estimate everything about Pakistan.

india thinks they are rightful heirs of Indian sub continent after British left india in 1947 . for us we are the heirs of south Asian Sub continent. we are the Children of Mughal Rulers our Forefathers Ruled All of india and Burma for nearly 1000 years.

India over estimates itself while they hold no Right to Mughal Empire or South Asian union States.

 

[Mrc]

jf17 is not good jet without bvr in china shaheen excercse j11 locked Paf jf17 in close combat so for block 3 its design needs to be totally changed to increase its maneuverability to make it credible future jet in close air combats

Did u see it performing today????

Excercises have variety of results due to various scenarios played....

Idea is to make mistakes so you dont repeat them in real life


By the way future is BVR... Dog fights are pretty much past

 

[Imran Khan]

Block 3 will be true game changer in region

 

[Mrc]

The Pakistani Air Force’s JF-17 Thunder single engine light fighter played a key role in clashes with the Indian Air Force in late February 2019, and were responsible for both of the service’s claimed air to air kills against Indian aircraft. The Pakistani military currently deploys two major variants of the fighter, the Block I variant which entered service from 2007 and the Block II variant which entered production in 2013. Approximately 25 Block II variants of the JF-17 are currently being manufactured in Pakistan annually, with plans to terminate production in favour of the upcoming JF-17 Block III in the early 2020s. A twin seat variant of the Block II fighter, the JF-17B, entered service in December 2017. Single engine variants, however, compromise the vast majority of the fleet at present.

JF-17B Twin Engine Fighter




Much like the Indian MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded variant of the venerated design which according to Indian reports was highly successful against a Pakistani F-16 - likely due to its high end avionics, electronic warfare, jamming and missile systems which are all of the fourth generation, the JF-17 has long been underestimated for a number of reasons. The airframe is loosely based on that of the MiG-21 - an evolution of the Chinese J-7 design - but is considerably more capable than that of any other variant or derivative. The fighter’s engines produce little over half the thrust of the Indian Air Force’s MiG-29 - one third that of the elite Su-30MKI - giving it an inferior thrust/weight ratio when fully armed. These are compensated for by a number of factors, including its access to state of the art sensors and munitions - including the Chinese PL-12 long range air to air missile - an analogue to the American AIM-120C - and the YJ-12 anti ship cruise missile. The latter makes the aircraft a potentially highly lethal ship hunter, in some ways comparable to India's Brahmos cruise missile, and its deployment is an effective asymmetric asset against the large Indian surface fleet.

JF-17 with YJ-12 Anti Ship Cruise Missiles




The JF-17 is relatively simple both to operate and maintain, far moreso that the F-16 or MiG-29, and the costs of doing so are also extremely low. The while the aircraft is slower and less manoeuvrable than the F-16, it compensates with a higher altitude and arguably far superior options for its weapons loadout. Block II variants deploy data links and high end electronic capabilities which early F-16 and MiG-29 variants both lacked, while their avionics are also considerably more sophisticated. The fighters’ NRIET KLJ-7 X band fire control radars are also highly capable - variants of the Chengdu J-10’s formidable KLJ-10 - and are capable of tracking up to ten targets at ranges of over 105km. Data links allow the aircraft to potentially make use of longer ranged munitions, particularly when operating alongside AWACS platforms capable of guiding missiles beyond the range of the fighters’ onboard radars. As a key strength of the JF-17 is its compatibility with high end Chinese munitions, it is highly possible that Block II variants could in future receive longer range munitions which would benefit from such guidance - with more advanced variants of the PL-12 reportedly also planned for deployment by the upcoming JF-17 Block III.

Pakistani Air Force JF-17 Fighter with PL-12 Air to Air Missiles





Ultimately the JF-17 remains a highly capable fourth generation fighter - more than a match for India’s MiG-21 and Mirage 2000 single engine light fighters and potentially capable of posing a threat to medium weight platforms such as the MiG-29 and Rafale - though likely still struggling against the Su-30MKI. The design is set to be enhanced considerably in the near future with the induction of the Block III variant, which will reportedly deploy a new radar, an infra red search and tracking system (IRST), helmet mounted display, new electronic warfare and jamming systems, and potentially even PL-15 air to air missiles - which considerably outrange anything currently in the Indian arsenal.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...imate-the-pakistani-air-force-s-jf-17-thunder

Article seems to be written by a 5 years old

 

[waqasmwi]

The last news we heard about induction of JF17 in PAF inventory was in Feb2018. No updates since than. Why?

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

You can say that yes .

But what if i put it this way.
If u dont have option to have both:
A) better weapons
B) better soldiers

Which option would you pick if you cant have both. Thank God pakistan has option of both in many branches.

I would go for better soldiers any time.

But better weapon cant be disregarded - like if you have BVR and the enemy don´t. Then the enemy can have the best dog fighter pilot but wouldn´t be of any use. BUT if u have a intelligent dog fighter pilot without BVR and the enemy has then u use tactics to get in a position where your get into a favorable position. And hence i would go for better soldiers.

 

[araz]

exactly thats the point its in sky but you dont see it!!

vedas thought these might aryans about special power of leopard piss and how tejas coated with this invincible weapon make them invisible in sky!!

Naa.Modi and Mukesh Ambani took commission and supplied Goat urine mascaraded as Leopard stuff. Project failed due to lack of authentic stuff.
A